GW Document: Spring - #57


From Book Chameleon #57 thai

Thai's Gnostick Works inspire the World.
"Eitht & ninety rules of Art" impearled!

   Burn the Brush; surpass thyseld, advance!
   Patient, cross the HO with temperance.
   Prolong by Heaven & Earth their ordinance.
   Adored with feathers from Heart's burning Core!
   Here & everywhere, now & for evermore!
   The wall has fallen -- yellow shells galore!












.........................................................................................................

then about thinking and logic ...

.............




.................................................

Seth:  Thing about thought is,  it breaks these so called 3 laws all the time ... that is its very nature ... and the only way it can correct itself ... and/or discover
 

For example, when thought discovers that A =/= A, yet still and all A must == A, then thought just goes in pursuit of a better "A"
 .

Tags

  1. thinking
  2. logic
  3. gw
  4. item 17289
  5. 3 laws

Comments


Seth says
Einai 2014-04-15 11:15:10 17289
All you have to do to get a bigger picture is to right click & view it & use ctrl + to enlarge or ctrl 0 to go back to neutral size.

yep knew that.  this here is called visual focus.  everything right there in front of you ... no shifting necessary.

Seth says




... er, get the connection?




Seth says
Einai 2014-04-15 12:23:40 17289
Yep, you have a problem with truth & logic so can't help you there.
(**)


... or maybe you have a problem with me ... seems so, eh ... because you are always changing the topic back to me. 

Is there any chance you will ever notice what you continually keep doing here?

Seth says
some Facebook discussion here.

Seth says
seth 2014-04-16 08:06:33 17289
source: mark
Wiggly tities is a pattern interrupt of a stream of consciousness going nowhere faster & faster.
Enjoy - might see one soon!

... ok.   so maybe get us back on track.   personally i doubt that we want to be ... er, arguing ... over ways to think badly ... and, when all the confusion is clarified, i doubt that we would even disagree.

i thought you wanted to tie in what GW was talking about before he started talking about following his three laws of thought.   That might be a more fertile ground to discover something new. Eh?


There may be more to discover here ... could you provide the url of GW's original document?

Seth says
Einai 2014-04-15 11:56:31 17289
seth 2014-04-15 11:41:06 17289
Einai 2014-04-15 11:34:03 17289
seth 2014-04-15 11:31:32 17289
Einai 2014-04-15 11:28:09 17289
Except you removed the surrounding context which was the entire page which ALL fit together.


i'm sure it did ... i read it all ... can you tie the first part and this part together for me?
Really, you can't ?
Must be the desire to joust a windmill or something messing something up there [see:item 17287]


wow , not all this stuff abut me Mark, please please please .

Can tie in GW first part and this part about the laws of though in your own words?  ... so we can both move along about the elephant itself
Not going to read it back to you .. do your own work; no elephant anywhere to be found. The main clue is in the beginning, not shown in your shift of focus for some purpose, he talks about thinking, feeling & willing.  The logic he puts in the context to help thinking discover truth.


Incidentally I did read the first part and i do get strings of attachement to GW's view on logic .... the interesting part is how those strings get attached ... the way i attach them is all different than does he ... and/or how you would.  Just using his words directly does not get to any real edges here ... i wanted to see if we could bring it all current.  Just thinking his sentences will not do that. 

Seth says
Calling a thing recognized with a word or term or some other symbol or sign is also part of thinking.  It is almost where it starts.  That is almost GW's first law of thought.  Identifying a thing with a symbol ... then henceforth using always the same symbol for the same thing.

That is also why associating a thing with a symbol is important.  It is associating things with things that they are not that corrupts thinking and ...er, even breaks the first law of practical thinking.  For example associating me with a wiggling titty nipple, might be a lot of fun, but whatever it is, it is not practical thinking.

Seth says
Einai 2014-04-16 07:46:22 17289
If it doesn't matter what they are called how does one expect to be talking about the same thing as another?
zzz...

Well exactly .   All i am saying there is that as long as we keep our terms straight as to what we call a thing, and/or get the translations right from one person or language to another, then we can still think clearly about those things ... even between quite diverse languages.

Seth says
Einai 2014-04-16 07:31:13 17289
seth 2014-04-16 07:12:06 17289
seth 2014-04-16 07:03:30 17294
Einai 2014-04-16 06:54:57 17289
Don't confuse thinking with stream of consciousness. Any shit can show up in your stream of consciousness - doesn't prove much besides you may be conscious & a stream of stuff is going by.



Well good point.  But it is a matter of what you call "thinking".  Apparently there are different kinds.  Even practical thinking which is bound to some reality is "stream of consciousness".  I think the difference is like the difference between a good book and pulp fiction ... both are books. 
[] Memory, mixed with emotions, mixed with stream of consciousness including scratching one's ass - etc.  is not thinking to me; results may vary.
Soul activity varies all over the map, but directed focus of thoughts & ideas describes thinking better. Of course if one lets anything direct it - maybe not!


Yep everything mixes together ... even "" about something.   thing is i can usually watch how i am functiioning ... and call one thing a feeling, another thing a deed, and yet another one a thought.  It is relatively simple to distinguish, especially when the thought gets voiced.  Pre-voiced thoughts are a bit harder to distinguish.

But in a way it does not really matter what we call these things ... we can still talk about them and think about them.  if you want to use the word "thinking" only to refer to what i call "practical thinking" then what difference does it make?  None!  Just as long as we don't get confused between us as to what we are talking about.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-04-16 11:34:12 17289
seth 2014-04-16 08:06:33 17289
source: mark
Wiggly tities is a pattern interrupt of a stream of consciousness going nowhere faster & faster.
Enjoy - might see one soon!

... ok.   so maybe get us back on track.   personally i doubt that we want to be ... er, arguing ... over ways to think badly ... and, when all the confusion is clarified, i doubt that we would even disagree.

i thought you wanted to tie in what GW was talking about before he started talking about following his three laws of thought.   That might be a more fertile ground to discover something new. Eh?


There may be more to discover here ... could you provide the url of GW's original document?
The pointers on the WebBrain are here.  I got a couple of aha's even though I read it before to maket he WebBrain etc. I also liked the fact that he related hex #57 to Spring.  I think it speaks for itself & needs no further discussion. If you get something from it kewl!


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-04-16 15:28:19 17289
source: mark
The essence of Spring is Flourishing not dissolution, but hey, eh? To each his own. The rest you are on your own.  BTW, the Webbrain also, if you clicked on the Analysis link above the reference to #57 gives more hexes with relevant comment to explore.

... Well i totally agree Spring is flourishing and not dissolution.   Where did you get "dissolution" ... not out of my lips.  But seems to me that with any flourishing there would also be dissolution ... the dissolution of the binds that kept the spirit  back ... that does seem to be related to Passover.
Yeah I don't see hex #14 related to anything we were discussing here at all; except perhaps the eternal polarity here & #1 & #64 say it all better.


Seth says
Einai 2014-04-17 09:32:15 17289
seth 2014-04-17 09:22:46 17289
Why is this item is being associated with 17301 in  this tag room ?
Because, if you had read it, it says that thought, feeling & will are integrated as one thing. A piece that analysis usually forgets. It is analysis that makes them separate.


They are different functions.  That functional separation is not, as GW says, merely an abstraction.



Are the two different functions of this hammer a mere abstraction?

No certainly not !

Seth says
Einai 2014-04-16 14:11:10 17289
seth 2014-04-16 13:34:14 17289
Mostly irrelevant - Dissolution???? for Passover & Easter? Rest is pellic & misses the final word of the hex & the typography of the poetry.


Well i though my quote from GW's document made a clear connection with Spring, Easter, and Passover ...
source: seth on facebook
because, according to Russell's interpretation Thai is success, "Daath of Malkuth"; creater modifying the Universe: Spring, Heaven & Earth in Harmony. Is that not Passover ... i don't know ... what do you think?
... if you disagree, then why?

If the final word of the hex is "galore" ... well that certainly does match Spring and this time of year ... and Easter ... and Passover.  So i don't see what was missed ... can you enlighten me?

Incidentally i still do not understand why GW went from talking about that^ to talking about rules of logic and practical thinking ... could you enlighten me as well there too?


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-04-17 09:51:38 17289
Even better use the hammer without the claw & hammer a nail without the handle...
Still better go back & review my remarks about context & distinction & "there is nothing outside of the way you hold it" ... even a rock is a hammer in some context.


Seth says
source: a sentence from marks train of thought
"there is nothing outside of the way you hold it"
The only way i can understand that in a positive light is the unity of being that forces a hard change in the martial arts. That is a great thing to do ... er, sometimes ... most of us do not live our lives in that state.

Was that the context in which you believe your sentence above to be true?   If not, could you please explain?

In general i have found that there are many stories outside of some particular one that i am holding in any moment.   That does seem to be in the nature of my thought processes and those around me that i must interact with. Have you actually found that your thinking is different?

Seth says
Einai 2014-04-18 08:25:28 17289
I would prefer to get off GW's document which is irrelevant & misunderstood in this item.


not a problem ... do what you will

Seth says

source: mark
Maybe try to understand it in a different context. I really don't grok what distinction you are drawing nor the context it is in except perhaps the eternal opposition (yin-yang).  The context that the quoted sentence was created in is ONTOLOGY!

Well it's interesting to note that Google thinks you coined this particular sentence ... which is great because we can find where you initially said it ...

M 2006-04-21 17:32:42 3345
The logical engine is fine whether it manipulates 1's & 0's or words. If you feed it garbage, ie a bunch of words that is incomplete, needs more explanation, is dependent on many contexts, is not agreed upon by the participants in an argument etc. then you will get garbage out.  Humans have an natural tendency to quibble when an outcome goes against them.  Bill Clinton quibbled about the meaning of the word "IS" when caught. My Zen master once said "There is nothing outside of the way you hold it" ! i.e. context is required to give meaning to anything - a distinction.  You hold something in a context. I haggled a bit with Aha! now I know how to find "nothing" !

I presume that your Zen master here was PR who is also a martial arts instructor, no?  Your context here is quibbling ... er, which is not at all recommended when breaking stones with the bare hands.  Rather to do a hard thing like that one puts up blinders and unifies thought feeling and action to a singular purpose. 

Now, of course i don't know, i was not there and do not know your Zen masters context of utterance.  But like i said, that is that only way that i can interpret your sentence in a positive light.  For, logically it is just plain false.  There are many contexts ... that is a fact ... the one you hold at any moment is not the only one ... to say that all those other contexts are nothing, is just to be oblivious to them. 




Mark de LA says
seth 2014-04-18 09:10:56 17289
source: mark
Yeah, I told you exactly where I got it & you exactly still do not grok it. It is not about breaking boards or stones.

well that is the best way i can interpret you sentence.  If you have it different, can you please explain yourself?

Done it several times & I have failed to penetrate some mental barrier or something? Maybe ask Peter on facebook & see what you get?  I gave up!


Seth says
source: mark
Yeah, I told you exactly where I got it & you exactly still do not grok it. It is not about breaking boards or stones.

well that is the best way i can interpret you sentence.  If you have it different, can you please explain yourself?


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