The Antidote to Bread and Circuses

About: title not given

Found on the facebook EVOLVE website:

DID YOU KNOW? Gandhi's main "weapon" against the British Occupiers of India was SATYAGRAHA, or "Insistence Upon Truth"?

See 16279 for the poison!

I would like to see every entity in government sent a suitable flyer with this face & quote on it.

ALONG WITH THE WORDS "WE ARE WATCHING YOU"

Tags

  1. gandhi
  2. truth
  3. honesty
  4. satyagraha

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-22 11:34:06 17316
... 2015-06-22 11:02:38 17316
seth 2015-06-22 10:41:47 17316

Insistence upon truth
rather redundant?

i am just hailing an insistence  upon truth ... apparently so was Gandhi.   I discovered Gandhi's truth from  his gandhi off of another item ... and thought i would hail it in that regard.

I have, however, experienced gandhi's meme myself by insisting that i write true sentences and make true associations ... when i did i noticed a improvement in my thinking.  Before that i used to make associations kind of willy-nilly just according to what felt good to me to say to myself and to others.   I say that not to brag, but just to record a difference that i noticed. 

Then too there is a thought off of 18450 where Zen meditation insists on silencing all symbolization and thought with the assumption that a different consciousness will just emerge ... well why not just silence false thought as much as possible.  That is  a similar exercise ... it might have an similar result.  The connection of that thought and this item should be clear ... sans, of course, some the assumptions which fight with it.
IMHO, you do NOT grok zen meditation or contemplation. Work harder on insisting on truth.

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-22 10:41:47 17316

Insistence upon truth
rather redundant?

Seth says
... 2015-06-22 11:02:38 17316
seth 2015-06-22 10:41:47 17316

Insistence upon truth
rather redundant?

i am just hailing an insistence  upon truth ... apparently so was Gandhi.   I discovered Gandhi's truth from  his gandhi off of another item ... and thought i would hail it in that regard.

I have, however, experienced gandhi's meme myself by insisting that i write true sentences and make true associations ... when i did i noticed a improvement in my thinking.  Before that i used to make associations kind of willy-nilly just according to what felt good to me to say to myself and to others.   I say that not to brag, but just to record a difference that i noticed. 

Then too there is a thought off of 18450 where Zen meditation insists on silencing all symbolization and thought with the assumption that a different consciousness will just emerge ... well why not just silence false thought as much as possible.  That is  a similar exercise ... it might have an similar result.  The connection of that thought and this item should be clear ... sans, of course, some the assumptions which fight with it.

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-22 22:06:56 17316
M 2015-06-22 14:36:27 17316
You missed the part where something is there before action otherwise you are just a spazz.

didn't miss that, experience here being relatively continuous.  me, i don't want, or expect, to experience moments with no histories.   so no spazz here ... neverteless i do experience an extra truth in my actions that is lacking with their mere symbolic representations which usually are quite unnecessary.  but given any truth of a symbolic representation, the truth of its direct doing it truer.  now that does kind of go without saying ... which is why it hits me with a tilt that you would think i missed it. 
Yeah, maybe picking one's ontology off a box of tennis shoes is definitely unique but I suspect if it works for you it works for you. Far be it for me to disabuse you of choosing whatever you like, no matter what it is - see 18449.  I can't parse you above sentences to anything meaningful. Please don't try again. This item is about Gandhi's satyagraha anyway. Being right or wrong is just another piece of chewing gum to the Tao.


Seth says
source: mark

IMHO, you do NOT grok zen meditation or contemplation.
How so?


Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-22 12:20:45 17316
source: mark

IMHO, you do NOT grok zen meditation or contemplation.
How so?

This is why I wrote 18445 . . Zen meditation or contemplation is to pursue the truth of the matter whatever that may be, no matter what, however & in what form it shows up & as it is in the immediate now.  The unsymbolising gets rid of preconceived notions or vehicles such as are built already into language.


Mark de LA says
You missed the part where something is there before action otherwise you are just a spazz.

Seth says
M 2015-06-22 14:36:27 17316
You missed the part where something is there before action otherwise you are just a spazz.

didn't miss that, experience here being relatively continuous.  me, i don't want, or expect, to experience moments with no histories.   so no spazz here ... neverteless i do experience an extra truth in my actions that is lacking with their mere symbolic representations which usually are quite unnecessary.  but given any truth of a symbolic representation, the truth of its direct doing it truer.  now that does kind of go without saying ... which is why it hits me with a tilt that you would think i missed it. 

Seth says
M 2015-06-22 13:08:35 17316
seth 2015-06-22 12:20:45 17316
source: mark

IMHO, you do NOT grok zen meditation or contemplation.
How so?

This is why I wrote 18445 . . Zen meditation or contemplation is to pursue the truth of the matter whatever that may be, no matter what, however & in what form it shows up & as it is in the immediate now.  The unsymbolising gets rid of preconceived notions or vehicles such as are built already into language.


Well perhaps we do have different groks of zen meditation ... i don't know.  While i understand, as apparently do you,  that ignoring symbols eliminates erroneous notions embedded in their language.  I grok further that deeper truths might naturally emerge unfettered by those weeds.  However wanting (or expecting) a truth signal would prejudice the natural emergence of whatever does emerge.

Which is one reason that i prefer action over mental contemplation ... no need to think about it ... therefore no need to involve symbolization.  Interesting that a Zen Monk's continual advise is to "watch  your breathing" ... which generalizes to "watch what you are doing".  They never say, watch nothing.  Well maybe PR does, i don't know.

Mark de LA says


Seth says
source: mark

Can't help yourself & I can't either way - must reply - must RWG .... [ibid: item 18449]
I think it is your firmly held belief that I must have replied out of RWG.  I have a similar strongly held belief in this regard.   Mine is that i responded out of a desire for deeper, more honest, interaction with you. Hummm .... i wonder ... truly wonder ... is there any way that you (or I) could determine which really was the motivating force?

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-23 09:47:08 17316
source: mark

Can't help yourself & I can't either way - must reply - must RWG .... [ibid: item 18449]
I think it is your firmly held belief that I must have replied out of RWG.  I have a similar strongly held belief in this regard.   Mine is that i responded out of a desire for deeper, more honest, interaction with you. Hummm .... i wonder ... truly wonder ... is there any way that you (or I) could determine which really was the motivating force?
I don't care that's just part of your munge.
source: ... & then there are those who build an Ego out of thinking they are judgement free!
... the rwg includes "I am right", "I know .. " etc .. [responding at all sometimes: item 18449] .  If one were really zen conscious one would catch oneself building the Ego-selfie getting & savoring the Egoo.



Seth says
Ok i won't clarify my paragraph.   But I assure you it is talking directly about Satyagraha, although i realize it is a difficult parse.  I have found one trick to parsing difficult patterns, suspend my expectations (my read ahead).  for example, i can see how, were i to expect my words implied that my ontology came merely from that which symbolized it,  i would have been unable to hear the intended meaning of a paragraph which assumed the opposite.  But, oh shucks, your expectations necessarily are right here ... sorry i must have forgotten.

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-06-23 07:45:05 17316
Ok i won't clarify my paragraph.   But I assure you it is talking directly about Satyagraha, although i realize it is a difficult parse.  I have found one trick to parsing difficult patterns, suspend my expectations (my read ahead).  for example, i can see how, were i to expect my words implied that my ontology came merely from that which symbolized it,  i would have been unable to hear the intended meaning of a paragraph which assumed the opposite.  But, oh shucks, your expectations necessarily are right here ... sorry i must have forgotten.
Can't help yourself & I can't either way - must reply - must RWG .... [ibid: item 18449]

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