Prepositions - Tiny Words with a Big Difference

About: english preposition list | englishclub

Perhaps adds light on the nature of the arrow in an SVO. One can also get insight in the google prepositions pursuit as well.  I like the notion in this article on the purpose of a preposition.
source: ... A preposition describes a relationship between other words in a sentence. In itself, a word like "in" or "after" is rather meaningless and hard to define in mere words. For instance, when you do try to define a preposition like "in" or "between" or "on," you invariably use your hands to show how something is situated in relationship to something else.
... & the rest of English language structure gets light shed on it by acknowledging the parts of speech.

Tags

  1. prepositions
  2. reality
  3. parts of speech
  4. metaworld
  5. about world

Comments


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-05-30 11:11:13 17429
seth 2014-05-30 11:08:39 17429
when representing in SVO, the prepositions disappear ... usually into the labels on the arrows.
Yep - maybe non existent. 
P.S. that's why I hate block diagrams - lack of the prepositions.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-30 12:10:44 17429
Einai 2014-05-30 11:12:06 17429
Einai 2014-05-30 11:11:13 17429
seth 2014-05-30 11:08:39 17429
when representing in SVO, the prepositions disappear ... usually into the labels on the arrows.
Yep - maybe non existent. 
P.S. that's why I hate block diagrams - lack of the prepositions.

i not sure what you are driving at here.

SVO is just a way of modeling that reduces all representations to entities and their relationships.  The assumption is that anything at all that can be said in language can just as accurately be represented in a network(s) of labeled directed arrows ... and that includes those things that are said using prepositions.  I have looked in vain, for a example that would disprove that assumption. Prepositions are just structures of language itself  ... they do not exist in that which the language represents.  Is that what you mean by "maybe non existent" ?
Prepositions are important parts of the relationship arrow that are left out of a lot of discussions.  I should not have used the SVO-label.


Seth says
Einai 2014-05-30 11:12:06 17429
Einai 2014-05-30 11:11:13 17429
seth 2014-05-30 11:08:39 17429
when representing in SVO, the prepositions disappear ... usually into the labels on the arrows.
Yep - maybe non existent. 
P.S. that's why I hate block diagrams - lack of the prepositions.

i not sure what you are driving at here.

SVO is just a way of modeling that reduces all representations to entities and their relationships.  The assumption is that anything at all that can be said in language can just as accurately be represented in a network(s) of labeled directed arrows ... and that includes those things that are said using prepositions.  I have looked in vain, for a example that would disprove that assumption. Prepositions are just structures of language itself  ... they do not exist in that which the language represents.  Is that what you mean by "maybe non existent" ?

Seth says
source: mark
Prepositions are important parts of the relationship arrow that are left out of a lot of discussions.
I crave an actual example. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-30 13:35:34 17429
source: mark
Prepositions are important parts of the relationship arrow that are left out of a lot of discussions.
I crave an actual example. 
Well, the SVO of this completely valid English sentence has an S a V and an O in it.
Seth eats shit.
It might need something else, eh?
Like the Milton & Meta models of NLP the prepositions in, of, from, to by and over 100 45 more can be added to the questioning & more details provided.
  • is valid in what way?
  • shit of what kind?
  • to what extent - fly specs on farmers market groceries?
  • by what means - by the handful, by a spoon, metaphorically by ignoring my posts & making up his own irrelevant talking points?
  • etc.

To think about applying the over 150 single word prepositions to a post or expression in language is a good idea. 

It might be thought of as my new found appreciation and respect for prepositions [a la: item 14275]



Mark de LA says
The prepositional moment I described above I will call an incomplete predicate.
The interesting etymology of the word predicate is here.
...  essentially rooted in the verbs - assert, proclaim, declare , announce & speak 


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-31 04:26:51 17429
Einai 2014-05-30 14:52:37 17429
One way to use the lists provided above is to take your sentence and ask if there is some way to add value using each preposition on the list (not all at once)?

good idea .   i want to see an example of use with a true sentence of some actual interest.
    Too much pellic in your request.
Basically, this item was for me to remember the values of prepositions as part of (maybe even a subsense of ) the sense of language.
   I have noticed on rare occasions that I can focus on what I am doing like cooking & quell the desire to talk to myself internally & then in some of those special moments have a prepositional moment without a target.  Some might call it a senior moment, but I enjoy it similar to a surprise like when I walk into another room & suddenly try to remember why I did so. Most people have encountered such even in young life. I would speculate it is caused by focusing on movement & action rather than what nouns describe.
   I suspect that you did not even read or then if having read it didn't yet digest the quoted source in [the very: item 17429] . It is all part of, & a most important part of, your favorite thingy relationship.
   You tell me what you got out of those two sentences!


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-31 08:49:56 17429
hmmm ... well i can't yet acknowledge that i have experienced anything that i would call a "prepositional moment" or an "incomplete predicate" as you describe them.  however i get a feeling of doing when i am acting without thinking ... in a way it is the feeling of my hands and body moving to act, but there might at times be other nonverbal feelings about the deeds.  for example if it is one of my plastic habits i become aware that i am doing one ... or occasionally if it is more action contingent on external events and i am in sync with them i get my feeling of synchronicity.  but where the action get interrupted by external contingencies (eg denise wanting me to do something different) then i guess i do get a feeling that might be called an "incomplete predicate". 

now my feelings there are almost certaily not exactly the same as the ones you are describing.  perhaps if you describe some more examples of your prepositional moments and incomplete predicate moments i could look for more similar experiences over here.
So, Seth, you never found yourself having gone into a room and forgot why you wanted to be there without something interrupting you besides your own train of thought - like being somewhere else while moving than reality?
I remember once , previously described, where I was going home from the Navy Yard and found myself almost there but it was like I hadn't been in the car for at least 10 minutes. Driving was automatic - no representations needed.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-31 09:00:56 17429
incidentally there are a whole other classification of feelings about actions that i get which are in no way subtle.  most of those i would not want to talk about publicly as some of them are in no way positive and could be used by others who knew about them to criticize or degrade me.  so putting representations of those in the public domain is not on my agenda.
yeah ... the about world is contra the experience world.
Stefan Molyneux: ... The obviously mad are usually channeling the blandly – i.e. culturally approved – mad.
...


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-05-31 09:08:01 17429
source: mark
So, Seth, you never found yourself having gone into a room and forgot why you wanted to be there without something interrupting you besides your own train of thought - like being somewhere else while moving than reality?
... yes, certainly, i do that all the time.  Even when i am driving.  Denise and i laugh about that.  Like when i am cooking and open the fridge to get something but suddenly get surprised because i forgot what it was. 

What are you calling those moments?  Outside of the "woopse i forgot what i was doing feeling" is there some other characteristic feeling that goes with it?
Well back there (above) I call them & still do - for purposes of this topic - incomplete predicates.
a similar phenomena happens when faced with blogging here at fbi in forgetting to read something in the page.

Mark de LA says
I really would like to know if you can get to Note on the Nature of Reality" a paper presumably transcribed from dictation from Aleister Crowley to Lea Hirsig . May need a bit of Little Essays on Truth for a couple of references in it.
It is on Google Drive & shared only with you by email address.



Mark de LA says
Of strange explanations for how things work or dealing with infinity etc. is this G+ post.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-01 09:45:23 17429
Einai 2014-06-01 09:00:16 17429
I really would like to know if you can get to Note on the Nature of Reality" a paper presumably transcribed from dictation from Aleister Crowley to Lea Hirsig . May need a bit of Little Essays on Truth for a couple of references in it.
It is on Google Drive & shared only with you by email address.


yeah i'm reading it now ... it is quite accessible.
Theoretically only you & I or anyone who can sign on to either of our emails can get it.

THanks.

Seth says
Einai 2014-06-01 10:10:02 17429
Of strange explanations for how things work or dealing with infinity etc. is this G+ post.
i like this response ...
source: +Kwaku Awere, um no, it's not "all an illusion" and space-time is indeed expanding, given all the data we have available today. The claim ""it's all an illusion" only is coherent when illusion is compared with reality -- but that phrase usually means one is comparing the cosmos to one's ego, and concludes that reality is an illusion. I tend to draw the opposite conclusion. Heh. 
...


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-02 04:57:39 17429
Einai 2014-06-01 10:10:02 17429
Of strange explanations for how things work or dealing with infinity etc. is this G+ post.
i like this response ...
source: +Kwaku Awere, um no, it's not "all an illusion" and space-time is indeed expanding, given all the data we have available today. The claim ""it's all an illusion" only is coherent when illusion is compared with reality -- but that phrase usually means one is comparing the cosmos to one's ego, and concludes that reality is an illusion. I tend to draw the opposite conclusion. Heh. 
...

Your link goes to a pile - not your quote.Who compares their ego to an illusion or the cosmos?
What doesn't make sense to me is the paragraph following the word "source".


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-02 09:42:44 17429
Einai 2014-06-02 07:34:11 17429
seth 2014-06-02 04:57:39 17429
Einai 2014-06-01 10:10:02 17429
Of strange explanations for how things work or dealing with infinity etc. is this G+ post.
i like this response ...
source: +Kwaku Awere, um no, it's not "all an illusion" and space-time is indeed expanding, given all the data we have available today. The claim ""it's all an illusion" only is coherent when illusion is compared with reality -- but that phrase usually means one is comparing the cosmos to one's ego, and concludes that reality is an illusion. I tend to draw the opposite conclusion. Heh. 
...

Your link goes to a pile - not your quote.Who compares their ego to an illusion or the cosmos?
What doesn't make sense to me is the paragraph following the word "source".


Well it depends on what you assume is fixed and exists a priori ... if WORLD is fixed and MIND compared we get MIND as subjective illusion ... and if we do it the other way around and believe SUBJECTIVE MIND is fixed and compare that to WORLD we get WORLD is MAYA.  That, i believe, is what Awere is saying.  

Incidentally the latter is, i expect, what AC is working up to in Nature of Reality 1923

Incidentally if i could have found a URL for the comment itself i would have pointed there, but just like here at fbi, i don't thing there is a URL for each coment.  Let me know if you can find one.
Yep, didn't know where the quote was coming from.  I tend to think/ask why compare in the first place.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-02 12:08:33 17429
Einai 2014-06-02 11:38:21 17429
seth 2014-06-02 11:06:58 17429
Einai 2014-06-02 10:46:53 17429
seth 2014-06-02 10:40:58 17429
source: mark
I tend to think/ask why compare in the first place.
  a bit of reflections of reflections of representations of reflections of representation infinitely there, eh?   I mean asking why when that must needs be examining the metaworld compared to the WORLD ... reflected in the metaworld ... and judged there

I mean, after all, which ... WORLD or MIND ...  is believed to be real (a priori actual) is the edge which philosophy tries to find. 

... so if you can think it ... if you can ask why ask it ... then you are already trapped somewhere in the reflections.
I'm sorry - I am left with the feeling that my inner ear just ate another pile of words & belched up a fart.


or, said differently, you did not understand what i wrote.
As did you my post.  The point I had was comparing egos to the Universe (everything to a small something) & visa-versa is futile or silly. The cute infinite mirror while nice surrounded by your word pile seems to ignore my point & contribute what?
,,... burp ... ffft .

Unfortunately "comparing everything to a small something" was not guessable to me given just "I tend to think/ask why compare in the first place".   My mind just does not get there from that ... especially since  Kwaku Awere's comment noticed only the comparison of EGO to WORLD and ... er ... not as to size or importance, but rather as to which was a priori ... er, which was actual vs which was derived.  I wonder who switched (missed) the reference ... me, you, or originally Kwaku Awere? 

Me I was just responding to your judgmentally saying "WHY ASK" in regards the salient question ... especially in the light of your recent shunning of doing just that. 


Yep still left with that feeling. I'm sorry - I am left with the feeling that my inner ear just ate another pile of words & belched up a fart.
I ask that this item if not extended with references to the topic be abandoned by ego needs to play rwg or anything other than prepositional topics.


Seth says
seth 2014-05-31 10:07:32 17429
source: mark
yeah ... the about world is contra the experience world.
 
Well finally we are talking about the "about world" ... we are talking about the metaworld. For me, as you know, instances of the metaworld are pictured by an arrow.   Me thinks, of course, that they are not always "contra" to experience ... but rather when the relationship between the about world and experience are aligned, the arrows point true, and are felt to be true.  
Einai 2014-05-31 10:28:18 [item 17429#31540]
      Kinda off topic for Prepositions, eh? At least you found a touchstone to something of yours.
      While you have been constructing such it is particularly pertinent that I have been reading something in the archive called "Note on the Nature of Reality" a paper presumably transcribed from dictation from Aleister Crowley to Lea Hirsig . May need a bit of Little Essays on Truth for a couple of references in it.  See if you can get to it. It is on google drive temporarily restricted to you.  I could not find it published on the Internet yet.
I find it rather topical & more interesting than mentographing more burgers.
seth 2016-01-27 16:59:42 [item 17429#43848]
seems to me that all “prepositions” are part of the metaworld … so i don’t know why it would be “off topic” from them.   but if that is just about your thingey … no my thingey … no your thingey … just tuit
Mark 2016-01-27 17:53:28 [item 17429#43849]
I don’t know why this thing got resurrected except more debate opportunity.  Anyway, the meta world is not the real world of experience. (pornography versus fucking) .  Prepositions function in language to tell one about the flow of action & content.  I put my pecker in her cunt details the flow of action. I messed around with her tits. the action did not penetrate her .  There was a lot of hair around her ass etc. smug
this got correlated by my tagging my recent thought via metaworld.   petty much what you say above about the metaworld is true here as well.  everything can be argued … nothing need be … just always looking for common edges of our stories.

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