conservative, libertairian & right sized government


Note here that the spectrum we are paying attention to here is that of value ... think here about how much you value a loaf of bread ... how much is it worth to you.  The spectrum is that the more you value your time, the less you value your accumulation of wealth ... the more you value your accumulation of wealth, the less you value your time.   think of it that way ... as both of the things being yours ... then you can eliminate the bug of jealousy ... which has nothing to do with this spectrum.

............................................................................................
  1. Well i think we need to acknowledge that we humans struggle to push and pull the value of our time and labor against the value of accumulated wealth. 
  2. And that Government is engaged in mediating that struggle. 
  3. Now by force of your own personal convictions you will probably opt for the left or the right.
  4. My question is, if government is removed as a force in this dynamic, what is to prevent the balance to shift all the way to the left (woopse, i probably should have drawn time on the left).  ????

Tags

  1. libertarian
  2. conservative
  3. capital time spectrum
  4. spectrum
  5. item 17480

Comments


Seth says
Einai 2014-06-16 11:30:25 17482
go review s threefoldness or not.

Well to have useful dialgue here first please say (1) if you understand the balance stated above, and/or (2) how would you represent it differently, and/or (3) if you believe that such a balance/struggle does in fact even exist?

Without such an explicit direct statement from you here on that perticular subject, i fear that anything else would be just trains passing in the night ... and be devoid of any focus.

If threefoldness has something to contribute to understanding (or denying) this balance, then please state it explicitly what that is ... my reading on that topic is irrelevant ... the thoughts themselves are the only pertinent thing for our focus.

Seth says
source: mark
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram
Well i made that diagram this morning especially designed just to understand the matters you brought up in the about link.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-16 16:53:21 17482
Einai 2014-06-16 16:44:57 17482
seth 2014-06-16 16:20:11 17482
source: mark
Did you recognize what I was doing as threefolding?
Well any treefolding, me thinks,  would need a complete understanding of the dynamics that i diagrammed above.   Incidentally the value of people's time (right side of my spectrum above) was something that RS delved into quite deeply in his opus ... also the other end of the spectrum, how accumulated wealth should be valued was something that he talked at length about.  So i still think that this dynamic must be studied to understand where we might go. 

Nope! Actually RS was into the other way of doing things - more from the bottom up. I would get a small test group of people to sign onto the principles like "labor is not a commodity", "capital in the form of money" gains value only in circulation & must not end up in silos of government or banks or land.  There are many. Then I would find test projects to implement those principles.  Some are already doing that.


do not see those things that i have bolded in my diagram?
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram & control the conversation in that old box.   Have at it. Same old problems same old solutions. Nothing interesting here for me to think about. Enjoy.
It is that "unrecognizable to related to the occurring of which is only on the other side of the same old shit that you recognize that keeps you in the same old box. Maybe take your finger out of your box.


Seth says
Einai 2014-06-16 14:18:07 17482
seth 2014-06-16 14:01:15 17482
Einai 2014-06-16 13:51:44 17482
seth 2014-06-16 11:53:46 17482
source: mark
Not worth doing for me. Argue with your own models & abstractions. What I am saying is I have already covered what I wanted to say on the item I said it on. No need to be here now.


... well its good to know that you have your thinking in broadcast only mode.  Thanks for letting me know that ... i will read your blog in the future with that in mind.
Evidence shows you haven't really read it much before as pertains to s threefoldness & related .


Why are you redirecting the subject back to me.   I am irrelevant to the dialogue.  Again ...

If threefoldness has something to contribute to understanding (or denying) this balance, then please state explicitly what those thoughts themselves are  which are pertinent to this particular focus right here.  Read those into the record.
Rather yet, why not get my item off the title of this munge I won't be need to do that.  It is rather relevant that no matter what I write you always try to imply that I have to explain myself. Suppose I tried that with your stuff.  Explain yourself here.
""

Huh?  If i don't understand what you say, then my method of getting that understanding is to ask for you to clarify.  I don't understand how that could possible be a problem for you.  I do  in fact expect that if you don't understand what i write, then you will ask me to clarify also. 

Calling this a "munge" is just you insulting this item, and yet not mustering enough focus to explain exactly why it is a "munge".   I kind of do resent that kind of unsubstantial insult ... it is not at all useful for establishing communication between us ... surly you must realize that.

This item was composed after careful thought about the item you wrote.  I spent quite a number of hours thinking just about what you wrote there.   This item is precisely about that subject ... and, me thinks is very pertinent to it.  If you want useful dialogue with me about that topic, then this is where it can take place.  Otherwise you are invited to simply ignore this item with no further comment on it by you necessary at all.

Seth says
source: mark
Huh(Huh?(Huh?(?Huh))) uh ... I need to understand how after so many years of supporting & articulating the principles of the Threefold Commonwealth & [tags threefolding] you failed to get the basics of the idea.  I gave a shortcut answer for Stossel & the Libertarian vs Conservative discussion. How much of that connection did you master during your "quite a number of hours".  Did you recognize what I was doing as threefolding?

... ... have you ever noticed that some people think they are thinking ... but all they are really doing is sticking their finger in their butt hole and wiggling it?

Seth says
seth 2014-06-16 16:50:36 17482
Einai 2014-06-16 16:38:14 17482
seth 2014-06-16 16:03:28 17482
source: mark
Huh(Huh?(Huh?(?Huh))) uh ... I need to understand how after so many years of supporting & articulating the principles of the Threefold Commonwealth & [tags threefolding] you failed to get the basics of the idea.  I gave a shortcut answer for Stossel & the Libertarian vs Conservative discussion. How much of that connection did you master during your "quite a number of hours".  Did you recognize what I was doing as threefolding?

... ... have you ever noticed that some people think they are thinking ... but all they are really doing is sticking their finger in their butt hole and wiggling it?
Keep doing whatever works for you. You might have to wash your finger, though especially if other people use your computer!


Well would you humon me for a real experiment ... first think the kind of stuff you have been thinking in this item ... then stick you finger in your butt and wigges it ... see if you can describe the difference.  I have to admit, from the outside i really can't tell the difference.

I want to be more specific about this experiment.

This procedure is very similar to the  one we did over here.  

(1)speak out loud the things you have said in response to me here.

(2) simultaneously stick your finger in your butt and wiggel it in cadence to what you say even with any special emphasis.

(3) see if you can tell the difference between you finger wiggeling in your butt and what you are hearing yourself say.

My theory is that they are going to feel like the same identical experience to you.  But let me know if you can honestly feel any difference.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-16 19:40:24 17482
seth 2014-06-16 16:50:36 17482
Einai 2014-06-16 16:38:14 17482
seth 2014-06-16 16:03:28 17482
source: mark
Huh(Huh?(Huh?(?Huh))) uh ... I need to understand how after so many years of supporting & articulating the principles of the Threefold Commonwealth & [tags threefolding] you failed to get the basics of the idea.  I gave a shortcut answer for Stossel & the Libertarian vs Conservative discussion. How much of that connection did you master during your "quite a number of hours".  Did you recognize what I was doing as threefolding?

... ... have you ever noticed that some people think they are thinking ... but all they are really doing is sticking their finger in their butt hole and wiggling it?
Keep doing whatever works for you. You might have to wash your finger, though especially if other people use your computer!


Well would you humon me for a real experiment ... first think the kind of stuff you have been thinking in this item ... then stick you finger in your butt and wigges it ... see if you can describe the difference.  I have to admit, from the outside i really can't tell the difference.

I want to be more specific about this experiment.

This procedure is very similar to the  one we did over here.  

(1)speak out loud the things you have said in response to me here.

(2) simultaneously stick your finger in your butt and wiggel it in cadence to what you say even with any special emphasis.

(3) see if you can tell the difference between you finger wiggeling in your butt and what you are hearing yourself say.

My theory is that they are going to feel like the same identical experience to you.  But let me know if you can honestly feel any difference.
I think this qualifies as a shove it up your ass moment for Bozo.""

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-16 19:23:34 17482
source: mark
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram
Well i made that diagram this morning especially designed just to understand the matters you brought up in the about link.

Funny your diagram missed the point I made entirely.


Mark de LA says
Answered in G+


Seth says

Einai 2014-06-16 20:07:57 17482
seth 2014-06-16 19:23:34 17482
source: mark
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram
Well i made that diagram this morning especially designed just to understand the matters you brought up in the about link.

Funny your diagram missed the point I made entirely.

and what point specifically was that?  Incidentally my diagram was just intended to elucidate the moving parts of the perdicament ... not to exclude any particular point.  if it was incomplete, then how was it incomplete? What salient situation was left out at that level of detail?

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-06-16 21:49:03 17482

Einai 2014-06-16 20:07:57 17482
seth 2014-06-16 19:23:34 17482
source: mark
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram
Well i made that diagram this morning especially designed just to understand the matters you brought up in the about link.

Funny your diagram missed the point I made entirely.

and what point specifically was that?  Incidentally my diagram was just intended to elucidate the moving parts of the perdicament ... not to exclude any particular point.  if it was incomplete, then how was it incomplete? What salient situation was left out at that level of detail?
You should be able to get something from the meme pic above.  The government is corrupt with crony capitalism & manipulation of politics by money.  Try to get that please & I will get to discussing it some other way with you.  Put energy into solutions instead of diagrams, eh?


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-06-17 00:35:21 17482
seth 2014-06-16 21:49:03 17482

Einai 2014-06-16 20:07:57 17482
seth 2014-06-16 19:23:34 17482
source: mark
OK I get it you only want to rummage around in your own diagram
Well i made that diagram this morning especially designed just to understand the matters you brought up in the about link.

Funny your diagram missed the point I made entirely.

and what point specifically was that?  Incidentally my diagram was just intended to elucidate the moving parts of the perdicament ... not to exclude any particular point.  if it was incomplete, then how was it incomplete? What salient situation was left out at that level of detail?
You should be able to get something from the meme pic above.  The government is corrupt with crony capitalism & manipulation of politics by money.  Try to get that please & I will get to discussing it some other way with you.  Put energy into solutions instead of diagrams, eh?

Out of your wonderful, most general personal diagram please come up with one solution - one something new - to the problem of money in politics which is of your own & not just turning around & asking me another question.


Seth says
source: mark
The government is corrupt with crony capitalism & manipulation of politics by money.
Yes, each side affects government trying to pull it to favor their side.   I put that in the model now.

Wealth corrupts government by buying favors.

People do the same thing via leaders who pander to freebies. 

Wealth corrupts lobbying to make the money the voting unit rather than people.

People stampede like herd animals lead by media pandering to their base emotions.

These corruptions should be eliminated ... yet can they?  Perhaps best we can do it to recognize they are there and move away from them individually and collectively.  Speaking out against specifics.

But that doesn't change the fact that a balance must be struck ... and the way that is being done now is through government.  Until a better balancing method actually evolvs ... or maybe government itself evolves into a better, less corrupt, balancing mechanism ... me thinks we cannot destroy it or render it ineffective.




Seth says
source: mark
to the problem of money in politics
Well i think a good place to start is to stop the practice of allowing money an equal vote with people with the right to buy elections via media advertising. 

Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-06-17 06:58:55 17482
seth 2014-06-17 06:34:23 17482
source: mark
to the problem of money in politics
Well i think a good place to start is to stop the practice of allowing money an equal vote with people with the right to buy elections via media advertising. 
We already have a wealth of campaign finance laws not being followed or enforced or enforced too late. In effect the problem is so large that it is no longer possible to "follow the money" to the source & intent of what used to be called "bribery" & libel. Even the M$M (the $-sign is on purpose) is part of the problem.

Even attempts toward accountability & lies seems to be going in the opposite direction via recent SCOTUS decisions.


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-06-17 07:15:42 17482
Einai 2014-06-17 06:58:55 17482
seth 2014-06-17 06:34:23 17482
source: mark
to the problem of money in politics
Well i think a good place to start is to stop the practice of allowing money an equal vote with people with the right to buy elections via media advertising. 
We already have a wealth of campaign finance laws not being followed or enforced or enforced too late. In effect the problem is so large that it is no longer possible to "follow the money" to the source & intent of what used to be called "bribery" & libel. Even the M$M (the $-sign is on purpose) is part of the problem.

Even attempts toward accountability & lies seems to be going in the opposite direction via recent SCOTUS decisions.

Accountability on facebook by Werner Erhard.

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