July 4 - 238 Year Old Country FOR SALE


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disclaimer:
The Money
& Assets
May already
belong to
China.

(***)

Tags

  1. item 17536
  2. sale
  3. money in politics
  4. money in government
  5. super pacs
  6. mayday pac
  7. GrosseLugie
  8. GrossLugie
  9. BigLie
  10. BigLies

Comments


Mark de LA says
...
For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader " the barbarians enter Rome. (Heinlein)
see also 16279
...

I hate it when some predictions come true


Mark de LA says
Why any of it matters? If you have children you might ponder ...
Winston Churchill

“History is written by the victors.”


Winston Churchill


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-12 09:42:05 17536
source: this thing

I hate it when some predictions come true


... yeah you don't like the narrative.   sometimes we can just change the narrative.   Steve Denning suggested the story that corporations purpose was to maximize the owners money was fundamentally flawed ... bad story ... so some corporations changed it to delighting their customers ... Voila! ... we get corporations like Apple. 
Yep. #GrosseLugie (S) notwithstanding. 
Yep(2) - we don't have free capitalism & free markets - we have crony state-run capitalism for the power elite mostly for those centered in Washington DC. Their view of the country is entirely different than those outside in the states. Make government shrink & be independent of commerce.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-12 10:09:59 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 09:51:11 17536
seth 2014-07-12 09:42:05 17536
source: this thing

I hate it when some predictions come true


... yeah you don't like the narrative.   sometimes we can just change the narrative.   Steve Denning suggested the story that corporations purpose was to maximize the owners money was fundamentally flawed ... bad story ... so some corporations changed it to delighting their customers ... Voila! ... we get corporations like Apple. 
Yep. #GrosseLugie (S) notwithstanding. 
Yep(2) - we don't have free capitalism & free markets - we have crony state-run capitalism for the power elite mostly for those centered in Washington DC. Their view of the country is entirely different than those outside in the states. Make government shrink & be independent of commerce.


Ok, well that has been, what i will call for lack of a better term, "The Libertarian Story".   How is that story working for you?   Me, i'm wondering how long it will be believed until somebody conceives of a story which ends up being the narrative of what actually happens.

Call it what you like. It was RS's before Libertarians were invented. As you continually brush off any contribution I have as a story, I will begin to call your shit #GrossLugie more often & escalate to #BigLie if it really pisses me off. (not a threat)


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-12 11:03:59 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 10:21:30 17536
seth 2014-07-12 10:09:59 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 09:51:11 17536
seth 2014-07-12 09:42:05 17536
source: this thing

I hate it when some predictions come true


... yeah you don't like the narrative.   sometimes we can just change the narrative.   Steve Denning suggested the story that corporations purpose was to maximize the owners money was fundamentally flawed ... bad story ... so some corporations changed it to delighting their customers ... Voila! ... we get corporations like Apple. 
Yep. #GrosseLugie (S) notwithstanding. 
Yep(2) - we don't have free capitalism & free markets - we have crony state-run capitalism for the power elite mostly for those centered in Washington DC. Their view of the country is entirely different than those outside in the states. Make government shrink & be independent of commerce.


Ok, well that has been, what i will call for lack of a better term, "The Libertarian Story".   How is that story working for you?   Me, i'm wondering how long it will be believed until somebody conceives of a story which ends up being the narrative of what actually happens.

Call it what you like. It was RS's before Libertarians were invented. As you continually brush off any contribution I have as a story, I will begin to call your shit #GrossLugie more often & escalate to #BigLie if it really pisses me off. (not a threat)


Er, your story marked 2 above, and the whole Libertarian story part of which you have recanted here, was not the threefold story told by RS, though parts of it have a similar theme. 

but incidentally, since we are on the topic of similar themes, it has come to many's attention that there is a common theme between the story that even liberals are telling and conservitives and even RS's threeforld story.   And that is Lessig's new initiative.  Me, i want to believe in that story now .
That is you munging again. The idea is that government & commerce should be independent. See: s threefolding. Do your so-called similar themes somewhere else. I didn't recant anything - go look up the word.Obama's #BigLies still offend. See this from history.


Mark de LA says
The circus may be in your town before you know it.
Source: ...

Elected officials in two states far from the U.S.-Mexico border have claimed that the Obama administration has resettled hundreds of unaccompanied illegal immigrant children without adequate notice and has refused to detail the exact locations where the children are being kept. 

Fox News has learned that 748 unaccompanied minors have been transferred from areas near the border to the Chicago area. Of the original group of 748 kids, 319 have been placed with family members or sponsors while they await an immigration hearing. The other 429 have been placed in facilities run by the Heartland Alliance, a nonprofit organization that receives grants from the Department of Health and Human Services
...
cartoon not so far fetched, eh?
fast tracking illegal activity?


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-12 14:00:31 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 13:31:08 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 12:23:42 17536
seth 2014-07-12 11:24:14 17536
Well well well ... getting money out of the politics of government IS making "government & commerce independent" .... same identical story.
Your identity sense is off.  Getting money out of campaigns is not the same as getting government out of money & commerce. Both should happen. 

As a matter of fact if commerce & government were separate there would be no need for campaign money since there should be no way for the elected to benefit some faction in commerce.


yep that is the point .... so where do we start, at the chicken or the egg?
Drop the chicken or egg meme.
Then comprehend the principles.
Then carve out a principle that you can do something about (with?) at the local level.
Declare you are going to do it.
Do it, etc.
Find others who subscribe to the same principle. Enroll them in the ideas.
.... I've spoken about this before.


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-07-12 12:23:42 17536
seth 2014-07-12 11:24:14 17536
Well well well ... getting money out of the politics of government IS making "government & commerce independent" .... same identical story.
Your identity sense is off.  Getting money out of campaigns is not the same as getting government out of money & commerce. Both should happen. 

As a matter of fact if commerce & government were separate there would be no need for campaign money since there should be no way for the elected to benefit some faction in commerce.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-12 11:24:14 17536
Well well well ... getting money out of the politics of government IS making "government & commerce independent" .... same identical story.
Your identity sense is off.  Getting money out of campaigns is not the same as getting government out of money & commerce. Both should happen. 


Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-07-12 16:06:42 17536
One can start with any principles such as dignity in human vocation -VS- human labor as a commodity (corporate slavery). I like these dualities exposed on icyberspace.net



Seth says
Einai 2014-07-12 14:19:44 17536
seth 2014-07-12 14:00:31 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 13:31:08 17536
Einai 2014-07-12 12:23:42 17536
seth 2014-07-12 11:24:14 17536
Well well well ... getting money out of the politics of government IS making "government & commerce independent" .... same identical story.
Your identity sense is off.  Getting money out of campaigns is not the same as getting government out of money & commerce. Both should happen. 

As a matter of fact if commerce & government were separate there would be no need for campaign money since there should be no way for the elected to benefit some faction in commerce.


yep that is the point .... so where do we start, at the chicken or the egg?
(1) Drop the chicken or egg meme.
(2) Then comprehend the principles.
(3) Then carve out a principle that you can do something about (with?) at the local level.
(4) Declare you are going to do it.
(5) Do it, etc.
(6) Find others who subscribe to the same principle. Enroll them in the ideas.
.... I've spoken about this before.


(2) - (6) are certainly a good plan but i would prefer to state (2) as "comprehend the situations".

The current situation in America where politicians raise lots of money from about 1/2 of 1 % of the population and then use that to spin lies about their opponents in media is one of the primary ways that government gets attached to commerce and money.  Creating workable alternatives to that situation is what will separate the two domains making them independent.   It is not in the glory of the principle that we make this change, rather it is in glory of doing it a better way.  So where do we start given the situation that prevails today ... how do we elect our new representatives?  Lessig's initiative is, me thinks, one such place to start.

No "memes were dropped" in that plan ... just hopefully some confusions of reference.

Mark de LA says
  • The chicken or egg meme is what you usually call binary choices. Yep still around.
  • It is not all about big money & adverts.  Obama campaigns while the border burns. He attended a fund-raise by some hollywood types who are very pro open border & amnesty while in Texas & didn't go to the border to look around.
  • Coke brothers vs George Soros is just a small part of the problem
  • If you can't grok the Being of things & only reduce them to an individual instance or "situation" you will never understand Principles.
  • When true function of government (the equality arm of: liberty, equality, fraternity) mostly justice & law - sort of the equal before the law thingy can't muck with freedom and fraternity (the commerce arm) then balance will be restored.  Such is a hit on the fundamental principle of threefoldness.  When such is evolved from the bottom up instead of dictated from the top down balance is restored.
  • beware of the imbalance of an inverted pyramid:
      (**)


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-14 08:02:27 17536
source: mark
If you can't grok the Being of things & only reduce them to an individual instance or "situation" you will never understand Principles.
Well individual instances are the being of the thing.  Those things change according to edges that move.  When we think about that we humans can represent those movements in our mind and call them "principles".  But those principles in our mind are not what change our situations.  Me thinks a bit of Zen and direct experience helps us grok this.  
You are incorrect.
 Being includes change & movement check out the martial arts of Cheng Hsin.
Or maybe the Yi King whose name changed itself to the I Ching for the New Age is all about changes. The Golden Rule is a mighty principle - if mastered & not haggled with it produces threefoldness. But, then the latter is probably in the advanced course.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-14 08:55:08 17536
Einai 2014-07-14 08:34:59 17536
seth 2014-07-14 08:02:27 17536
source: mark
If you can't grok the Being of things & only reduce them to an individual instance or "situation" you will never understand Principles.
Well individual instances are the being of the thing.  Those things change according to edges that move.  When we think about that we humans can represent those movements in our mind and call them "principles".  But those principles in our mind are not what change our situations.  Me thinks a bit of Zen and direct experience helps us grok this.  
You are incorrect.
 Being includes change & movement check out the martial arts of Cheng Hsin.
Or maybe the Yi King whose name changed itself to the I Ching for the New Age is all about changes. The Golden Rule is a mighty principle - if mastered & not haggled with it produces threefoldness. But, then the latter is probably in the advanced course.


yep, of course being includes change & movement.  There is nothing that i said above that contradicts that.  What is not part of those beings is the representations in your mind that you call "principles".   That is kind of an old story from Kant, which me thinks is best relegated to the whims of the philosophic childhood or a young humanity.  

viz ...
source: Wikipedia
The problem of universals �" how can one thing in general be many things in particular �" was solved by presuming that Form was a distinct singular thing but caused plural representations of itself in particular objects.
... reifying  the representation in the mind over direct experience.

Yep - still DON'T grok being. Sorry for you not for me.  I'm not going to argue it with you. Further attempts to argue your point should go on your own items.


Seth says
Einai 2014-07-14 08:34:59 17536
seth 2014-07-14 08:02:27 17536
source: mark
If you can't grok the Being of things & only reduce them to an individual instance or "situation" you will never understand Principles.
Well individual instances are the being of the thing.  Those things change according to edges that move.  When we think about that we humans can represent those movements in our mind and call them "principles".  But those principles in our mind are not what change our situations.  Me thinks a bit of Zen and direct experience helps us grok this.  
You are incorrect.
 Being includes change & movement check out the martial arts of Cheng Hsin.
Or maybe the Yi King whose name changed itself to the I Ching for the New Age is all about changes. The Golden Rule is a mighty principle - if mastered & not haggled with it produces threefoldness. But, then the latter is probably in the advanced course.


yep, of course being includes change & movement.  There is nothing that i said above that contradicts that.  What is not part of those beings is the representations in your mind that you call "principles".   That is kind of an old story from Kant, which me thinks is best relegated to the whims of the philosophic childhood or a young humanity.  

viz ...
source: Wikipedia
The problem of universals – how can one thing in general be many things in particular – was solved by presuming that Form was a distinct singular thing but caused plural representations of itself in particular objects.
... reifying  the representation in the mind over direct experience.


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