Grok of Being

About: the book of not-knowing

One who groks being (notice grok is an invented word of maybe Heinlein - Stranger in a Strange Land) knows the futility of trying to clothe such in words long after the volcano effect has run rampant; maybe a few seconds later.
Trying to clothe another's direct experience of being in your own words & philosophy & point-of-view is equally futile & pointless.
-
'Nuff Said

Tags

  1. being
  2. words
  3. chalmers

Comments


Seth says
Einai 2014-07-14 11:08:42 17543
Einai 2014-07-14 10:52:44 17543
seth 2014-07-14 10:43:32 17543

Well we clothe our experience in words all the time ... it's called "communication".  But what is communicated is NOT the experience itself ... just a sign to it ... like pointing over there and saying, "Here, There be Dragons". 

Obviously trying to clothe another's experience is flawed beyond absurdity ...  kind of like denying the basic perdacament of separation of being .
Yeah .. nice try ... none of this applies to being nor direct experience .. indeed you are trying to apply words to something that doesn't need words or which disappears when you try to give it words.  Give it up & you might have one someday!
Try to describe an orgasm all the way to the most infinitely small moment of it & don't let it go until you get it all in words.
& then get back to me
well we can associate words to any  experience that can be shared ... and hurl those across the abyss to somebody else who might just make the same associations .... but yes, if a experience cannot be shared, then of course applying words to it must be done  quite indirectly indeed.  There really should not be any disagreement there.

I'm thinking that what you keep referring to as "direct experiences" are simply experiences that can not be shared.  And yes, pretty much everyting you say about those match my thinking about them too.  No reason to play guru to neophyte about those whatsoever.

Orgasms are easy, those most of us share, though perhaps they don't always feel the same to each of us.   The words associated with those experiences are many and varied and replete in our literature ... with many agreements.   I mean when have you ever talked to a person honestly about their orgasm and got confused about what they were talking about.

Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-07-14 10:52:44 17543
seth 2014-07-14 10:43:32 17543

Well we clothe our experience in words all the time ... it's called "communication".  But what is communicated is NOT the experience itself ... just a sign to it ... like pointing over there and saying, "Here, There be Dragons". 

Obviously trying to clothe another's experience is flawed beyond absurdity ...  kind of like denying the basic perdacament of separation of being .
Yeah .. nice try ... none of this applies to being nor direct experience .. indeed you are trying to apply words to something that doesn't need words or which disappears when you try to give it words.  Give it up & you might have one someday!
Try to describe an orgasm all the way to the most infinitely small moment of it & don't let it go until you get it all in words.
& then get back to me

Mark de LA says
Einai 2014-07-14 11:57:47 17543
Where you fail at it is in not appreciating the fact that consciousness does not need words. You are still using them, dude. There are many different consciousnesses.

Nothing I have said rules share-ability in or out.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-15 07:31:07 17543
Einai 2014-07-14 15:39:23 17543
seth 2014-07-14 14:58:03 17543
the flip side of the grok might be even scarier.
There is no flip side. Nothing to be scared of.


there is always a flip side.  rather than thinking it, you place a pile of steaming shit on it.  i call that being scared of it. 

Yep, still arguing & haggling.
Consciousness & being itself may be of the zeroth dimension - have you thought of that? Maybe ponder that - the absence of dimension - & I'll get back to you. Some metaphors & maps just can't work.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-14 13:44:57 17543
Einai 2014-07-14 13:38:54 17543
seth 2014-07-14 13:36:34 17543
Einai 2014-07-14 11:59:54 17543
Einai 2014-07-14 11:57:47 17543
Where you fail at it is in not appreciating the fact that consciousness does not need words. You are still using them, dude. There are many different consciousnesses.

Nothing I have said rules share-ability in or out.

... and nothing I have said implies that "consciousness needs words" ... thought words are certainly useful to communicate awareness from person to person and recall awareness from time to time ... without that communication i doubt there would be much left that I could value in human consciousness.

Anyway Hey , dude-e-dude, wordless private consciousness is Great indeed ! ... i do it myself all the time ... feels real good ... er, but when i do, i don't talk about it with words, unlike what i am doing now .


Yep - [munged into nothingness: item 17534] - I call it the SethBozoSum effect.


Well yes the confusion for Bozo changed into nothing ... i call it being replaced by clarity. Your mileage, of course, will vary.  
No confusion on my part no unclarity. You must have run scared from the grok & hurried it to a conclusion similar to mungefulness:


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-07-15 10:40:56 17543
Einai 2014-07-15 09:55:42 17543
seth 2014-07-15 09:09:03 17543
well seems to me that we talk of many things here.  "be ing", or (if you like the noun) "Being", or the so called movie that happens inside ourselves (see TED talk by David Chalmers), or some disembodied glory in the universe, or in Nature, or in what emerges as common awareness as we interact, or whatever, all seems to me are different things ... or at best different aspects of the same thing. 

sure, it would be fun to grok these from each of our perspectives.  but i doubt that you and i will,  ... our history predicts that we will not listen ... and will shit in each other's mouths.

oh well .
Yep, you still hold it as something you can "talk about" - too bad still caught in your meta walled garden.




as predicted ... yummy shit you just put in my mouth .... how does it taste to you?
It tastes a bit like this:
[shove it up your ass: item 17420]. You get ugly sometimes outside your walled garden. Maybe look at such sometimes when you get .

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