We want to make our own food!

i delved deep in my soul to find the shortest simplest and most direct expression, with the fewest presumptions, of this revolutionary movement we are perusing ... i came up with ...

We want to make our own food!

Comments

Seth says

Actually i tried out this meme on some of the people who stopped by our farm stand and it seemed to resonate ... this is not just me ... this is the simplest statement of a food revolution. Me thinks a food revolution is a good start on a revolution that turns our society to a better direction ... perhaps it is a relatively low hanging fruit of something that we can actually get a grasp upon.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-18 10:49:46 17635

Maybe consider packaging your meme so that it spreads by itself.

well yes certainly. the thing about that simple sentence ... that simple proposal ... is that it carries no extra baggage about GMO or organic or big business. it is just the human thrust ... the feeling inside that can give clarity to changing habits. if it does continue to resonate, i do hope better packaging will emerge.

Seth says

source: mark
Yeah - I'm kinda neutral given the declaration statement resembles a stand in some unspecified context. Actually as a busy person, I don't want to make my own food. I just want to know what to eat to sustain optimum health & survivability & avoid disease. I would prefer it be cooked & available on my table ready to eat & meet my requirements without my having to forage, grow or consult a chemist, etc.

Tim Tyler on memetics, cultural evolution etc. G+

... well that's kind of why i used the famous "we" birdie in my proposal. I don't think it is practical to presume that each individual will literally make their own food ... most people's life is taken up with other things. So then the we represents a group, or family, of people who are cooperating to make their own food. Pretty much like to food environment in which we grew up in ... but perhaps even more extreme ... perhaps even getting into growing and animal husbandry. it's kind of a retro Luddite direction. it does require a bigger commitment to our social being than perhaps some people are used to with their private lives untouched by human encounter.

Einaian says

seth 2014-08-19 04:51:39 17635

Einaian 2014-08-18 14:07:48 17635

It is not antisocial to want not to have to go backwards to agrarian days.

Well in my mind those things are just not connected in that abstracted way ...

It is not practical for a single individual to do it exclusively by themselves ... especially if they also have an active life doing other things. So that making our own food requires cooperation among people. Which i think is a good thing, since that kind of cooperation is ... to grab a metaphor ... what makes the world go round.

Then too a reversal of the technological thrust of humanity is something that is unlikely to happen. But making our own food does not require that reversal. So the trick is going to be learning ways to use our technology in the very service of becoming personally in control of getting food in our mouth. Doing that together, which is the only way it can happen, necessitates that we interact socially with our fellow beings. Again a good thing, with the added benefit that we eat healthy food.

Whatever is connected in your mind must ultimately realize that
"life comes from life" - i.e. food.

Part of the problem IS today's corrupt food technology -- GMO, factory farming, antibiotics in our animals, bug sprays killing bees, Monsanto, & air-pollution to get all of that to market. The technology that is helping has to do with communication. An interconnection of a bunch of small farmers markets is not likely to feed the number of people we have - which is 3.2 times larger than when we were born. Kudos to your efforts . In the next town over we have the Chico Farmers Market & we have a small one locally in Paradise. I look at them as supplementing what I can't find in the regular supermarket. It is going to take reform in economy, politics & culture to make the corruption in "big agriculture" change, imho.

Seth says

Obviously everyone has there own way of swimming in this river .... here is mine today ... road kill applesauce ...

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-18 12:29:40 17635

seth 2014-08-18 12:14:11 17635

it does require a bigger commitment to our social being than perhaps some people are used to with their private lives untouched by human encounter.

Last sentence doesn't apply to me so you do have a different WE than I do.

- apparently separate WE(s) defines our relationship.

well yes of course. there are perhaps almost as many different ways to interact and feel within our social environment as there as people to do so

. i have just noticed that many people habitually minimize their interaction with others ... and getting their food is one domain where our culture has also evolved to minimize that interaction. It is quite a bit less social to pick a quart of milk from the grocery shelf and scan it myself on the way out the door, than to visit the lady down the block who milked her goat this morning.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-18 14:07:48 17635

It is not antisocial to want not to have to go backwards to agrarian days.

Einaian says

If it comes to having to eat nanobacteria, pink slime or Soylent Green I will fast.

Einaian says

rate change of increase (world population today) / (world population 1940)
& that is with abortion in there. ... via WolframAlpha:

Seth says

Well yes, today's agriculture technology is geared to maximize yield not quality. its all just about money. That is the technology that needs to change ... along with the assumptions that drive it.

Strangely enough the problem of having enough food for everyone was studied in depth and this was the unexpected conclusion: Small-scale organic farming the only way to feed the world. Now i don't know how ovjective that study was, but the trend of larger and larger fields with more and more unnatural methods just feels wrong to me.

I think we need to examine the problem in at least two different types of geographic areas: suburbia+agrarian areas vs dense metropolitan areas. Obviously people in dense metorpolitian areas do not have the space and/or inclination to grow their own food, nor are they even close enough (socially and spatially) to those who do to practically make it work. I think things will happen differently in metropolitan areas than they can in suburbia and agrarian areas.

Who can predict how this will go down ... not me. But the notion that we can't make our own food because there are too many of us; and we need these giant fields run by advanced technology to do it, is a story that just is not true. I wonder who desperately wants us to believe it.

Seth says

source: mark
Don't consider the facts just your own imagination. If I were to be desperate I would believe your viewpoint or maybe try to sustain growing stuff on my own land, CA drought notwithstanding. Money & big business is not the problem - just liberal thinking. Connecting commerce with the government - that is the problem.

Well, I agree: connecting big agriculture to government is a real bad idea. The more we stop politicians from pandering to big agriculture, the better off we all will be. That is part of the political change that needs to happen.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-19 09:59:51 17635

[unrelated to this]

The value of something is a Function(where it is, the timing of exchange(season etc), quality,quantity, & finally its characteristics) . Given enough resources you could grow a garden anywhere, but would you want to. I could grow a vegetable garden on turd hill, but it would take a lot of time & resources to do it which I would rather devote to other things. It is probably against the law to put some chickens back there.

how does that thought inform this revolution of people wanting to make their own food?

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-19 13:09:49 17635

seth 2014-08-19 11:21:25 17635

Einaian 2014-08-19 09:59:51 17635

[unrelated to this]

how does that thought inform this revolution of people wanting to make their own food?

Unless people are giving away their produce you have to consider value. How many onions must I trade for a watermelon? No commerce - no problem. There may be a myopic viewpoint in there somewhere, though.

yeah, obviously people trade value for value even using money or labor as an intermediate value. in the case of the farm stand we gave the produce away but still collected $22 in donations. in the case describe on the top of 17479 i will probably trade 3 or 4 jars of Lina's canned tomatoes for 3 or 4 jars of my roasted pumpkin puree. in a recent case at the healthy horizons farm, i traded jason's labor for eggs, goat milk, and cheese.

i just don't get what aspect you are highlighting here.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-20 11:37:21 17635

I think I said it best previously in that our relationship is defined by my We & your We being different & now I add the venn symbol of NOR for amusement

I am through explaining you can delete it all.

... well what you think we are together ... and what i think we are together ... are almost certainly two different things. To me our relationship is how you affect me and how i affect you.

Is that similar to how you see it too, if not how not? How is that connected to what i said 2014-08-20 06:36:41 ?

Seth says

incidentally, nobody says it must needs be connected. however, if it is connected, then i don't understand how but would like to know. and ... er, right ... you are under no obligation to explain that.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-19 13:13:53 17635

seth 2014-08-19 12:58:46 17635

instances of the food revolution are easy to find ... this is not just my pipe dream!

I have yet to find anyone who knows the fundamental equation of self-producing food for a particular location. How many cows, chickens, watermelons etc will a family of 4 have to produce in order to survive. How much external income is required. Is the income for this family from savings, government or commerce of their own production?

Well i doubt there is a fundamental equation. I have heard some people say they could feed a family on 1/2 acher ... others say you need 10 achers. One big difference is whether you have animals or not ... the more meat, the more land you need. Experience, canning, and planning has a lot to do with it. but yes, i would like to see some practical statistics. but just on the top of my head, with a bit of experience and some help from my fiends, i suspect that my land here around my house is quite enought for my little family and quite a bit of to spare too.

My actual personal problem here is going to be labor, energy, and knowledge. For the extra labor, i know of plenty of people who hang out around the Home depo who will be very happy to do some farm work. And i am finding no shortage of knowledge around here and on the internet. So me thinks that my biggest problem might be my own energy and courage.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-20 10:28:32 17635

seth 2014-08-20 10:15:43 17635

Einaian 2014-08-20 09:38:37 17635

seth 2014-08-20 09:16:50 17635

Einaian 2014-08-20 07:08:28 17635

Take a selfie, dude you are in the revolution, LOL

This formulation showed up in my morning meditation:

I $approx !,$ God particle
Not to be confused with the Higgs Boson
or any other boson
or Bozo

Mark, i have no idea what you are saying.

Please be a bit more direct.

Of course you don't. It has the same coherence as your last.

Yes, but mine really meant something ... at least to me. If you don't understand it, you can always ask questions and i will be glad to clarify. Now what i can get from your's is the one true sentence: "I am in the revolution". That is certainly true and certainly is one interpretation of what i said above. But, mark, to be honest with you the rest of your response just smacks of some kind of attempt to obscure or degrade what i am saying ... er, why would you want to do that?

Not doing that - stop lying! It is actually profound. Yours was confusing at best. Taking a selfie for proof of the revolution was sarcastic.
If you had read it you might have known that I groked it before I saw your incoherence.
I $approx !,$ God particle - is a distinction which quite interesting. But it is distinguished from the Higgs Boson also sometimes called the God particle. etc.

Hmmm ... what may be interesting is to make explicit what you grocked.

Yes i show selfies of me in the revolution to express examples of it. Hopefully you would not want me to hide myself as i do it. I'm glad you approve. (er, if you do, of which i have no real idea)

I don't see how {me as a part of God} is actually in anything i said above ... though of course everything is connected ... but me thinks that is something that you brought to the table. It is part of my philosophy and also has been recently mentioned by d'A. I have no idea how you feel about that thrust as i do not remember you addressing it directly.

But, again, what you hear as incoherence, in what i said above, is exactly what i need to know. If you can express that incoherence, without twisting what i did say to something that i did not say, then we would really get closer to a meeting of minds.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-19 14:00:50 17635

seth 2014-08-19 13:39:10 17635

Einaian 2014-08-19 13:28:45 17635

If you are just interested in your own little experiment you may not have to think outside your own box otherwise maybe so. I suspect there are not too many revolutions hanging out in boxes.
I am more interested in the larger picture. Some say there are many people who know how to multiply, but very few who can add & subtract. IOW, some view a limited success in their own domain as if it could scale up to the whole state, the country & even the planet, but can't add up all the details.
The government is infested with examples of this like the cash for clunkers program. The scale of the program changes parameters when it grows in size. Obamacare really is the best example I know of something that should work but doesn't.

yep, how such a revolution scales is going to be very trikey. i don't have all the answers. that's one reason i like to talk about it.

Curious ! - lol.
That's one reason I am interested because I don't have all the answers. Take that function previously mentioned and add a bunch more parameters then maybe build a neuiral network. That might be my approach. Anyway you are not interested.
Toodle Ooo...

well showing up is building a "neurial network"

.

What function, previously mentioned, are you referring to? ... that seems to have been lost in the static here.

Then too a lot of streams flow together here ... watch for turbulence.

I think it was you who started this term, "show up", and first used it to refer to thoughts ... er, they just show up, and then you asked from where. I noticed just recently that the same description can be used for my own deeds ... in the sense that i show up for something ... that is the same event, same thing, as i do something. It may be a subtle thing to notice, but it is not just in the way it is represented in language, it also, in a very Zen sense, is how it appears in the reality of my experience when it actually works and feels right.

Another confluence here is the old "to act vs to react", "to be a cause in my life vs to let life flow through me", the old don't be a victem, be responsible for what happens edict from the pre new-aged thinking memes that both you and nathan seems to be so gung-ho on. I ran into those myself back in the 70's when i first moved to SanFrancisco. You perhaps remeber my take on that ... that it is not one or the other, it is both, it is a balance, like breathing out and breathing in.

And then of course there is my otherness ... it should be obvious how that is connected to "act vs react" above.

So then we come to the revolution ... do I plan and cause it ... or do I let it flow though me ... or ... err ... do i show up for it? Me, I show up for it ... You, well you do what you will.

Seth says

Einaian 2014-08-21 07:57:26 17635

seth 2014-08-21 07:23:40 17635

We want to make our own food TOO ...

Pakastan woman harvesting her wheat ... thanks Bobby Dar

Silly boy. In some countries people have to grow their own food.
-lol/pml

... lucky them

.

here we relinquish the fun to giant money making machines ... after the money is extracted, very little food is left for our beings ...

... NO THANKS

...

please mom,
i prefer to do it myself

Einaian says

seth 2014-08-21 10:29:35 17635

source: mark
Liberal hate of the capitalistic system & money is not likely to acknowledge that little of the science & technology developed & used today would exist if everyone had to grow their own food. Cultures in parts of the World that have to do so seem behind in their technology & science or they start wars & steal it from those who do. Freedom is the call of the wild - NOT ROBBING HOOD or grow your own. What needs to happen to capitalism is to free it from the slavery of government. What needs to happen to society is free it to love & be human. What needs to happen to the food chain is to free it from unhealthy practices. Don't just take your marbles & go home - if things go bad someone can just come & take them. Transform all of it.

lol

... ok so that is your spin on it. thing is the actual experience of doing it feels quite different. the technology of doing it is also quite different ... its more in the direction of understanding bio-dynamics even to include human behavior and habits in the equation. read this article to get a better flavor of a differnet story than the one you are telling ... notice it is 6 pages long.

for me it is low hanging fruit ... a domain in which i can learn to strike a better balance between my soul and the world. other domains of politics and government and M$M are far too remote for me ... i can have no effect there, only run my mouth ... i can not really show up.

Hey, want a jar of road kill?

Nope - this item is enough road kill for me!

We want to make our own food!

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