Another Point of View on the Ego

About: the book of not-knowing

To fully comprehend paragraph 26:16 & the how to etc similar to [Seth: item 17717] one needs to read a few more of the surrounding paragraphs (or perhaps the entire book) - Maybe wanting to know is also part of the context.
 
Not knowing is a bitch to be mastered !
- M.R. 2014
-
26:15 Even within the domain of self there is a vast array of possibilities. The one most of us are stuck within is a self that is personal, individual, highly conceptual, and sometimes false.  This is a very closed and limited system to maintain.  By nature, it is exclusive rather than inclusive.  But is this the only way to hold "self"?  No--a self could ber identified as almost anything.  Through programming and custom, we certainly identify with the cultural norm--the internal and separate ego, and the body within which this ego seems to reside.  This is only convention, however, and although it may be difficult shift to make, it is possible to "re-identify" what self is, or at least commit whatever self seems to be to something other than the cultural norm.
 
26:16 For example, instead of identifying self as an exclusive, individual body-mind, we could identify self as all of humanity, or as life itself, or even as Absolute Consciousness.  Such a shift from the individual to a larger context radically changes what we experience.  The petty struggles of the individual become insignificant and are replaced by a much broader struggle far outside one's exclusive mind.  Our actions become aligned to principles of an inclusive self-sense, without the pressure or demand that anything work out for us as individual.  When we consider a shift from the exclusive to the inclusive, very different principles become the foundation for our awareness, mind and actions.
 
.....
 
26:20  Communication requires the inclusion of another person, and listening to truly get his or her experience as it is and for-itself, without reacting to it or turning it into something it's not. Communicating your experience to someone necessitates honesty presenting what you actually experience, without serving some other agenda of manipulation.   ...... etc
 
One thing I have been confident most of my life is that I know when & where certain beliefs I hold originated. Such is why I quote so as not to waste the words.
good stuff! thumbs up

Tags

  1. ego
  2. expanding ego
  3. chapter 26

Comments


Einaian says
Please respect Peter & his copyright & do NOT publish this item beyond FastBlogIt.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-02 10:28:34 17721
Yes good stuff ... and well said indeed .

The boundary of what we relate to as self is a bit arbitrary and my personal experience is necessarily exclusive ... in that only I can experience it.  But we can: think, feel, and experience together and even at times agree on what the experience meant.  Sometimes people fight that, if it doesn't kill us, it will make us stronger.
Yep, maybe ....
That new kind of communication that makes wider selves is not necessarily about agreement - such is why the context paragraphs are needed for a groking.



Einaian says
seth 2014-09-02 11:38:31 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 11:17:26 17721
seth 2014-09-02 11:09:43 17721
choy 2014-09-02 10:43:42 17721
seth 2014-09-02 10:28:34 17721
Yes good stuff ... and well said indeed .

The boundary of what we relate to as self is a bit arbitrary and my personal experience is necessarily exclusive ... in that only I can experience it.  But we can: think, feel, and experience together and even at times agree on what the experience meant.  Sometimes people fight that, if it doesn't kill us, it will make us stronger.
Yep, maybe ....
That new kind of communication that makes wider selves is not necessarily about agreement - such is why the context paragraphs are needed for a groking.



Well yes, there must be lots of ways to go from I to We ... agreeing is perhaps just one of them.  But this "new" kind of communication is not just a private affair ... i don't think it will work that way.  It does take at least two to communicate.  But i can imagine whatever privately.  That is quite a different affair, no?
Yep the word "whatever" points to anything, nothing, everything ......

Yes, of course.  My point is carried with the word "imagine" ... which could have been "intuit" or "know" or "believe" ... same things for the sake of this context.   My point was the distinction between exclusively private experience (PR used the word "personal") and shared experience.   PR's thought, at least in what you quoted, did not make that point.   I thought it might be worth extending our thinking that extra step. 
Yeah - I won't quote the whole book. A lot may be there in the "distinction" thingy. Dualism is not the answer in the back of the book.  You munged a bunch of words that are distinct, eh?


Einaian says
seth 2014-09-02 11:09:43 17721
choy 2014-09-02 10:43:42 17721
seth 2014-09-02 10:28:34 17721
Yes good stuff ... and well said indeed .

The boundary of what we relate to as self is a bit arbitrary and my personal experience is necessarily exclusive ... in that only I can experience it.  But we can: think, feel, and experience together and even at times agree on what the experience meant.  Sometimes people fight that, if it doesn't kill us, it will make us stronger.
Yep, maybe ....
That new kind of communication that makes wider selves is not necessarily about agreement - such is why the context paragraphs are needed for a groking.



Well yes, there must be lots of ways to go from I to We ... agreeing is perhaps just one of them.  But this "new" kind of communication is not just a private affair ... i don't think it will work that way.  It does take at least two to communicate.  But i can imagine whatever privately.  That is quite a different affair, no?
The new kind of communications follows from some of the exercises like "I am experiencing you .. experiencing me ... experiencing you" etc.  spoke of it before. If your self must hold that direct experience is not possible then direct communication will suffer.


Einaian says
seth 2014-09-02 12:50:57 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 12:27:15 17721
I still imagine a play similar to Waiting for Godot in which a bunch of acid-heads sit around a common logic style table talking about the end of the world & existence long after it happened as the final state of entropy.

indeed.

incidentally what exists or does not exist is unimportant ... it's above my pay grade.    Me, I care more for what i experience or don't experience.   So you won't find me around that particular common logic table .
Minimum wage, eh?

Seth says
Einaian 2014-09-02 15:16:01 17721
seth 2014-09-02 12:50:57 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 12:27:15 17721
I still imagine a play similar to Waiting for Godot in which a bunch of acid-heads sit around a common logic style table talking about the end of the world & existence long after it happened as the final state of entropy.

indeed.

incidentally what exists or does not exist is unimportant ... it's above my pay grade.    Me, I care more for what i experience or don't experience.   So you won't find me around that particular common logic table .
Minimum wage, eh?

yeah they don't pay me shit

Einaian says
seth 2014-09-02 12:05:17 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 12:02:10 17721
seth 2014-09-02 12:00:52 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 11:51:00 17721
seth 2014-09-02 11:38:31 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 11:17:26 17721
seth 2014-09-02 11:09:43 17721
choy 2014-09-02 10:43:42 17721
seth 2014-09-02 10:28:34 17721
Yes good stuff ... and well said indeed .

The boundary of what we relate to as self is a bit arbitrary and my personal experience is necessarily exclusive ... in that only I can experience it.  But we can: think, feel, and experience together and even at times agree on what the experience meant.  Sometimes people fight that, if it doesn't kill us, it will make us stronger.
Yep, maybe ....
That new kind of communication that makes wider selves is not necessarily about agreement - such is why the context paragraphs are needed for a groking.



Well yes, there must be lots of ways to go from I to We ... agreeing is perhaps just one of them.  But this "new" kind of communication is not just a private affair ... i don't think it will work that way.  It does take at least two to communicate.  But i can imagine whatever privately.  That is quite a different affair, no?
Yep the word "whatever" points to anything, nothing, everything ......

Yes, of course.  My point is carried with the word "imagine" ... which could have been "intuit" or "know" or "believe" ... same things for the sake of this context.   My point was the distinction between exclusively private experience (PR used the word "personal") and shared experience.   PR's thought, at least in what you quoted, did not make that point.   I thought it might be worth extending our thinking that extra step. 
Yeah - I won't quote the whole book. A lot may be there in the "distinction" thingy. Dualism is not the answer in the back of the book.  You munged a bunch of words that are distinct, eh?


Oh i really munged something together that you hold as distinct ... what specifically?
the words imagine intuit know believe .....

Well bear in mind that i did not say that [imagination], intuition, and knowledge are the same thing .... i just said rather that in the context of private vs shared or public, they have the same salient properties.
Be aware that you munged them together for your agenda - if you don't know the difference it may appear that they are private.  Anyway I am leaving this discussion for the time being.
...(maybe later)

Einaian says
I still imagine a play similar to Waiting for Godot in which a bunch of acid-heads sit around a common logic style table talking about the end of the world & existence long after it happened as the final state of entropy.


Einaian says
seth 2014-09-02 12:17:19 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 12:12:52 17721
seth 2014-09-02 12:03:27 17721
Einaian 2014-09-02 11:58:37 17721
Satisfaction with the Meta-World may end up being your highest attainment.

hey, i love the metaworld ... strange that you have not noticed ...
I've noticed a lot. Kinda what Robin Williams thingy was about existence rather than existence.

Huh?   did you really mean "existence rather than existence" ... maybe a typo, huh? ... because i don't know how to think "existence rather than existence" in any way that is meaningful to me.
probably should have bolded the about.

Mark de LA says
seth 2016-01-31 11:27:02 [item 17721#44085]
Well PR’s words …
26:15 “When we consider a shift from the exclusive to the inclusive, very different principles become the foundation for our awareness, mind and actions.”

26:20  Communication requires the inclusion of another person, and listening to truly get his or her experience as it is and for-itself, without reacting to it or turning it into something it's not. Communicating your experience to someone necessitates honesty presenting what you actually experience, without serving some other agenda of manipulation. 

are dealing with the same topic i was dealing with in Dialectics and Not in your network and even Blank To Each Other.  It is about a man’s relationship to other men, and to his society, and to life itself.    This topic has many aspects … i’m gathering some of those in a private summary thought now for focus on the bigger edges.  It is not a topic which, me thinks,  we can usefully study, if we let our own egos and agendas and stories take center stage.  I think the study needs of a certain objectivity.  With that in mind i am looking forward to listening and thinking about these ego topics.
I think the short answer is NO! smug

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