If we think, feel, and act like it matters, then it does.




It's strange ... I was going through my pictures trying to find some picture to illustrate this item.  It slowly dawned on me that i could have selected any picture.  Any thing depicted in them  matters to me in some regard ... otherwise i would have already deleted the picture.

Tags

  1. it matters
  2. freedom
  3. humanity
  4. meaning

Comments


Seth says
Einaian 2014-09-05 08:40:17 17736
If your story about makes you sick - tell yourself a different  story.

Well yes certainly how i construct my metaworld will allow all manner of perceptions ... some will feel much better than others.  For example if you are restraining me and burning my hand, i can culture an appreciation of pain ... er, become a machocist.  That does not, however, stop you from burning my hand.  This idea that we unilaterally construct all of our reality and have total control of it, also denies that you can effect me and that i can effect you.  Sorry, not my cup of tea.

Whether something matters or not is dependent on a mind.  The only question is who's ... mine? ... yours? ... ours?  ... the countries?  some scientific community?    I can unilaterally make something matter to myself ... i can not make it matter to you ...  for it to mater to both of us, we both need believe and agree that it does. 

Seth says
source: mark
Hmmm.... does this comment matter?
.. I'll get
well if comments are targeted to at least create a possibility of increasing our awareness, then they would matter.  that of course is my judgement.  like i said, if i think it matters, and act and feel accordingly, then it does.  if you want comments  to be meaningless, well then they surly will be meaningless to you.  However, if we want this to matter, then both of us have to agree that it matters and act accordingly.  This is really very simple.  

Whether it matters or not is the kind of things that are exclusively in our metaworlds.  I actually don't expect that will conflict with anything in your mind. 

The exciting thing about a freedom to create our humanity is the scary fact that we do it ourselves.   OMG!  Inevitably there will be no training wheels.

Seth says

choy 2014-09-05 17:32:37 17736
Then too sometimes some things matter & sometimes they don't & at other times some things just don't & other things matter. ...etc. lol


.. & that even goes to sometimes they matter to you the same way but not to me & visa versa.


yeah sure there are all kinds of permutations.   as far as i can tell, the only permutation that matters from the perspective of humanity is the one where people agree with each other what matters.

Seth says
Incidentally I am saying just about the same thing that Erhard is saying ...

source: Essays By Laurence Platt Inspired By The Ideas Of Werner Erhard

This is "Life is empty and meaningless ... and  ... it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless". This is an experience  rather than a philosophy, rather than a belief system, rather than merely another item on the agenda for the debating society. You either have  the experience, or you don't - which is to say, you either distinguish  the experience, or you don't. Whether you agree  with the experience or not, whether you believe  in it or not, whether you argue against it or for it, is actually irrelevant.

...

We are  that "Life is empty and meaningless" is neither palatable nor plausible, and it doesn't become palatable or plausible either, until we own and take responsibility for assigning meaning  to everything in Life. What is the meaning of a rock? What is the meaning of an hour? What is the meaning of war? What is the meaning of pleasure? I reach the frontier of transformation in the instant I take responsibility for whatever meaning a rock has, for whatever meaning an hour has, for whatever meaning war has, for whatever meaning pleasure has. It isn't intrinsic to the rock. It isn't intrinsic to the hour. It isn't intrinsic to war. It isn't intrinsic to pleasure. In and of itself, a rock has no meaning. In and of itself, an hour has no meaning. In and of itself, war has no meaning. In and of itself, pleasure has no meaning. Whatever meaning they have is whatever meaning I, in my very best of being human, assign to them.

The moment I own that, the moment I distinguish I assign meaning to them (in other words, the moment I discover I - not they - am the source of their meaning), the moment I confront the meaning‑making machine  I am, is a moment of pure joy, the onset of unbridled freedom.

In other words in this context, nothing matters in and of itself.  What happens is that we make it matter to us

... or i suppose you can do it privately just for yourself ... make something matter just to you ... that is fun too .



Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-06 07:20:39 17736

choy 2014-09-05 17:32:37 17736
Then too sometimes some things matter & sometimes they don't & at other times some things just don't & other things matter. ...etc. lol


.. & that even goes to sometimes they matter to you the same way but not to me & visa versa.


yeah sure there are all kinds of permutations.   as far as i can tell, the only permutation that matters from the perspective of humanity is the one where people agree with each other what matters.
I would say that matters sometimes for some things but not for others. Who is doing the judging? Does someone take a poll?  Do they all agree on what the poll says or does it matter? ... still in a loop.
.. laughter matters a lot but not always.


einaiani says
einaiani 2014-09-06 11:22:29 17736
Incidentally, under the influence of WE via Landmark Education I wrote the header for group mark which is 15401 by itself.
Originally, I announced it to the group ~100 people as:
I AM THE POSSIBILITY THAT EACH & EVERYONE OF YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER IN A WORLD THAT WORKS POWERFULLY FOR ALL OF US
...
WE(Werner Erhard) was heavy on stating your Ego-Identity & the future as possibility etc.


Seth says
choy 2014-09-06 09:49:35 17736
seth 2014-09-06 07:20:39 17736

choy 2014-09-05 17:32:37 17736
Then too sometimes some things matter & sometimes they don't & at other times some things just don't & other things matter. ...etc. lol


.. & that even goes to sometimes they matter to you the same way but not to me & visa versa.


yeah sure there are all kinds of permutations.   as far as i can tell, the only permutation that matters from the perspective of humanity is the one where people agree with each other what matters.
I would say that matters sometimes for some things but not for others. Who is doing the judging? Does someone take a poll?  Do they all agree on what the poll says or does it matter? ... still in a loop.
.. laughter matters a lot but not always.


seems you are looking for some kind of logical certainty in this regard which obviously does not exist.  we do live in a very fuzzy world relative to that kind of academic logical certainty.  so, no, you will not find any certainty (or even strong identity) in any consensual reality.  How long have you been living in this world anyway?  what seems strange to me is that you think my model here requires that kind of strong certainty and identity ... whereas both of our experience tells us it does not.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-06 22:01:09 17736
choy 2014-09-06 09:49:35 17736
seth 2014-09-06 07:20:39 17736

choy 2014-09-05 17:32:37 17736
Then too sometimes some things matter & sometimes they don't & at other times some things just don't & other things matter. ...etc. lol


.. & that even goes to sometimes they matter to you the same way but not to me & visa versa.


yeah sure there are all kinds of permutations.   as far as i can tell, the only permutation that matters from the perspective of humanity is the one where people agree with each other what matters.
I would say that matters sometimes for some things but not for others. Who is doing the judging? Does someone take a poll?  Do they all agree on what the poll says or does it matter? ... still in a loop.
.. laughter matters a lot but not always.


seems you are looking for some kind of logical certainty in this regard which obviously does not exist.  we do live in a very fuzzy world relative to that kind of academic logical certainty.  so, no, you will not find any certainty (or even strong identity) in any consensual reality.  How long have you been living in this world anyway?  what seems strange to me is that you think my model here requires that kind of strong certainty and identity ... whereas both of our experience tells us it does not.
Yeah, you seem to be on another planet but thanks for the opportunity to wave good bye.
None of what you say applies from my viewpoint.
ZZzz..

Seth says
choy 2014-09-06 10:03:45 17736
I tend to agree with Werner .... your IOW maybe your own context might be something else. His coaching has been that life is empty & meaningless & that doesn't mean anything... which PR also picked up in zen context.
So what you do with it is what you do with it. Seth may be giving it meaning.  Whether anyone else signs on to what he gives it depends upon a bunch of stuff; mostly his integrity of who he is as a possibility of being for human beings. .... etc.

Shift to a context of Magick & you get:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Love is the Law, Love under will.

Shift to a context of Christ & one can get at least the Golden Rule.




Well Werner's thought did not stop with Nihlism ... and as you say extends to, "So what you do with it is what you do with it".  I like the way i said it above better.

The message here, however, goes even beyond what seems to me a frivolous obsession with self to include what we are doing here.  It seems a hard concept for people to sign on to ... especially in this me-me culture in which we live.  I am not sure i have it right for myself yet ... perhaps not even close ... i'm still working on it .... but being oblivious to what we do together is to be oblivious to the most powerful part of our humanity, notwithstanding how easily it can be corrupted.  Giving up on we is just not something that i am going to do.

Incidentally the Christian message and the golden rule are mostly about we, not I. 

The beautiful part is that everyone is free to establish this special relationship between I and we  according to their own will.  Yours seems quite preferential for the former, mine a bit more open to the latter.  I think it is high time we allow each other to be different in this regard.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-07 09:50:32 17736
Mark 2014-09-07 09:37:49 17736
Everything I say comes back at me from you as otherness or you already said it or said it better.
That's kewl,
~
It seems like you & I are on a different planets
That seems like your WE includes others on Planet Seth but not me.
...
.. seems more like a bunch of monologues of otherness than a synergy of individuals.


well cause and effect is a bitch!   Can you not see that  "WE includes others on Planet Seth but not me" is a direct consequence of everything you saying tries to destroy what i say, regardless of whether you yourself have also said it ?

Maybe try doing it the opposite way and see if the synergy increases.
I'm off to a different planet.  Having kewl conversation with an inhabitant on a different planet in another channel.


Seth says
ok fine ... reminds me of this little demonstration of cooperation or a lack thereof

Seth says
Mark 2014-09-07 09:19:40 17736
seth 2014-09-07 09:12:33 17736
source: mark
Kewl! Planet Seth ... good to know.

Huh ... "planet seth" .... where do you get that .... seems to me that i am quite in step with most of the ethics and religious messages extant ... perhaps is is you and the rest of the me-me crowd that are on on your own planet literally and figuratively.
Yep, "in step" is subjective. Planet Seth is the one where argumentation is the coin of the realm, difference & otherness is proof, & the Moon of Bozo is Full (of whatever?) 100% of the time.


Oh come on now Mark.  That is just you rubbing your ego directly against mine.   In your scenario there, we are still interacting ... only negatively ... to destroy each other rather than to build each other up.   Strangely enought that kind of interacting ends up dieing ... it will, necessarily, even mathematically, give way to those who interact positively.   But, hey, your choice ... i have some things that matter to focus on today.

Seth says
Mark 2014-09-07 09:22:50 17736
seth 2014-09-07 09:16:42 17736
Mark 2014-09-07 09:01:14 17736
BTW, in othernessness people give & construct meanings to stuff, life etc. at least at the level of human being.




well i certainly agree that "people give and construct meaning to stuff, life, etc at the level of human being"

But what does it mean to do that "in othernessness" ?   That is intreguing, but what does it mean?
It is otherness with emphasis doubly strengthened on the "ness" part of the suffix. Another thought is that it achieves meaning is a process of double abstraction.


as far as i can tell, it does not work that way.

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