Christianity should not be portrayed as a personal romance


source: unspecified

Jesus was more than a man
And as He invites us too seek Him, holding out His hand,
Will we follow, or keep building on sand?


... when i hear examples of this portrayal of romance, i will collect them here.

--------- vs ----------

So what does a personal relationship with Jesus Christ satisfy, what does it fulfill?

Well in today's world a personal savior makes tolerable society treating us as interchangeable parts ... and being oblivious to each other.  Much better would be if we did this.

So i guess what i am saying is that i don't want a Jesus to have to save me from that anonymous interchangeable carelessness and kiss and bandage my booboo ... rather, i want it to be us doing it.   I just think a individual personal relationship with Jesus Christ dilutes the thrust of what wants to happen here.  That is unless you and I and the rest of us actually are Christ.  I think that is what RS was saying.  But that Christ-in-me is not the usual teaching of Christian churches.  They almost teach the opposite.

... or said by somebody else , found by a search on "body of Christ" :

source: C.S. Lewis

“Christianity thinks of human individuals not as mere members of a group or items in a list, but as organs in a body"different from one another and each contributing what no other could. When you find yourself wanting to turn your children, or pupils, or even your neighbors, into people exactly like yourself, remember that God probably never meant them to be that. You and they are different organs, intended to do different things.

On the other hand, when you are tempted not to bother about someone else’s troubles because they are 'no business of yours,' remember that though he is different from you he is part of the same organism as you. If you forget that he belongs to the same organism as yourself you will become an Individualist. If you forget that he is a different organ from you, if you want to suppress differences and make people all alike, you will become a Totalitarian. But a Christian must not be either a Totalitarian or an Individualist.

I feel a strong desire to tell you"and I expect you feel a strong desire to tell me"which of these two errors is the worse. That is the devil getting at us. He always sends errors into the world in pairs"pairs of opposites. And he always encourages us to spend a lot of time thinking which is the worse. You see why, of course? He relies on your extra dislike of the one error to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight through between both errors. We have no other concern than that with either of them.”

I am sure many have talked of this mosaic networked body constructed of individual human beings ... and have called it "the body of Christ" ... and have gloried in being just a cell within it. 

The trick is not to carry over all the evils of a collective into this body. For example, mob behavior and not taking responsibility.  

And if somebody has prejudices against Christianity ... no problem ... just call the humanity body whatever works for you. 

... so now, forget Ayn Rand, forget glorying in egotism ... glory in wegotism ... and we can start working out the kinks () in those attitudes.

Tags

  1. christianity
  2. collections
  3. wegotism
  4. ego
  5. humanity
  6. leviathan
  7. jesus
  8. personal god
  9. romance

Comments


Mark de LA says
society is an abstract for us.

Mark de LA says
GW has the guardian angel in the middle.
jurn


Seth says
Einai 2014-09-16 11:59:13 17769
Don't nuns wear a wedding ring to Jesus?
Whatever gets you through the day. What happens when you project your Ego into that relationship?


Good question.  Seems to me that Chistianity is all about the personal relationship of my ego to something else grander.  That relationship is quite clearly perscribed in Christianity:  Jesus loves me ... I love Jesus.  The message is quite clear:  Jesus is personal with me ... I am personal with him ... he knows me ... he loves me ... i know him .... i love him ... and am suppose to feel very personal with him like i would another man or woman.  I am presuming the message uses our experience of a romantic nature with other mortals as a metaphor.  

Me, i am not so very sure that the metaphor works for me ... and i rather suspect that many who call themselves "Christian" are confused by how this metaphor is supposed to work.  

Perhaps i should ask a nun.

Seth says
Einai 2014-09-17 07:42:39 17769
society is an abstract for us.

Well yeah one could have written the paragraph using the word "us" instead of "society".   Let's see if it means the same thing:

It would come out like this:
Well in today's world a personal savior makes tolerable us treating us as interchangeable parts ... and we being oblivious to ourselves. 

Thing is, when I personally do not identify with that which i am moving in, i do not call it a "us",  rather i call it a "them".   In other words, if society really is the same as me and you in some particular context, well then we would not be treating us as interchangeable parts and we would not be oblivious to ourselves.  That kind of is the salient point here in the context of Christianity.

So i must use this plural noun here to express my thought accurately. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-17 09:48:08 17769
source: mark
Yeah ... the old us vs them thingy - the individual versus the collective, 
Yep, the relationship between me and the world ... and/or me and society ... and/or me and you ... is what this is all about.  I think it is what Christianity is all about too ... even in RS's world view.
but in this case the collective is amorphous to most
Yes again ... most people are real hazy about what the world, society, and other people are to them.   Even myself included.  I'm thinking that is why i keep working on it. 
and for others like Bozo it is an "in my network" thingy.
Still yes ... some people and spirits are in my network ... others are not.  I'm thinking that is the same thing that you do when you say "all views are not equal". 
an interlinear agreement frame 
"all viewpoints are not equal" is slightly different more like the teeter-totter. Gangs of thugs as a group is not equivalent to a bunch of people shopping in Walmart minding their own business ... etc.



Mark de LA says
My beef is simply this if one munges away responsibility for behavior one gets the problems you mention & if one looks at it closely one gets 17748.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-17 09:33:16 17769
Einai 2014-09-17 08:57:04 17769
Interesting Twitter account related to some of this here. (of course who divines or defines the greater good unless by the principle of the Golden Rule)


ok i followed it ...
do you have a twitter account ? ... mine is @SethRussell ... but i don't tweet often ... more just my own blog, facebook, and G+.  But maybe my pithy stuff i should always tweet. 


I think anything worth calling "the greater good" could not be defined by just a representation of a rubric.


Well it is as good as some of your diagrams & is a fairly good meme.

Seth says
source: mark
Yeah ... the old us vs them thingy - the individual versus the collective, 
Yep, the relationship between me and the world ... and/or me and society ... and/or me and you ... is what this is all about.  I think it is what Christianity is all about too ... even in RS's world view.
but in this case the collective is amorphous to most
Yes again ... most people are real hazy about what the world, society, and other people are to them.   Even myself included.  I'm thinking that is why i keep working on it. 
and for others like Bozo it is an "in my network" thingy.
Still yes ... some people and spirits are in my network ... others are not.  I'm thinking that is the same thing that you do when you say "all views are not equal". 

Seth says
Einai 2014-09-17 09:53:46 17769
seth 2014-09-17 09:48:08 17769 
Still yes ... some people and spirits are in my network ... others are not.  I'm thinking that is the same thing that you do when you say "all views are not equal". 

"all viewpoints are not equal" is slightly different more like the teeter-totter. Gangs of thugs as a group is not equivalent to a bunch of people shopping in Walmart minding their own business ... etc.



Well you have choosen examples anecdotally peculiar to  justifying the difference that you seem to  require
.  Thugs rioting are criminals relative to society ... people shopping are doing their private thing relative to society. 

That I take sides is me saying that all views are not equal relative to me.  It is my judgement relative to me.  We each of us in this society are free to adopt a unique peculiar view ... the networked mosaic of which makes up what society is. 

I think your teeter totter is just my view, your view ... like in a collage ... now you looking out through this picture ... now you looking out through that picture.  That one view is not equal to the rest is just because it is closest to yours of the moment.  You want it to be more than just that ... me, i don't think it is.   Sorry, freedom is free to choose ... with no prerequisite correctness.

Mark de LA says
BTW, the whole discussion of Christianity is basically peculiar anyway. My thoughts basically are in 17759 . Meta about Christ is not Christ.  Meta about Christianity is not Christianity.


Seth says
Einai 2014-09-17 10:21:12 17769
seth 2014-09-17 10:12:16 17769
Einai 2014-09-17 08:44:56 17769
My beef is simply this if one munges away responsibility for behavior one gets the problems you mention & if one looks at it closely one gets 17748.


Well not being responsible for your actions will make for bad ones.  The same goes for a group in which you act.   That just is the way things are.  

How does that relate to anything i have said here? 

How does that relate to Jesus being a personal savior?

really i'm trying to get the connection you are making ... your "beef" as you call it.  And, no, i am not getting it. 
"Well in today's world a personal savior makes tolerable us treating us as interchangeable parts ... and we being oblivious to ourselves" - goes to individual versus the collective which may have disappeared somewhere in your mind after your above lament (?).


wierd, why would you think it "disappeared somewhere in my mind" when i had just said it and repeated it several times in several different wordings?
.

anyway here is an even more precise statement of it, sans your complaint about "us" vs "society" and with the ending syntax clarified:

"Well in today's world a personal savior makes tolerable us treating us as interchangeable parts ... and we being oblivious to eachother. "  Why?  Well if nobody else loves us and makes us important and meaningful, at least Jesus does.  He is our personal savior. 

Personally i like the idea of considering that obnoxious behavior to be in that part of the network in which i am not intricately involved ... i want it to be otherness to me ... i don't want to do that obnoxious stuff  ... hence it is not me, not us ... rather it is just what parts of society does.  

So i guess what i am saying is that i don't want a Jesus to have to save me from that anonomous interchangeable carelessness and kiss and bandage my booboo ... rather, i want it to be us doing it.   I just think a individual personal relationship with Jesus Christ dilutes the thrust of what wants to happen here.  That is unless you and I and the rest of us actually are Christ.  I think that is what RS was saying.  But that Christ-in-me is not the teaching of the Christian churches.  They almost teach the opposite.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-18 08:49:13 17769
choy 2014-09-18 08:44:29 17769
seth 2014-09-18 08:22:27 17769
choy 2014-09-18 07:22:14 17769
seth 2014-09-18 07:06:02 17769
choy 2014-09-18 06:51:30 17769
72 virgins versus 1 male - - maybe Islam has a better deal, eh?

Shirley, you jest .  I can imagine that,  at its heart, every religion has a way of pandering to some human weakness.  I suppose that, if i were to invent a perfect religion from the core of my being, it would end up pandering as well. 
the Christian-branded religion is selling salvation (saving one's soul) ... what are you selling?

A lot of the Eastern religions are selling Satori or Nirvana


strangely enough i'm not sure what i am selling, if anything, ... maybe just pumpkins.   but, no, i am not buying salvation .... and, no,  i am not buying satori. 
Yep, you appear to be "selling" your viewpoint on some aspect of the Christian-branded religion.
& ,,
Nope! it is not mine.


fair enough.  

but now i am curious ... are you buying salvation? ... are you buying satori ?
I align more with the Anthroposophical weltanshauung & things which are non linear unlike the question.
- Love is non-linear

Seth says
choy 2014-09-18 08:44:29 17769
seth 2014-09-18 08:22:27 17769
choy 2014-09-18 07:22:14 17769
seth 2014-09-18 07:06:02 17769
choy 2014-09-18 06:51:30 17769
72 virgins versus 1 male - - maybe Islam has a better deal, eh?

Shirley, you jest .  I can imagine that,  at its heart, every religion has a way of pandering to some human weakness.  I suppose that, if i were to invent a perfect religion from the core of my being, it would end up pandering as well. 
the Christian-branded religion is selling salvation (saving one's soul) ... what are you selling?

A lot of the Eastern religions are selling Satori or Nirvana


strangely enough i'm not sure what i am selling, if anything, ... maybe just pumpkins.   but, no, i am not buying salvation .... and, no,  i am not buying satori. 
Yep, you appear to be "selling" your viewpoint on some aspect of the Christian-branded religion.
& ,,
Nope! it is not mine.


fair enough.  

but now i am curious ... are you buying salvation? ... are you buying satori ?

Seth says
I just do not want  Heaven, Hell, Nirvana, After Life, Salvation from them, and Glory in an apart-inaccessible being to become a distraction and an excuse from what i think-feel-do in my life  and the lives of those around me.  for me its one of those focus thingies ... like your direct experience.  for this experience to be real, it must be direct experience ... being human is what i actually directly do experience ... and we humans together make of that experience what it is. 

It's almost a subject/object thingie.  I and humanity are our subject ... we are not the object of something else ... nor is some other object more important to us than what we make of our lives and what that creates.  The Christ in me and in us is what works for me ... sorry I don't need a romance with an otherness guy. 

But of course that is just me ... everybody gets to do this just as they will ... I am sure you have it all balanced sublimely Your way. 

Seth says
Incidentally i still think it is fun to honestly communicate between radically different world views.   The trick, of course is not to make that communication just rgb. 

Mark de LA says
Thanks for the self-dump !

Seth says
There is lots of scripture supporting this idea of a humanity body.  But strange how most religions talk of this, but when i comes right down to it, point people in another direction (Church, Jehad, love of Jesus, personal Nirvana, or some other career in a Spiritual world, etc).  Nobody just comes out and relates a reality that we create a whole being by cooperating with each other and that is the most important thing that our individual lives are doing here.

Seth says
i havent watched this yet, but does it shed light on this item?

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