Syrian War

About: the long war journal

The bombs now falling in Syria. Is there a coalition - presumably so.

Tags

  1. drums of war syria
  2. trump
  3. Syria
  4. tyranny
  5. DrumsOfWar
  6. DrumsOfWarSyria
  7. consequences
  8. WarCrime
  9. damed
  10. TrumpWorldView
  11. manifestations
  12. manifesting
  13. own
  14. judgement
  15. consequence
  16. credit
  17. blame
  18. ISIS
  19. Obama
  20. AlreadyAlwaysArguing
  21. AntiTrumpism
  22. murder
  23. NikiHaley
  24. RealGoldenRule
  25. IDC
  26. assad
  27. bagdadi

Comments


Seth says
Well too bad you could not appreciate my comparison of two dynamics  with examples on each side ... i thought it was nicely symmetrical and stood quite as a coherent whole

There is a dynamic that i still think we can agree upon:  Sometimes when you fight a thing it gets stronger not weaker.  Your crusade against "We" was a case in point.  The question is whether going to war with  ISIS is going to have that same dynamic?

... but as to me proffering an opinion on that, I am very glad my judgement is not needed.  

Mark de LA says
Climate change WE - trash NY for what?

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/2014/09/garbage-march-for-climate/


Seth says
Einai 2014-09-23 07:31:21 17783
Lets see if the Bozo in the White House can muster World Support to stamp out this evil of ISIL.
See the Wikipedia here.  Does the UN have any moral persuasion backed up with teeth or is it just a bloated debating society. Or will the usual power polarities, Soviets, Chinese, Middle East & America jockey for their own economic & power influence.
*
Some say that the task of this era is to develop consciousness & love which transforms evil.
source: ...

Truth beauty & goodness are necessarily founded on falsehood, ugliness & evil, which are as manure to grow roses!"

...


Well sometimes things transform, and one is "founded on" the other ... other times things struggle against each other and get stronger.  An example of the latter is your opposition to my use of "we", which now i frequently use, and use it better.  I'm worried that the USA trying to win over ISIL will end up making it worse ... or, from its point view, better.   I think  Bush's intervention in the Middle East made it worse, and now ISIL shows up there.  Maybe we will live long enough to see what this new war will bring ... but i fear when it is a ego/wego right/wrong sided issue, the latter frequently is the consequence.

Mark de LA says
Yeah, you crammed so much shit in one paragraph that I'm going to ignore most of it.

An example of the ignominious WE is political correctness & political speeches & commentary of the M$M & politicians.  It starts & finishes wars, political parties & destroys the minds of school children & adults.  The illusion that the UN is a WE is laughable.  Evolution takes those that do not choose eventually to metamorphose to something better & leaves them behind at a fork in the road.
Fork'em!
ISIL may just be one of those things. S Hussein was left behind in 2 pieces. The Iraqui people had a chance but muffed it without the help that we left behind in Japan, Germany & Europe because of his political persuasion. The jury is out on Obama's community organizing. So far it looks like a grade of D-
The only WE I actually know is those I have talked to personally & even then there are caveats. A consistent train of thought & world outlook over many years, books & lectures also persuades, but in the case of RS & GW I still use my own consciousness & experience & testing as the final judge.
Ego-wego munging notwithstanding.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-23 12:18:42 17783
Well too bad you could not appreciate my comparison of two dynamics  with examples on each side ... i thought it was nicely symmetrical and stood quite as a coherent whole

There is a dynamic that i still think we can agree upon:  Sometimes when you fight a thing it gets stronger not weaker.  Your crusade against "We" was a case in point.  The question is whether going to war with  ISIS is going to have that same dynamic?

... but as to me proffering an opinion on that, I am very glad my judgement is not needed.  
Too bad you could not appreciate my comments re evolution & forking-it & dealing with evil.
Sigh.
If you fight a stronger enemy you will get weaker. If you fight an enemy that has no bounds & could be said to channel evil itself such is terrorism, you may loose.  If your enemy lies & has political correctness M$M as a co-conspirator you may lose. I think the art of War (Sun Tzu) would advise retreat in such cases.
You never did acknowledge that the editorial WE in your writings is really just you .
The terrorists always try to look like a larger force of WE than they really are & others even weaker try to join up as long as they hate the same people or are killing the same enemies.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-23 15:43:15 17783
Einai 2014-09-23 10:22:52 17783


..............................................................................................................................

It might be interesting to ponder, which sentence is the better truth ....

"We want to impeach Obama."  or "We want climate action."

WORTH
DOING!
NOT WORTH DOING
Hypocrisy of an anti-capitalist climate change rally making all that trash & flying in private jets is enough for me.  Might as well compare garter snakes to toilet paper rolls.
.. I think Obama is safe from impeachment as long as that fool Biden is still VP.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-23 14:42:36 17783
source: mark
You never did acknowledge that the editorial WE in your writings is really just you .
Well I did not think it even needed to be acknowledged, since everything i say is just me saying it.  I endeavour to always write sentences that ring true to me.  When i use "we" in a sentence, i am saying that i believe there is a group of people to whom that sentence also rings true.  It says quite a different thing than implying that something is only true to myself.  The "we" subject of the sentence is frequently the most important part of what i am asserting.  Obviously, and without a necessity of it being pointed out, everybody in my audience is free to include or exclude themselves from the group to which i refer with "we".  That is a key feature of how we individually are connected to a group in which we may, or may not, consider ourselves members.  Me thinks it is useful to be able to refer to the mego of a group ... "We" gives us that ability. 

But, hey, if you don't like it, how about we take "I" out of your vocabulary ...see how it will effect what you can express. 
stupid.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-09-23 15:24:38 17783
Incidentally, it just dawned on me, the "you" pronoun, which you frequently use,  suffers from the very same "editorial WE " problem that seems to get your panties all in a bunch.  To me your uses of  "you" are even more ignominious, for I have found that almost every sentence that you pen with "you" (me) as the subject, rings  false over here.  They hit my ears as lies about me.

So how about we agree not to use "you" and not to use "we" ... that is unless it is said intentionally with all due awareness of the deictic context of the egos involved?
When I use "you" I mean you. You may not like it as in the phrase "fuck you!" but that's life. Most of the time I am drawing out the implications of what you are saying or the rwg you are playing from my perspective as separate from your me,I .


Mark de LA says
When people try to make CO2 (what we breath out & plants take in) a NO-NO & tax it globally in spite of China & India not agreeing that is anti-capitalist.


Mark de LA says
Drums of war – still going on in Syria – http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/04/at-least-100-dead-in-suspected-chemical-attack-in-syria-hospital-reportedly-hit.html 

Seth says

Which news needs to be informed by the recent “change in policy”
towards Bashar Assad as reported here and elsewhere  …

 

Just days ago, Donald Trump announced that the U.S. no longer had any problem with the regime of Syrian president, and Russian ally, Bashar Assad.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said the U.S. approach was being driven by a new "reality" and that Assad’s future had to be a decision for the Syrian people. Similar statements were made earlier by U.S. Cabinet members speaking in Ankara, London and at the United Nations.

Yes, Syrian people, like the thousands who died in Aleppo under withering artillery and constant bombing, will just have to vote Assad out at the next completely fair and free elections.

Now Assad has a nice thank you for Trump. 

Airstrikes hit the city of Khan Sheikhoun in Idlib province at 6:30 a.m. Tuesday, giving off a "poisonous gas," according to Anas al-Diab, an activist with the Aleppo Media Center.

The casualties reportedly came as a result of asphyxiation caused by exposure to an unknown gas or chemical agent.

tag #DrumsOfWar #DrumsOfWarSyria

Seth says
Now me  as an American, almost agree with the #trump administration on this new policy ….
 
Why should we defend the people of #Syria against #tyranny ? …. what is in it for us? 

… but there are #consequences which we must own … we see some in the news today.

tag #DrumsOfWar #DrumsOfWarSyria

Mark de LA says
Except that gassing one’s own people is a War Crime – I doubt Trump was supporting that.  Lots of luck trying to get the UN to take up prosecution for it. 

Seth says
i doubt #Trump cares it is a #WarCrime. 
His only criteria →  is it good for America
#consequences to others be #damed.

That is the very nature  & #manifestations this new #TrumpWorldView is producing.

Mark de LA says
I think you are fucked up on that thought.  His promise is to quit being the world’s policeman & focus more on keeping the USA prosperous & strong not like Obama’s giving everything away in appeasement to the rest of the world.  Different folks use different strokes. null

Seth says

Seth says
yes i know the difference and clearly stated it as such.  

i am just pointing to the #consequences that such a #TrumpWorldView is #manifesting …
it is something that Americans must now #own …
especially those who did not vote against  #Trump.

Mark de LA says
Yep., when you blame it on Trump with your fucked word #consequences you are just part of the fuck itself.  There is no reason why countries shouldn’t reform themselves instead of depending upon others to do it for them. Russia & the middle East are prime examples.  Mexico should get rid of their own corruption instead of exporting it North.  The USA was built , albeit in a rather virginal world compared to today, by people who threw off the yolk of tyranny by a king. It is now one of the most stable democratic-republics in the world lasting 240 years & 9 months so far.  The UN needs reforming to the point where it is not just a corrupt debating society (mostly against the US & Israel) null

Seth says

Seth says
well okay.   it is my #judgement that this is a #consequence of #TrumpWorldView.  
i am not the only one who came to that conclusion. 
who gets the #credit or #blame is not my concern. 

Perhaps Americans will go to war in #syria, boots full on the ground to fight #ISIS, in league with Bashar Assad and the Russians.   That would be consistent with #Trump’s actions.   A conflicting thingey from my perspective.

Mark de LA says
Sorry dude, you have not heard anything except your own partisan turd rattling around inside your head.null 

Seth says
Here is #Trump’s statememt blaming #Obama …

Statement from President Donald J. Trump

 

Today’s chemical attack in Syria against innocent people, including women and children, is reprehensible and cannot be ignored by the civilized world. These heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the past administration’s weakness and irresolution. President Obama said in 2012 that he would establish a “red line” against the use of chemical weapons and then did nothing. The United States stands with our allies across the globe to condemn this intolerable attack.

the white house


So out of one side of #Trump’s neck he allows whatever,
and out of the other side he blames Obama
and just speaks words condemning Assad. 

McCain expressed my view adequately here. 

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
Some learned from the Iraq war & others didn’t . Personally I would do heavy intelligence to determine exactly where Assad is at a predictable window & drone his ass – not giving a shit who is with him.null
Your #AlreadyAlwaysArguing & #AntiTrumpism notwithstanding. 

Si says
I am sure he would love to do the same with you too!

Good Anti Golden Rule sympatico going on there between the two of you.  

Seth says

Seth says
Countries don’t usually #murder other countries’s leaders. 
It is an obvious intention, but a slippery slope i fear best not rolled down.

Seth says
yet who knows … this administration speaks with many voices …

The US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, said Syrian chemical attacks would continue if nothing was done.

"Time and time again Russia uses the same false narrative to deflect attention from their ally in Damascus," she said.

Hinting at possible unilateral action by the US, she added: "When the United Nations consistently fails in its duty to act collectively, there are times in the life of states that we are compelled to take our own action."

Nikki Haley at the UN

#DrumsOfWarSyria #NikiHaley

Mark de LA says
The Golden Rule is NOT a suicide pact!  If someone is out to murder you or your people the game has changed.

Si says
The #RealGoldenRule is not circumstantial. It is a principle by which to live and thrive. Exceptions are your own rwg additions my friend.

Mark de LA says
The golden rule is not a hammer.  Make up your own rules & call them golden or brown #IDC

Si says
The #RealGoldenRule is from Matthew

do unto others as you would have them do unto you

Matt. 7:12

If you would have Assad send a drone to shoot you at your computer in Paradise, that is not my business. The #RealGoldenRule does not say “except ...”.

Mark de LA says
The Golden doesn’t say always act as a contradiction-pit like you do either. Ethical reciprocity doesn’t say that I should commit suicide if that would make you happy or a better human being.  Wake UP!

Si says
I didn’t say the #RealGoldenRule said to commit suicide. There are always many ways to achieve a result. If one goes about achieving a result in a manner that same one would not want applied to them in return in similar circumstances, then I don’t see how the manner is a “living by the #RealGoldenRule way” to achieve the result. We can always choose another way. I think that is pretty clear by the nature of what the #RealGoldenRule is and how it has value in getting us to examine our methods and choose differently when they don’t meet the rule bar.  

Seth says
thou shalt not kill another” is a special case of “do unto others” ←  tis true.

war is hell … when leaders of a country make it personal, it is murder  ← imho.

one might ask, why has this,  aparently easy solution to nitty international problems, seldom been used historically ?
Why has there been an unwritten rule not to persue other country’s leaders and murder them ?

Why does this apply to #assad but not to #bagdadi ?  (or does it actually apply to both?) 
If #Trump knew the exact spot of Bagdadi would he (should he) target him with a drone? 
Would have Obama? …. like he did with BinLaden.
← food for though, eh?

Mark de LA says
Nah, it is on the TV in some form almost every night. THe greater good is often debated. The Golden Rule applies to your behavior & informs thru the heart chakra.  It is not a groupie thing. You folks keep trying to apply it to groups & other people.  Wake UP!

Si says
I am talking very personally. I would not ask to have Assad killed because that is not in my heart to do to me, so I would not ask it to be done to another.

Seth says
“its not a groupie thing”, mark says …

but if a leader speaks for the group, and leads the group, and the group follows,
then the group owns the deeds that are done  along with the leader.   ← imho

i don’t think group morality is quite so easily disregarded.

Mark de LA says
It is not a group thingy therefore there is no leader who speaks “The Golden Rule” for anyone except himself. The last one who could got crucified. 
Ideally the World Court could do a Neuremberg like trial on Assad and accomplish something but I suspect it would turn into a circus.  They did hang some people for their war crimes including Saddam Hussein for gassing his people. 

Seth says
well then there are no such thingys as nations … there are no nations … that level of soverign identity does not exist.  forget about patriotism … it does not exist … it was just an illusion.  

but you can’t have it both ways … either “there is a group thingy” …. or … “there are no nations”. 

Si says
Conversation forked to thought 23779

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