You said that to say what?


... which is an interesting question to throw out there when we are trying to be intentional ... to take responsibility for events .... or in other words trying to get something done, accomplished, changed, or found out.  The presumption when asking this question is that the "we" in question already has some requisite common agreement or notion or even just a feeling that wants of some peculiar thing to occur ... or some consequence to be applied ... or even some threatened thing to continue ... or in other words some common purpose is assumed to exist, or has been proposed, or is being proposed.  The questioner is asking whether the saying in question is furthering that purpose ... or perhaps what purpose the saying is furthering.

At times, perchance the question might better be asked, "You said that to do what?" ... or at other times, "You said that to feel what?".

You see we already know the person said that to think what, because saying is just public thinking and they are in fact thinking what publicly as they say it.


Tags

  1. consequences
  2. intent
  3. intentional
  4. intention
  5. responsibility
  6. saying
  7. doing
  8. purpose
  9. thinking
  10. item 17301
  11. feeling
  12. why question
  13. said that to say what
  14. tosaywhat

Comments


Seth says
choy 2014-10-06 09:08:44 17823
seth 2014-10-06 09:07:36 17823
choy 2014-10-06 08:34:07 17823
seth 2014-10-06 07:55:10 17823
choy 2014-10-06 06:59:00 17823
Some people say things just to hear/see their own voice/words of their own opinion.

yep ... that is a fact.  people say something to solidify or manifest their voice publicly.

... maybe that is where we get the alternate popular craze which goes ... "just saying"  ... no responsibility for any consequences accepted.   eh?
Or in the vernacular they just like to hear themselves talk.

... er, same thing ().   A person likes to hear themselves talk just because they like to solidify and/or manifest their voice publicly.  Me, i make no derogatory judgement on the behavior whatsoever ... and i do it frequently myself.  But i do distinguish that behavior of just expressing my personality from acting intentionally for some purpose.  Me, i think those two come from different motivations.  I seem to be aware of which is which.
Similar, in my book, to the motivation for taking a selfie.

quite so.

Seth says
choy 2014-10-06 10:32:50 17823
seth 2014-10-06 10:09:22 17823
source: mark
The original title question is an infinite loop which eventually will touch an rwg of some sort (already started). The question I asked is far deeper than the loop you started.

... fine, a deeper question indeed .

but there is no infinite loop in this topic ... it is about people asking that question.  It is about talking intentionally for a purpose ... of being aware of the consequences of your actions. 

Why questions are open-ended.  Any child knows how to ask them.  Why, daddy, should I eat my collard greens? Why are they green? why? why?


Well a why-question seeks a purpose, intention, or the prediction of some consequence.  If we allow such because-thingies in our ontology, then those inquiries are no more "open-ended" than a what-, when-, or who-question.  You yourself answered a why-question in this very thread:  (to hack at it for the sake of brevity) you asked about source because you thought it was deeper than why.

Seth says
choy 2014-10-06 08:32:31 17823
seth 2014-10-06 07:57:42 17823
choy 2014-10-06 07:22:36 17823
What being or Being is creating those words? Who am I(me) or Me(I) being as the words emerge? Where do they come from?


they come from some individual mind ... you asked that to ask what?
Maybe, maybe not or something else analogous like consciousness at different levels.

I chose to ask it to have you ponder these questions. IMHE (in my humble experience) one can not always guess why one or another says something & is often wrong if not asked.  Subject seems to get into the rwg area if probed with bias which everyone has.  Who wants to have their motives questioned? Deal with the content instead of the meta-meta-meta ...


... well i think you use the word "consciousness" to point to something quite different than I do.  So we almost cannot use that word together until we can figure out our differences there. 

But my model of where things come from is language strings go in our eyes and ears and rattle around in our minds and get remembered and rehashed and re-associated even with new things that we create inside ourselves and then come out our fingers or our mouths and produce whatever consequences and feedbacks out there.

Me, i just don't know why you associate that as pertinently about "You said that to say what?" ... which is why i asked. 

Seth says
and i think your idea that RWG trumps everything is just beauty in your own eyes.  everything is really not just about you and your pride,  and me and my pride.  you seem to presume that it is ... and, imho, that is fucking with your ability to engage. 

i totally wish you would  it .   and wish we had worked on other things instead of that habit.

Seth says
me 2014-10-08 08:25:33 17823
seth 2014-10-08 08:19:10 17823
me 2014-10-08 08:12:53 17823
seth 2014-10-08 07:40:23 17823
me 2014-10-08 07:15:52 17823
The definition of an infinite silly loop:  You  said that to say what? (.. & You said that (<--) to say what .... & etc.


so don't do that .  nor is that anything that i have done here.
True, but the RWG will eventually trump that.

speak for yourself.
I am certainly not alone in this regard. If the question is not asked out loud the answer is made up inside.  But maybe you can deny that too!


well i deny that my agenda is usually just to make something that you said wrong.

I do try to consider the effects of my actions on others ... and that includes what i say to them.  The effect of what i say on myself is just for me personally and i know nobody can know or share in those feeling.  There is no infinite loop in that and there is no RWG in that.  i don't think this is quite so very complicated and it seems to me you are making it. 

Seth says
source: mark

[snip blatant rwg]

You can not know ALL the effects of your actions on others unless you are a mind & soul reader with exact fidelity to what is so.
true

you said that to say what?

You only know what you make up with your feelings.

incidentaly i usually try not to allow my feelings to make up my knowledge.   especially where it comes to this kind of shit.   but of course i am human and reverberate inside like the rest of you bastards.

...  So far I know nobody personally who is any good at not getting sucked into the RWG.  You & I included.

maybe that's because the people who are "good at not getting sucked into the RWG" are just the very same people who totally ignore you when you start that shit.   

source: mark
...
i understand the "" ... i don't understand the "" ... perhaps a private joke, eh?


Mark de LA says
Maybe ask your favorite question of the federal government & potus:
Who do they think we are?



Seth says
Eiamme 2014-11-10 14:50:08 17823
seth 2014-11-10 14:03:07 17823
source: mark
What am I not now thinking about is an infinite loop. You are going loopy. I know what I am talking about. Everything else is an amusement on your part as you read and make up a story about what I have said.  Good luck. Maybe write a fiction novel inspired by it, eh?

... well knowing intentions has nothing to do with some infinite loop of guessing them.  Making the honest intentions of a message clear will improve communication.  Asking about those is just part of the process of making them explicit.
When you deframe it just proves my point. Some listenings won't grok what I write. There are no hidden motives.


Yep people frequently cannot hear what is being said to them.  Asking questions is the best way i know to arrive at a meeting of minds.  A large part of any message is the intention behind saying it ... asking about that can get at the deeper meaning of an interaction.   That is the frame of this item ... I know because it was my intention to record just that in my blog mind here ... your re-framing it to be about yourself notwithstanding.

Seth says
Eiamme 2014-11-10 12:39:37 17823
seth 2014-11-10 10:31:19 17823
Eiamme 2014-11-10 10:12:35 17823
seth 2014-11-10 09:12:27 17823
Eiamme 2014-11-10 09:00:01 17823
Interesting connection showed up which this picture/meme applies:


of course this item is not about questioning motives and arguing and quibbling.

Rather it is the realization that ..

Everything that you do has consequences ... another way to say that is you cannot escape your karma. 

It's about being aware of the consequences you intend ... or intending your consequences ... same thing.  It is similar to "say what you mean and mean what you say" ... though me thinks it goes even further.

Cute twist though


Maybe you should look in the body of the item at your:
Seth: ... At times, perchance the question might better be asked, "You said that to do what?"
...


i do not understand what you are saying here ... nor what you intended.   my comment above was made with full knowledge of what you quoted.   In other words, every action, even just saying something, can have a component of intending the consequences.   Or alternatively one can be oblivious to the consequences outside of one's already always listening box.  Now there is this protocol we do to call that to somebody's attention ... we ask, "You said that to say what?".   We ask that not to quibble or question the speaker's motives, but rather to inquire into what they were
... so that you can quibble about their motives too!  What I write I intend. You may not like it or it may not fit into your listening or you may want to shift context so that it fits your listening, but basically I have no undisclosed motives which are not in what I write. We are not perfect strangers so there is no reason for me to explain myself constantly.


Mark, it is not that you intend ... it was what you intend which is not known ... hence the question.

I know this touches close to your RWG ... yet what i am saying it is not related to RWG.  Simply stated we are intentional beings who do things because of the consequences they bring.  The message of a communication might be one thing, the intention or consequences that follow from the transmission might be quite something different.  To understand the communication, me thinks both need to be known.  Presumably both are known to the author.  The question is necessary because the intention is not necessarily known to the listener. 

Eiamyme says
seth 2014-11-10 17:22:14 17823
source: mark
While your "cup runneth over" & while I will never pretend to teach you anything, this commentary I also posted on Breck's fb this AM serves well the context here; particularly when their own inner voice is louder than anything else coming in:
http://cfrussell.homestead.com/files/hex/30thwan.htm


... or in other words you are trying to teach me something.  While i am noting that communication 
has two components and understanding both is to fully understand the communication.  Seems to me that we have the classical cross purpose situation depicted here ... see transactional analysis
I underlined the parts that your full cup & your loud inner voice missed the first time while I ignore your games people play thingy!


See Also

  1. Thought Cycle of doing with 778 viewings related by tag "doing".
  2. Thought #ThreeLawsOfReality with 549 viewings related by tag "responsibility".
  3. Thought Moving from 2 to 3 dimensions with 523 viewings related by tag "Doing".
  4. Thought Here is with 432 viewings related by tag "feeling".
  5. Thought Thought, Feeling, and Will with 380 viewings related by tag "feeling".
  6. Thought (clone) Should presidents tweet? with 333 viewings related by tag "saying".
  7. Thought Socrates Cafe Question: Should presidents tweet? with 312 viewings related by tag "saying".
  8. Thought The art of doing with 289 viewings related by tag "doing".
  9. Thought Accepting responsibility for every thing in your life causes joy and power. with 174 viewings related by tag "responsibility".
  10. Thought The ego bubble plane with 152 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  11. Thought Contemplation: what is my ego? with 140 viewings related by tag "feeling".
  12. Thought about: Megaphone vs Free Speech vs Political Correctness - comment 72579 - comment 72589 with 134 viewings related by tag "doing".
  13. Thought Triangulating ... with 111 viewings related by tag "doing".
  14. Thought Why my trains of thought break ... with 108 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  15. Thought Fallacies and Pallacies with 105 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  16. Thought about: rational and intuitive thinking – marc clifton with 95 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  17. Thought #iSwim with 86 viewings related by tag "doing".
  18. Thought SeriTD dreams, and dreams of boz. with 84 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  19. Thought about: thought 23251 - comment 74736 with 62 viewings related by tag "doing".
  20. Thought Thinking in the Public River with 58 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  21. Thought Deeds collapse Possibilities into Manifestations with 55 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  22. Thought The Dare ! - was: Past Present and Future with 41 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  23. Thought Copy of - a thought in fastblogit.com with 37 viewings related by tag "intention".
  24. Thought Listening with 32 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  25. Thought Doing ... with 30 viewings related by tag "doing".
  26. Thought Have you ever wondered .. with 29 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  27. Thought about: [Congress] slips into a ‘predictable spiral’ - The Washington Post with 29 viewings related by tag "intention".
  28. Thought What does thinking live mean? ... and where might it be going? with 21 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  29. Thought Tetrahedron with 19 viewings related by tag "feeling".
  30. Thought #doing #do #ArtOfDoing #CycleOfDoing with 19 viewings related by tag "doing".
  31. Thought A big deep mind with 16 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  32. Thought about: The art of doing - comment 74749 with 10 viewings related by tag "doing".
  33. Thought A drawing of NOWs in my life with 6 viewings related by tag "doing".
  34. Thought about: GW Document: Spring - #57 with 4 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  35. Thought Schrodinger's Cat with 2 viewings related by tag "doing".
  36. Thought Consequences with 2 viewings related by tag "consequences".
  37. Thought The Declaration Of My Personal Independence with 1 viewings related by tag "intention".
  38. Thought My direct experience with 1 viewings related by tag "doing".
  39. Thought about: if i were asked what is fbi? with 1 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  40. Thought Dictatorship of Impersonal Economy by Pope Francis with 1 viewings related by tag "purpose".
  41. Thought The Earth & Gaia while Pissing with 1 viewings related by tag "purpose".
  42. Thought Where is the strongest anchor ... with 1 viewings related by tag "item 17301".
  43. Thought What consequences ... with 1 viewings related by tag "consequences".
  44. Thought The Silent Thought Project with 1 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  45. Thought Train of Will in the Stream of Consciousness with 1 viewings related by tag "intention".
  46. Thought Not in my network with 0 viewings related by tag "item 17301".
  47. Thought Two Different Times of an Event, was: Thinking about habits with 0 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  48. Thought ENCYCLICAL LETTER OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME with 0 viewings related by tag "responsibility".
  49. Thought Song of the year with 0 viewings related by tag "thinking".
  50. Thought #FailedStupidMemeAttempts with 0 viewings related by tag "responsibility".