What do we associate to what?


These are the associations that i find apply from the table in 15300

Q J X
























equality liberty fraternity


l
Media


culture rights economy
medicine law  
education political  

i don't see how the other associations would apply just to those three singly and not across the board to all.

Tags

  1. threefoldness
  2. fabric

Comments


Einaiam says
I did answer some of that near my last post this date on the original item.  I also have this book on Common Wealth which has a whole lot of discussion on some of the sociological minutiae of the subject.  If one does a google martin large one can run into more including a youtube of the author who sounds like a sociologist.
It is a good start & he does reference RS.
Imho,  he is more into the Waldorf path.
He does have this image which is inspiring about the "struggle" in the front of the book:





Seth says
well before we publish those associations i think they should be clear.  For example, thought feeling and will can be associated into all three of the domains and are not particular to just one.  I found the same pattern on all of the other associations that i deleted in my table. 

sorry, i can not figure out specifically what you are refering to by your your "last post this date on the original item" ... did you justify there that one of the associtions that i eliminated should have in fact been associated with one doman and not the other two?

Einaiam says
This one: The approach is more synthesis into the independent groups instead of analysis into the groups.
~
I am still pondering the three domains as they relate to the hand or any 3-pronged triad. I woke up this AM with the idea that rather than an analysis approach, i.e. taking apart what already exists that another approach would be a synthesis approach.  Thus if the hand represents the Liberty, Equality, Fraternity triad then we can think of all those things for which freedom-liberty must be a fundamental principle i.e.
  • speech, writing, association ... (essentially the first amendment to the US Constitution)
  • the soul is free to experience whatever it desires bearing in mind the consequences.
  • art
  • healing
  • learning & education
  • etc.

As far as brotherhood goes - the domain of economics mainly

  • nobility of vocation
  • commonwealth
  • dynamic equilibrium of goods & services within ..
  • an ecology that is aware of gaia & yet not dominated by "global" politics
  • etc.

As far as equality goes - essentially the rights domain (& politics -law)

  • we are all equal before the law
  • money & economics must not be a concern
  • get the law out of business
  • get the money out of business
  • get the money out of government
  • get the money out of elections
  • we are all equal in terms of our vote
  • etc

Other triads could be invented to power threefoldness such as culture, rights & economy but they seem more abstract to me.



Einaiam says
FYI Motto of the French Revolution Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

Seth says
Einaiam 2014-10-11 09:00:58 17838
FYI Motto of the French Revolution Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

yeah i got that one "".

incidentally i keep trying to isolate something like Liberty to just "culture, medicine, education", and finding that i can not.  Culture should be free too.  ... and shouldn't everyone have an equal oppurtunity in the business sphere?   Forming this Gestalt so that the story is vivid and compelling is not necessarily an easy task for me. 

i'm having it easier seeing the things that, starting from the current societal situation, should be separated .... see this section in Wikipedia article.  Those separations are compelling for me.

Einaiam says
seth 2014-10-11 09:25:59 17838
Einaiam 2014-10-11 09:00:58 17838
FYI Motto of the French Revolution Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

yeah i got that one "".

incidentally i keep trying to isolate something like Liberty to just "culture, medicine, education", and finding that i can not.  Culture should be free too.  ... and shouldn't everyone have an equal oppurtunity in the business sphere?   Forming this Gestalt so that the story is vivid and compelling is not necessarily an easy task for me. 

i'm having it easier seeing the things that, starting from the current societal situation, should be separated .... see this section in Wikipedia article.  Those separations are compelling for me.
Yep, that's what I'm saying. Take those things which you think should fall within liberty & form a crisp, clear principle out of them & put them in that category.  Culture to me is amorphous. I think the most isolation from the others is economics.  It is like the life-blood of the human body to the social organization(body) ... One would not want the blood to escape & get into the nervous system it would end up ebola.   Enjoy Wikipedia - for what it's worth.  If economics is not independent I want little to do with the system.


Einaiam says
culture as art, culture as food, culture as dance & music, culture as language, culture as whatever is easy to put in the freedom category.  Culture as skin-color & politics NOT so easy.


Seth says
Einaiam 2014-10-11 09:34:10 17838
culture as art, culture as food, culture as dance & music, culture as language, culture as whatever is easy to put in the freedom category.  Culture as skin-color & politics NOT so easy.


i may have figured out why your mind is saying this so differently than mine.  

Me, i don't call the J domain "Freedom" and then ask what should be free.   Rather i call the J domain the fabric of rights, law, and politics.  Similarly with the other two. 

So that we obviously agree that the economy should be independent of the government (rights, law, politics) ... no doubt about it, right ??  But whether there should be no brotherhood applied when we govern ... well that seems to be something we need think about, eh?

Seth says
source: mark
If economics is not independent I want little to do with the system.
... ... me neither


Seth says
source: mark
skin-color [is not part of culture]
... well i disagree.   Skin color is part of the fabric of our cultures, like it or lump it.  So is red hair, blue eyes, and the man in the moon

sorry i had to paraphrase what i thought you were saying which i disagreed with.   If i got it wrong, just clarify your thought, please.

Einaiam says
seth 2014-10-11 10:01:18 17838
source: mark
skin-color [is not part of culture]
... well i disagree.   Skin color is part of the fabric of our cultures, like it or lump it.  So is red hair, blue eyes, and the man in the moon

sorry i had to paraphrase what i thought you were saying which i disagreed with.   If i got it wrong, just clarify your thought, please.
Well we are exactly opposite on this one. Enjoy the racism.

Einaiam says
Well, it looks like you are going into the Wikipedia direction & I am going more in the Rudolf Steiner direction. Enjoy.


Seth says
Einaiam 2014-10-11 10:14:38 17838
seth 2014-10-11 10:01:18 17838
source: mark
skin-color [is not part of culture]
... well i disagree.   Skin color is part of the fabric of our cultures, like it or lump it.  So is red hair, blue eyes, and the man in the moon

sorry i had to paraphrase what i thought you were saying which i disagreed with.   If i got it wrong, just clarify your thought, please.
Well we are exactly opposite on this one. Enjoy the racism.

well it would have been more useful to me, had you actually clarified your stance rather than just getting mad, "".   I don't  think that anger has any place in this kind of dialogue.

And no my stance is not racism ... and you know that is just your opinion.   To get a better sense of what i am actually saying just take "skin color" out of my sentence above and focus insted on hair, eye color, and especially the part about the man and the moon. 

Seth says
Einaiam 2014-10-11 10:16:10 17838
Well, it looks like you are going into the Wikipedia direction & I am going more in the Rudolf Steiner direction. Enjoy.


 i am not familiar with those distinctions.  If you conceive that the actually do make a difference, could you educate me as to how?

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-10-11 10:27:12 17838
Einaiam 2014-10-11 10:16:10 17838
Well, it looks like you are going into the Wikipedia direction & I am going more in the Rudolf Steiner direction. Enjoy.


 i am not familiar with those distinctions.  If you conceive that the actually do make a difference, could you educate me as to how?
Read the comments on that tab thingy or follow one.  It seems as if they have a complaint abour the RSF (rudolf steiner foundation & also connections to the Waldorf schools as "advertizements". Anyway - sanitizing RS out of it would be silly from my perspective.


Mark de LA says
M 2014-10-11 10:33:06 17838
seth 2014-10-11 10:27:12 17838
Einaiam 2014-10-11 10:16:10 17838
Well, it looks like you are going into the Wikipedia direction & I am going more in the Rudolf Steiner direction. Enjoy.


 i am not familiar with those distinctions.  If you conceive that the actually do make a difference, could you educate me as to how?
Read the comments on that tab thingy or follow one.  It seems as if they have a complaint abour the RSF (rudolf steiner foundation & also connections to the Waldorf schools as "advertizements". Anyway - sanitizing RS out of it would be silly from my perspective.

Doesn't matter you are still talking racial characteristics which for me is racism. We've argued it.  I will not institute racism in any future I belong to.


Seth says
M 2014-10-11 10:34:44 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:33:06 17838
seth 2014-10-11 10:27:12 17838
Einaiam 2014-10-11 10:16:10 17838
Well, it looks like you are going into the Wikipedia direction & I am going more in the Rudolf Steiner direction. Enjoy.


 i am not familiar with those distinctions.  If you conceive that the actually do make a difference, could you educate me as to how?
Read the comments on that tab thingy or follow one.  It seems as if they have a complaint abour the RSF (rudolf steiner foundation & also connections to the Waldorf schools as "advertizements". Anyway - sanitizing RS out of it would be silly from my perspective.

Doesn't matter you are still talking racial characteristics which for me is racism. We've argued it.  I will not institute racism in any future I belong to.


Well of course it's not entirely up to you whether chacheristics which actually exist in the world are included in our human fabric about it.  ... this one almost needs a giggle .

Mark de LA says
M 2014-10-11 10:43:53 17838
You are probably thinking about the rights domain.  You don't have the freedom to choose your race.

The rights domain is about equality before the law.


Mark de LA says
seth 2014-10-11 11:29:35 17838
is this bold? ... if so we are popogating an unbalnaced bold markup
I don't know how it would happen.

Seth says
M 2014-10-11 10:45:30 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:43:53 17838
You are probably thinking about the rights domain.  You don't have the freedom to choose your race.

The rights domain is about equality before the law.


hard for me to figure out what you are saying here.  i might be able to if i thought more about it.  Your presumption that i am thinking about something that i am not really thinking about does get in the way of me parsing your sentence.   Sure we do not have the freedom to choose our race ... er, you said that to say what?  

Rights and skin color are already in separate domains ... there is no doubt about it (at least in my mind).  But skin color is a characteristic about something just like the man in the mooon is a characteristic about that heavenly body ... sure sounds to me like it belongs in our human fabric about our world.

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-10-11 11:39:04 17838
choy 2014-10-11 11:34:22 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:53:36 17838
The nazis made lampshades out of human fabric.
human fabric.

trying to destroy the meaning of the terms that i use is not going to help us communicate.  please cease and desist!  i do not think this is not a item to be using destructive humor within ... and no it was not funny to me in this context. 
I can quit reading this shit which makes nonsense with the words "human fabric" in them if that is what you want. You are just getting into abstractions in the style that 17835 warned about.


Seth says
choy 2014-10-11 11:37:23 17838
seth 2014-10-11 11:29:35 17838
is this bold? ... if so we are popogating an unbalnaced bold markup
I don't know how it would happen.

well i kind of watched it happen ... tried to fix it ... got too complicated ... who knows, maybe it fixed itself now .

Seth says
oh i think i may have figured out why you don't get this skin color thingey ... maybe same reason to you "Culture to  is amorphous".   To me, while it has no structure or shape per se,  i always know it when i see it.   Which is not to say that culture and the other domains do not blend together in some happenings.   Culture is the style and expression of creating distinct appearances.  I think i pretty much know that when i see it ... nothing amorphous about my recognition thereof.

Incidentally we should add media to Q column.   I'll just go ahead and do that.

Mark de LA says
M 2014-10-11 10:53:36 17838
The nazis made lampshades out of human fabric.
human fabric.

Seth says
choy 2014-10-11 11:34:22 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:53:36 17838
The nazis made lampshades out of human fabric.
human fabric.

trying to destroy the meaning of the terms that i use is not going to help us communicate.  please cease and desist!  i do not think this is not a item to be using destructive humor within ... and no it was not funny to me in this context. 

Mark de LA says
choy 2014-10-11 11:17:12 17838
seth 2014-10-11 11:10:23 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:45:30 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:43:53 17838
You are probably thinking about the rights domain.  You don't have the freedom to choose your race.

The rights domain is about equality before the law.


hard for me to figure out what you are saying here.  i might be able to if i thought more about it.  Your presumption that i am thinking about something that i am not really thinking about does get in the way of me parsing your sentence.   Sure we do not have the freedom to choose our race ... er, you said that to say what?  

Rights and skin color are already in separate domains ... there is no doubt about it (at least in my mind).  But skin color is a characteristic about something just like the man in the mooon is a characteristic about that heavenly body ... sure sounds to me like it belongs in our human fabric about our world.
Your presumption about my presumption is just YOU!
That say, freedom is about choice.  I cannot change my race or your race or anyone else's .  It is pre-determined at birth. Human fabric is just bozometry.  I was choosing what the liberty-freedom domain might include in my own post & you want race in it? That's the funny.

I doubt that rights & skin color are already in separate domains means anything.

Seth says
source: mark
I doubt that rights & skin color are already in separate domains means anything.
... sure it does, let me clarify. 

Skin color should not determine a person's rights.  Or said differently, the fact that a person has a specific skin color is not in their rights domain.  

Now skin color is a characteristic that appears and about which we express ourselves ... hence it is within the fabric of our culture.   It is in the domain that includes culture. 

The fact that is not always the way it is in our current world, just means that we need more work on this racism bug.  Threefoldness brings out that nicely.



Seth says
choy 2014-10-11 11:42:47 17838
seth 2014-10-11 11:39:04 17838
choy 2014-10-11 11:34:22 17838
M 2014-10-11 10:53:36 17838
The nazis made lampshades out of human fabric.
human fabric.

trying to destroy the meaning of the terms that i use is not going to help us communicate.  please cease and desist!  i do not think this is not a item to be using destructive humor within ... and no it was not funny to me in this context. 
I can quit reading this shit which makes nonsense with the words "human fabric" in them if that is what you want. You are just getting into abstractions in the style that 17835 warned about.


"human fabric" is an excellent way to refer to the actual fabric of our human interactions (our networking together) ... please see where i introduced the term.  it not an abstraction anymore than any term you might come up with to refer to the texture of the expanse of ocean you perceive when you sail the Pacific.

Seth says
if i think about it, i'm more and more seeing the different domains as different fabrics ... like for example the fabric of our blood vessels, the fabric of our nerves, the fabric of our digesting  structures, the fabric of our bones.   so the three folds are the three different fabrics of our humanity.   as you observed elsewhere, these fabrics are not entirely separated, but mesh together and interact making up our whole being. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2014-10-11 12:13:24 17838
if i think about it, i'm more and more seeing the different domains as different fabrics ... like for example the fabric of our blood vessels, the fabric of our nerves, the fabric of our digesting  structures, the fabric of our bones.   so the three folds are the three different fabrics of our humanity.   as you observed elsewhere, these fabrics are not entirely separated, but mesh together and interact making up our whole being. 
Oh... Oh ... Oh! (Oh-gasm)
Enjoy the abstract munge of it all. We already have it NOW! No need to change anything.


Seth says
choy 2014-10-11 12:18:49 17838
seth 2014-10-11 12:13:24 17838
if i think about it, i'm more and more seeing the different domains as different fabrics ... like for example the fabric of our blood vessels, the fabric of our nerves, the fabric of our digesting  structures, the fabric of our bones.   so the three folds are the three different fabrics of our humanity.   as you observed elsewhere, these fabrics are not entirely separated, but mesh together and interact making up our whole being. 
Oh... Oh ... Oh! (Oh-gasm)
Enjoy the abstract munge of it all. We already have it NOW! No need to change anything.


Wrong ! .... as said above, "Skin color should not determine a person's rights.  Or said differently, the fact that a person has a specific skin color is not in their rights domain.  

Now skin color is a characteristic that appears and about which we express ourselves ... hence it is within the fabric of our culture.   It is in the domain that includes culture. 

The fact that is not always the way it is in our current world, just means that we need more work on this racism bug.  Threefoldness brings that out nicely." 

bold part refutes your mock.

Eainain says
seth 2014-10-11 13:45:51 17838
choy 2014-10-11 12:18:49 17838
seth 2014-10-11 12:13:24 17838
if i think about it, i'm more and more seeing the different domains as different fabrics ... like for example the fabric of our blood vessels, the fabric of our nerves, the fabric of our digesting  structures, the fabric of our bones.   so the three folds are the three different fabrics of our humanity.   as you observed elsewhere, these fabrics are not entirely separated, but mesh together and interact making up our whole being. 
Oh... Oh ... Oh! (Oh-gasm)
Enjoy the abstract munge of it all. We already have it NOW! No need to change anything.


Wrong ! .... as said above, "Skin color should not determine a person's rights.  Or said differently, the fact that a person has a specific skin color is not in their rights domain.  

Now skin color is a characteristic that appears and about which we express ourselves ... hence it is within the fabric of our culture.   It is in the domain that includes culture. 

The fact that is not always the way it is in our current world, just means that we need more work on this racism bug.  Threefoldness brings that out nicely." 

bold part refutes your mock.
I am mocking your munging shit like culture & fabric together.  The rights domain says that all humans share the same rights before the law & government.  Mock stands!


Seth says
Eainain 2014-10-11 13:50:03 17838
seth 2014-10-11 13:45:51 17838
choy 2014-10-11 12:18:49 17838
seth 2014-10-11 12:13:24 17838
if i think about it, i'm more and more seeing the different domains as different fabrics ... like for example the fabric of our blood vessels, the fabric of our nerves, the fabric of our digesting  structures, the fabric of our bones.   so the three folds are the three different fabrics of our humanity.   as you observed elsewhere, these fabrics are not entirely separated, but mesh together and interact making up our whole being. 
Oh... Oh ... Oh! (Oh-gasm)
Enjoy the abstract munge of it all. We already have it NOW! No need to change anything.


Wrong ! .... as said above, "Skin color should not determine a person's rights.  Or said differently, the fact that a person has a specific skin color is not in their rights domain.  

Now skin color is a characteristic that appears and about which we express ourselves ... hence it is within the fabric of our culture.   It is in the domain that includes culture. 

The fact that is not always the way it is in our current world, just means that we need more work on this racism bug.  Threefoldness brings that out nicely." 

bold part refutes your mock.
I am mocking your munging shit like culture & fabric together.  The rights domain says that all humans share the same rights before the law & government.  Mock stands!


yep the rights domain says all humans have the same rights, exactly as i have said with other words above. 

but what you have said here is just something easy for you to say,  because it doesn't deal with the actual subject matter itself.  it just asserts that i am wrong by affixing your favority insult words, while not having to hear my use of the word "fabirc".

mocking has no place in this dialogue.  listening does.

Seth says
Einai 2014-10-12 09:45:32 17838

yep, have fun talking to yourself here.

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