the real you - alan watts - youtube

"What you do is what the whole universe is doing at the place you call 'here and now."

-- Alan Watts

 

... "the real you is not a puppet which life pushes around.  the real deep down you is the whole universe ... so then when you die your not going to have to put up with everlasting non existence ... [...] ... after people die other people are born ... and they are all you ... only you can only experience it one at a time" -- Alan Watts

so ...i think Alan answered Mark's provocation  ... er, post humorously

Tags

  1. alan watts
  2. item 18028
  3. appreciation of otherness
  4. NiceStuff
  5. MrNice

Comments


Seth says
Eiamyme 2015-01-02 10:06:57 18028
seth 2015-01-02 09:41:44 18028
Karma is a bitch ... oh well ...

ask yourself:  why do you react so negatively against certain peculiar things?

not so - not first lie of the day either is it?


oh ... so i imagined your obnoxious tags and comments on this item and your deletion of our dialogue about it on facebook ... or somehow you don't recognize that as negative ... or maybe you are continuing to lie right now.

maybe a new noun needs mediation here ... "perspicuity"

indidentally, just stop rubbing this and it will certainly fade to background

Seth says
#NiceStuff 2014-12-24 00:15:10 18028
seth 2014-12-23 20:36:05 18028
#NiceStuff 2014-12-23 07:48:46 18028
According to Watts there is nothing not you so the "real" you is just you with a cherry on top.
(;-)) ... HA!

Well yes, apparently it is a peculiar situation indeed.  You and me ... or er the universe ... seems segmented by person and time ... your part, the cherry as you put it, is the part of it that you feel ... the other part is otherness which you directly cannot feel ... that is the predicament.  Me, in my cherry part, i quite like the predicament.  You, your cherry part, i cannot feel, yet i know of it vicariously via your words and expressions ... and via that expression i can imagine and as i trust almost feel.  The not me ... not cherry ... part of the universe is what i call otherness. 
Then too argument from analogy misses a lot of reality which was my point.


Well language is always removed from the reality of experience.  You are supposed to read the words and then you yourself actually do the experience accordingly.  For example: "go into the bathroom of the hotel you are in and try to make coffee in the little plastic pot they provide guests to make coffee. "  If you stop at just reading those words, you will in fact miss the taste of coffee. 

For me, you seemed to disclose an interesting logical objection to Watts message.  I tried to write down words about of how I almost transcend your logical objection and still experience the wholeness of the universe even including my special cherry on top. 

Incidentally the taste of the coffee was not all that great in this Holiday Inn... how about the experience from my words?

Seth says
#NiceStuff 2014-12-24 07:11:11 18028
My first & last experience of the Watts words was "nice bullshit". Such is similar to most of the wonderful epigrams that float in the news stream of facebook.  Occasionally there comes out some qualia like "cute & clever" but mostly a qualia of "samo-samo" . There is an odorous GIGO stuck in the words coming out of most sources these days.  I can tell the difference most of the time.
     Can you?


Hmmm .... seems like those words describe your experience of a judgement of the words i qouted from Watts's talk ... not an experience of oneness based upon what he acutually said on the video. 

I got my rush by watching the video and then by mediating on your cherry on top. 

Incidentally i tire of all the epigrams on Facebook too ... it seems the people we have subscribed to there have these "wisdoms" floating around in their minds.  Me i like to notice how some vibrate in mine. 

#NiceStuff says
seth 2014-12-25 06:34:15 18028
#NiceStuff 2014-12-24 07:11:11 18028
My first & last experience of the Watts words was "nice bullshit". Such is similar to most of the wonderful epigrams that float in the news stream of facebook.  Occasionally there comes out some qualia like "cute & clever" but mostly a qualia of "samo-samo" . There is an odorous GIGO stuck in the words coming out of most sources these days.  I can tell the difference most of the time.
     Can you?


Hmmm .... seems like those words describe your experience of a judgement of the words i qouted from Watts's talk ... not an experience of oneness based upon what he acutually said on the video. 

I got my rush by watching the video and then by mediating on your cherry on top. 

Incidentally i tire of all the epigrams on Facebook too ... it seems the people we have subscribed to there have these "wisdoms" floating around in their minds.  Me i like to notice how some vibrate in mine. 
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU & YOURS!

I watched this video long before you posted it here as well as most of Watt's YouTube residue. I read some of his books in the late '80s as well.  I suspect judging is something you will continue to do.  I hold it similar to P.2693 of the Tai Shu commentary:
source: ...
P.2693 84-5-4-28-14-3-MON (26/1/16 ago or 26.13 yrs from this writing)
".... The question of illative force is controversial in some minds.  In our book every Ultimate Particle has Consciousness, a Category concomitant with others such as Unity, Extension, Persistence, Motion i.e. each UP has an Ego, whose function is JUDGEMENT, which is expresses as a "statement" or "equation" properly quantified & qualified.  Note that not the statement but its MEANING is what FORCES you to assent, i.e., if you are a reasonable person.  Speech & Reasoning are equivalent: See what I mean when I say "Look Jane see Dick" - two levels. "
..... good judgement is something I will not abandon just for an epigram qualia of unity. There are many I suspect in the spirituality purveyor crowd who only find unity when others are looking at them.



#NiceStuff says
What is fascinating to me is that Greek Mythology & Anthroposophical views of human evolution do not bother me because they do not pretend to be using logic & the strength of a fortiori argumentation to bull their way to a viewpoint.
The Temple Legend: ... That, too, is referred to in Greek mythology. The one whose state of consciousness is not free — the contemplator — the one who does not wish to win redemption in complete freedom and therefore is the opponent of Prometheus — is Epimetheus. Zeus gives him Pandora's box, the contents of which — sufferings and plagues — fall on mankind when it is opened. The only gift which is left behind is hope; the hope that one day, in a future state he will also progress to this higher, clear consciousness. He is left with the hope that he will be set free. Prometheus advises him against accepting this doubtful gift from the god Zeus. Epimetheus does not listen to his brother, but accepts the gift. The gift which Epimetheus receives is not worth as much as the one belonging to his brother Prometheus.
... from an RS lecture.  RS is here using artistic mode of communicating using imagination, inspiration & intuition modes of consciousness. The authority rests in that you can attain to the same kind of consciousness which, however does not show up in the dull life of those who merely hope for spiritual freedom effortlessly.


Seth says
Well Firefox is not suprted on my iphonr :(

Seth says
It does not matter ... I can still imagine I watch other cherries go there tops .... better when my own cherry gets out the way .... Merry Christmas to yours :)

#NiceStuff says
seth 2014-12-25 10:42:37 18028
It does not matter ... I can still imagine I watch other cherries go there tops .... better when my own cherry gets out the way .... Merry Christmas to yours :)
Enjoy your cherry or not - nothing matters from the Universe point of view I suspect - particularly cherries.


Seth says
Your prolly right re the universe not caring .... not withstanding that it gave us our cherries ... I will say thank you, universe, anyway just for them ... kind of kewl gift just for me ... Oh whoops it gave you one too LOL

Seth says
#MrNice 2014-12-26 07:35:33 18028
It takes a real bull to shit such real bullshit.
oh really ... what aspect of anything here is "real bull shit" ... and why?

Seth says
and just because effect cannot be totally erased ...



Mark de LA says
dA 2016-02-05 09:01:05 [item 18028#44689]
It’s interesting that if Seth likes this model, which he seems to by his comments, he has so much trouble with the “you create your entire verse” model. There are the exact same model! There is no difference whatsoever. It’s like looking at a quarter and saying “I like heads. Heads feels right to me. Tails, now that doesn’t feel right at all”. Weird huh?
seth 2016-02-05 09:06:06 [item 18028#44693]
they are not the same model.   the difference is an awareness of other.  and specifically how you seem to be oblivious there.

 
dA 2016-02-05 09:12:11 [item 18028#44696]
They are all me and this is all mine is the same thing. I acknolowledge that in either way of looking at it an individual can ignore, hide, forget, choose not to know, that they are all and all is one and pretend to be an isolated entity. But once you remember, it matters not if you see all that can be experienced as being of you, or you as creating all of that. It’s all the same.
Mark 2016-02-05 09:23:12 [item 18028#44697]
seth 2016-02-05 09:35:00 [item 18028#44705]
actually quite a simple awareness.   in a metaphor:  two people are lifting a very heavy stone … both are acting from the same force … now suppose for one person the other vanishes because he thinks it is all just himself   …  what happens to the stone? … well if falls to the ground.   that you are the whole universe acting from where you are here and now,  does not imply that you are the whole universe. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:38:59 [item 18028#44707]
Depends. Did you write the other guy out of your story or not? Only you can do that, he can’t write your story, only contribute to what is possible for you to write. But that really has no bearing on if you see all as one, or one as all which was the subject here. This anecdote only has a bearing on if it is a multiverse or a universe.
Mark 2016-02-05 09:41:45 [item 18028#44710]
I like the NOverse . The song is sung! ….. doo dah …. doo dah … just saying & sung!smug
dA 2016-02-05 09:43:17 [item 18028#44712]
Reached your limit eh Mark? All you have left is slander? Can’t keep up with the conversation anymore?
Just put the dishes back on the shelf from the dishwasher – didn’t miss a thingy . Still judging – LOA lesson, eh? 

Seth says
dA 2016-02-05 09:01:05 [item 18028#44689]
It’s interesting that if Seth likes this model, which he seems to by his comments, he has so much trouble with the “you create your entire verse” model. There are the exact same model! There is no difference whatsoever. It’s like looking at a quarter and saying “I like heads. Heads feels right to me. Tails, now that doesn’t feel right at all”. Weird huh?
seth 2016-02-05 09:06:06 [item 18028#44693]
they are not the same model.   the difference is an awareness of other.  and specifically how you seem to be oblivious there.

 
dA 2016-02-05 09:12:11 [item 18028#44696]
They are all me and this is all mine is the same thing. I acknolowledge that in either way of looking at it an individual can ignore, hide, forget, choose not to know, that they are all and all is one and pretend to be an isolated entity. But once you remember, it matters not if you see all that can be experienced as being of you, or you as creating all of that. It’s all the same.
Mark 2016-02-05 09:23:12 [item 18028#44697]
seth 2016-02-05 09:35:00 [item 18028#44705]
actually quite a simple awareness.   in a metaphor:  two people are lifting a very heavy stone … both are acting from the same force … now suppose for one person the other vanishes because he thinks it is all just himself   …  what happens to the stone? … well if falls to the ground.   that you are the whole universe acting from where you are here and now,  does not imply that you are the whole universe. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:38:59 [item 18028#44707]
Depends. Did you write the other guy out of your story or not? Only you can do that, he can’t write your story, only contribute to what is possible for you to write. But that really has no bearing on if you see all as one, or one as all which was the subject here. This anecdote only has a bearing on if it is a multiverse or a universe.
seth 2016-02-05 09:49:21 [item 18028#44713]
yep in my metaphor the one guy “wrote the other guy out of the story”. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:53:51 [item 18028#44714]
I was referring to the other guy, did he too? He can write that both are there and still holding the rock. That is as valid a story to write as any other, no matter what the other guy writes. The other guy already contributed the circumstances for both guys to work with in their stories. They can both diverge from here with no problem … it never has to be sudden, it may only be a slow distancing as the vibrational connection between them becomes less and less in sync. Usually one guy moves away or dies or whatever story works good in the other guys beliefs.
well that is where i disagree.   that does not work in any practical universe that i have ever experienced or even want to experience.  you are describing something that is impossible.  you cannot write my part of the story and still have me help you lift the stone.  lots of different ways to say that … but they all come down to we must be making the same happening ...otherwise it doesn’t  happen.  but sure, you can write any story you want. 

Mark de LA says
Mark 2016-02-05 09:27:19 [item 18028#44698]
How do we know whether the World didn’t just end NOW & all this shit is just after-vibes? sadsurprise
dA 2016-02-05 09:28:43 [item 18028#44699]
Because you are experiencing now. Now is all there is. When the world ends, there will be no now. :)
Mark 2016-02-05 09:30:56 [item 18028#44700]
More like you are experiencing you – whatever after-vibe is left over of it anyway. (the story of NOW) laughing
dA 2016-02-05 09:32:03 [item 18028#44702]
I don’t even know what an after-vibe would be. Now is now, there is no other.
Mark 2016-02-05 09:39:49 [item 18028#44708]
NOW has nothing to do with time.  It is not an infinitesimal piece of a continuous piece of space-time or an infinitesimal bubble of quantum vibes or ….. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:41:58 [item 18028#44711]
Now is time. What we experience as time is just now from different perspectives.
Mark 2016-02-05 10:03:44 [item 18028#44719]
Or just a story you tell yourself to have a multiverse of you to play with. 
Mark 2016-02-05 10:04:58 [item 18028#44722]
Maybe no story in the first place to begin with ….
Zen – no story & no RWG & no TIME – we are no a roll! laughing

Seth says
dA 2016-02-05 09:01:05 [item 18028#44689]
It’s interesting that if Seth likes this model, which he seems to by his comments, he has so much trouble with the “you create your entire verse” model. There are the exact same model! There is no difference whatsoever. It’s like looking at a quarter and saying “I like heads. Heads feels right to me. Tails, now that doesn’t feel right at all”. Weird huh?
seth 2016-02-05 09:06:06 [item 18028#44693]
they are not the same model.   the difference is an awareness of other.  and specifically how you seem to be oblivious there.

 
dA 2016-02-05 09:12:11 [item 18028#44696]
They are all me and this is all mine is the same thing. I acknolowledge that in either way of looking at it an individual can ignore, hide, forget, choose not to know, that they are all and all is one and pretend to be an isolated entity. But once you remember, it matters not if you see all that can be experienced as being of you, or you as creating all of that. It’s all the same.
Mark 2016-02-05 09:23:12 [item 18028#44697]
seth 2016-02-05 09:35:00 [item 18028#44705]
actually quite a simple awareness.   in a metaphor:  two people are lifting a very heavy stone … both are acting from the same force … now suppose for one person the other vanishes because he thinks it is all just himself   …  what happens to the stone? … well if falls to the ground.   that you are the whole universe acting from where you are here and now,  does not imply that you are the whole universe. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:38:59 [item 18028#44707]
Depends. Did you write the other guy out of your story or not? Only you can do that, he can’t write your story, only contribute to what is possible for you to write. But that really has no bearing on if you see all as one, or one as all which was the subject here. This anecdote only has a bearing on if it is a multiverse or a universe.
seth 2016-02-05 09:49:21 [item 18028#44713]
yep in my metaphor the one guy “wrote the other guy out of the story”. 
dA 2016-02-05 09:53:51 [item 18028#44714]
I was referring to the other guy, did he too? He can write that both are there and still holding the rock. That is as valid a story to write as any other, no matter what the other guy writes. The other guy already contributed the circumstances for both guys to work with in their stories. They can both diverge from here with no problem … it never has to be sudden, it may only be a slow distancing as the vibrational connection between them becomes less and less in sync. Usually one guy moves away or dies or whatever story works good in the other guys beliefs.
seth 2016-02-05 10:01:13 [item 18028#44718]
well that is where i disagree.   that does not work in any practical universe that i have ever experienced or even want to experience.  you are describing something that is impossible.  you cannot write my part of the story and still have me help you lift the stone.  lots of different ways to say that … but they all come down to we must be writing the same story ...otherwise the story does not happen. 
dA 2016-02-05 10:04:31 [item 18028#44720]
I cannot write your story at all no. I cannot change your experience one wit with my will or my writing. All I can do is take the vibrational material we co-create and write my story with it. You write yours … I cannot change your experience other than by influence. That sure matches all that I have ever seen or heard of.
seth 2016-02-05 10:08:21 [item 18028#44724]
i don’t have any logical problem with that … even though i don’t like your model … as i explained elsewhere. 
dA 2016-02-05 10:12:22 [item 18028#44727]
Okay. I am only saying that the story in this thought and my preferred perspective are simply two perspectives on the same idea, the same scenario. I see it as you looking at a coin and saying “heads is good, I like how that feels to me. Tails is bad, don’t wanna look at that.” And true, you don’t ever have to look at the tails side, but it is still the same one quarter if you do or don’t look at the other side.
seth 2016-02-05 10:20:14 [item 18028#44729]
there is a lot of confusion in this train about whether one is talking about what is being called  “a story” and what is actually “a happening”.   at this level of detail, that kind of fuzziness, me thinks, must be resolved.  but at the heart of the matter, would that all of the semantics becomes agreement,  i expect we are saying the same thing.  i just always feel a winch when you say things in peculiar ways. 
dA 2016-02-05 10:27:04 [item 18028#44730]
Well I agree with all that, even about my words being different. As Bandler says, you can’t do the same thing in the same way and expect a different result. That applies to how one speaks as much as anything else. I desire to inspire different thoughts. That does require different speaking. That winch you feel is the spot where a new thought is possible. Without it, there are only the old thoughts traveled yet again in at best a different way. It doesn’t have to be that exact winch, but there is always a disturbance in the force of feeling when a new potential avenue of thought has become available to be thought.
like

Seth says
Mark 2016-02-07 10:44:43 [item 18028#44875]
From the Yi Jing (Wilhelm version) (hex 36 book chameleon) 
Six at the top means:
The influence shows itself in the jaws, cheeks, and tongue. 

The most superficial way of trying to influence others is through talk that has nothing real behind it. The influence produced by such mere tongue wagging must necessarily remain insignificant. Hence no indication is added regarding good or bad fortune.

seth 2016-02-07 10:54:49 [item 18028#44876]
… which wisdom does not seem to talk about “influencing others through talk which has something real behind it”.   ← i said that to say, imho, this advise should not be used as an excuse to depreciate talking to people to influence them.
Mark 2016-02-07 11:37:41 [item 18028#44878]
So you talked about something which IS NOT in my quote laughing
seth 2016-02-07 12:01:08 [item 18028#44880]
well, in this group which i curate, I (and whoever else who wants to participate) are  learning better ways to communicate effectively … meandering from some topic is allowed where it might be useful or even entertaining.  in the case of your contribution, i assumed that it was attempting to shed some light on the train which immediately proceeded … which incidentally was very interesting.  It sure seemed to me that it was designed to depreciate just flapping ones lips unintentionally and thining that was might usefully influence people.  So i framed it so as to clarify. 

Now it seems that you have reframed that into some kind of RWG.  But what can we learn from this experience … maybe something about our developement.

In fb1 i could have just deleted your distracting reframing and we would have been done with it.  But here i cannot delete just your RWG reframing without deleting your entire contribution. 

Now in case you forgot, i had asked that you respect the etiquite here and not reframe my comments into RWG.  Hmmm … maybe i should post that more promintly untill we can get our gaming better adapted to solve these kind of problems. 
 
Mark 2016-02-07 12:04:30 [item 18028#44881]
What then did you do except to missmatch it in the first place? [see item 19856] . Curate on.  I will remember hence forth to avoid commenting here.
well you call it “mismatch” and that seems to have offended you.   i assure you that is not how i see it.   i see is more as in Dialectics

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