# Beehives

### About: honey on tap: a new beehive that automatically extracts honey without disturbing bees | colossal

Not quite as bee friendly as Gregory's beehive but ... (on reading list)

### Tags

- beehives
- fractal

### Comments

*Eiamyme says* From the same people see high speed photography of waves here.

I wonder if there is a fractal for that?

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I wonder if there is a fractal for that?

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*Seth says* im wondering if there is a fractal for anything ... you know the way any curve can be specified by a sequence of sine and cosine waves. but i really don't know if fractals always work that way.

*Mark de LA says* seth 2015-02-20 09:02:46 18145

im wondering if there is a fractal for anything ... you know the way any curve can be specified by a sequence of sine and cosine waves. but i really don't know if fractals always work that way.

What is fascinating is that we accept dots on a screen in TV & computer monitors as if they are real depictions of something in the physical world, but a mathematical combination of shapes is questionable about nature.

*Seth says* choy 2015-02-21 07:21:34 18145

seth 2015-02-20 09:02:46 18145

im wondering if there is a fractal for anything ... you know the way any curve can be specified by a sequence of sine and cosine waves. but i really don't know if fractals always work that way.

What is fascinating is that we accept dots on a screen in TV & computer monitors as if they are real depictions of something in the physical world, but a mathematical combination of shapes is questionable about nature.

<- that picture of a circle is one sign of it ...

and x^2+y^2=r^2 is another sign of it.

In this case we are pretty sure that both signs point to the same abstract thing.

In the case of nature and fractals i remain unconvinced. I'm thinking that the association of sign to signum there is not actually calculable but is more just metaphorical ... its like the equation of a circle woul represent something like a circle, but not actually a circle. But i don't know ... am thinking out loud here ... i would need to delve quite a bit deeper into the math of fractals to get convinced that it's relationship to actual nature is quite so direct as the one of the circle.

*Eiamyme says*& how can you trust the pixels?

*Seth says*hmmm good question.

i guess the same way we can trust anything ... we build up confidence by repeated positive results ... for example a certain pattern of pixels on the screen implies that we can go to the store and by something. were that pattern fail to yield the thing advertised, then we wouldn't trust that pattern of pixels any more.

does that answer your question?

*Seth says***looking**geometries with those formula. but i am not so sure that we have ever generated any given real natural geometry, like those waves for example from any particular fractal formula.

i think some shapes in nature are growing according to fractal geometry ... like this pineapple for example ... but i seriously doubt that everything changes that way.

*Eiamyme says* the fractals are just a description. (said before) The geometry is just a math picture of something.

*Seth says* Eiamyme 2015-02-21 12:54:46 18145

the fractals are just a description. (said before) The geometry is just a math picture of something.

ok that works as far as i know ... at least in lieu of an actual new discovery, of the sort that would be published in Nature. Perhaps there is a thingey or process which twists the pattern of growth of a pineapple into the same pattern that can be described by a fractal formula ... or not. I mean what is the formula? I don't know, or even for that matter, i don't know if anyone else knows. Do you know the pineapple formula? I seem to remember that Gregory thought he knew the formula ... but afaik he didn't write it down.

*Eiamyme says* A local beekeeper added this comment from facebook.

source: ... This is a method that needs to be looked at clearly and critically. We need to ask with each new invention that we think up, what is the purpose? What need is this serving? This is especially true in regards to anything we invent in relation to the honeybee, an animal that is akin to a patient in the emergency room. Are her needs served? Or only ours?

...

*Seth says* might be interesting to grock how restricting inventions relates to fractal growth

*Eiamyme says* seth 2015-02-22 10:42:28 18145

yes .

i see thinking one can anticipate all the "purpose and need " of an invention in advance of deployement is definitely a bit over involuting. The point is, me thinks you cannot know that. So following that rubic means frequently not evolving or revolving. None the less, where one can anticipate the results, one certainly should. It's just that any being's ability to do the calculations are really quite limited.

Eiamyme 2015-02-22 10:26:33 18145

seth 2015-02-22 09:57:08 18145

might be interesting to grock how restricting inventions relates to fractal growth

involution, evolution, revolution & convolution exist

yes .

i see thinking one can anticipate all the "purpose and need " of an invention in advance of deployement is definitely a bit over involuting. The point is, me thinks you cannot know that. So following that rubic means frequently not evolving or revolving. None the less, where one can anticipate the results, one certainly should. It's just that any being's ability to do the calculations are really quite limited.

.. & then of course someone invented fractals & created art out of mathematics & then that art described nature & real world stuff in some fidelity & in some ares not so much & ..

Genesis I,26: ... 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

... the first fractal, eh?

*Seth says* Eiamyme 2015-02-22 10:26:33 18145

seth 2015-02-22 09:57:08 18145

might be interesting to grock how restricting inventions relates to fractal growth

involution, evolution, revolution & convolution exist

yes .

i see thinking one can anticipate all the "purpose and need " of an invention in advance of deployement is definitely a bit over involuting. The point is, me thinks you cannot know that. So following that rubic means frequently not evolving or revolving. None the less, where one can anticipate the results, one certainly should. It's just that any being's ability to do the calculations are really quite limited.