Action and Story

There is a distinction between action that happens before its corresponding story, and action that happens after its corresponding story.

Now i intentionally stated that from the point of view of action, rather than story.  A more traditional representation of that thought would be:  There is a distinction between story that follows action and explains or rationalizes it, and story that happens before an action and predicts or calculates its results.

Pre and post stories are very different ... they have different consequences.

Take for example statistics.  Well i haven't a story to tell about that yet, but it would obviously get into the whole extensional stance bru ha ha ... and, strangely enough might connect with quantum entanglement.  Which is why i think it is a fertile area to think before any actions happen in that regard ... except of course this story here ...
... that one is suppose to be funny 

Incidentally, this author thinks that one can tell the story above and substitute the word "though" for the word "story" and preserve its ring of truth.  In other words i am talking about thought, i am just using the word "story" to talk about it.

I think the story must also be told here that action itself is pure, it is that which has consequences ... it exists ... it be ... it has being, in some parlance.  It cannot be changed by any post story about it.  ... is that universally true?

Also it just came to me attention that a story is not necessarily only pre-action or post-action because a story can start in the past and extend to the future.  Any experienced NOW being a duration of time and not a infinitely thin slice thereof. 

anyway, food for later thought ...

Incidentally, in case sombody reads this later,  this item was not initially about the path to Zen consciousness, which dialogue ensued below.  Instead it was about the relationship between action and story (thought).


  1. extensional stance
  2. extensional
  3. thought
  4. action
  5. statistics
  6. quantum entanglement
  7. story
  8. time
  9. now
  10. item 18396
  11. pr


Seth says
source: mark

Your distinctions don't make much sense to me
which distinction doesn't make much sense to you?   The only big distinction that i have made here is that there are stories that are told before (pre-stories) the action, and stories that are told after the action (post-stories) ... does that distinction make sense to you?

PR seems to imply in what you quoted here that stories always relate to the person telling the story.  I just haven't found that to be the case.  But i am sure that when many people think about their lives that their thoughts are always in some way about them in their lives.  I do that too ... but not all the time.  How does that not make sense to you?

Seth says
Eiammy.. 2015-06-08 06:49:53 18389
How synchronous. I am just in the part of Pursuing Consciousness by Peter Ralston that is Chapter Nine: Transcending Your Life Story. An interesting quote/teaser is below. Please do not re-publish as that might violate his copyright. The story of yours & my life like all stories has just a little truth in it.

yes PR is talking about story that follows action ... i characterized it as "story that follows action and explains or rationalizes it" ... it seems like he has added some more words to that narrative. 

Beyond that it is unclear what he means when he says "it goes unrecognized for what it is because it is taken for granted and simply held as a reflection on reality or life".   A story about actions that already happend is a reflection of them, in my manner of speaking ...  so what specifically is the distinction that he is drawing?

Seth says
Eiammy.. 2015-06-08 06:54:25 18389
... more of the picture sec 9:10 (ibid)

yes, true, that is the nature of telling a story.  but that "it always relates to you in some way" is just part of PR's narrative ... it does not necessarily apply to everybody. many stories are told that do not relate to the the person telling the story.  

Seth says
seth 2015-06-08 08:20:34 18389
Eiammy.. 2015-06-08 06:54:25 18389
... more of the picture sec 9:10 (ibid)

yes, true, that is the nature of telling a story.  but that "it always relates to you in some way" is just part of PR's narrative ... it does not necessarily apply to everybody. many stories are told that do not relate to the the person telling the story.  

I keep wondering: is PR's insistence that it is all about one's private ego, is really pointing in the right direction?  Seems to me that it is just providing people a grand excuse to be egotistical.  No Zen there.  Of course if he is saying, hey watch how you knee-jerk-habitually  make everything about yourself to point you in the opposite direction of noticing that everything is not all just about yourself, then perhaps his message would seem valid to me.  But then, he never says that does he?  So then, sans that message,  PR's consciousness is just private ego consciousness ... er, awareness of self ... with the presumption that everything else is just more of the self same self.  Now that assumption may well be true ... though it rings false to me experientially.  But assume it is true for a moment ... then what about you ... what about you dear bro ... apparently you don't count at all ... woopse, sorry about that

So no,  "not my tempo" ... watch The Drummer for a dramatization of that phrase.

Seth says
source: PR

The story may change or ramble, and the subject matter may vary, but it always relates to you in some way -- even if only in that you are both speaker and listener. 

So if i listen to a story it somehow "relates" to me?   That has not been my experience.  Now there is no doubt that if i listen to a story, or tell a story, that i am interpreting that story and it is my being actively doing that ... but that interpretation my well have nothing to do with my self.  Though i have known people who act as if everything that is said is not separable from themselves. 

I find only confusion in PR's words leading in the wrong direction ... and not just in this one place. 

Eiammy.. says
Try reading the book it is really cheap! His point is to free oneself from what is you-self so you can become conscious of what's so.

Seth says
Eiammy.. 2015-06-09 12:22:13 18389
Try reading the book it is really cheap! His point is to free oneself from what is you-self so you can become conscious of what's so.

Well ok sure, i would expect that PR would inevitably say:  clear all the stories away and then enlightened consciousness appears ... after all that is the traditional Zen path. 

You claim you are making progress ... yet more and more all i get from you is the sensitivity of your ego, and you poking me in mine.  It is so very hard for me to reconcile that undeniable experience with some Zen state of consciousness happening over there.  Your insides being enlightened, your outsides interacting dastardly.  Sorry I can't call that consciousness. 

Anyway, perhaps you are right after all ... time for us to give up trying to have useful dialogue ... too much wasted energy with no real in-depth communication happening.  We have gotten ourselves checkmated ... too bad ... oh well ... time to accept what apparently is so.

See Also

  1. Thought with 745 viewings related by tag "time".
  2. Thought #Integrity #authenticity with 459 viewings related by tag "pr".
  3. Thought Here is with 434 viewings related by tag "thought".
  4. Thought Thought, Feeling, and Will with 400 viewings related by tag "thought".
  5. Thought Being, cause, experience & Change with 383 viewings related by tag "thought".
  6. Thought Informs with 284 viewings related by tag "time".
  7. Thought New TetModel of Psychology with 246 viewings related by tag "action".
  8. Thought The Future Supervens on the Past with 234 viewings related by tag "now".
  9. Thought The story of being, is not being with 203 viewings related by tag "story".
  10. Thought Enforcement enacted. with 191 viewings related by tag "PR".
  11. Thought about: Megaphone vs Free Speech vs Political Correctness - comment 73418 with 142 viewings related by tag "PR".
  12. Thought What process creates consciousness? with 139 viewings related by tag "pr".
  13. Thought TetModel of Feedback with 139 viewings related by tag "action".
  14. Thought tag psychological projection with 137 viewings related by tag "item 18396".
  15. Thought Example of a misassociation with 125 viewings related by tag "PR".
  16. Thought Why my trains of thought break ... with 124 viewings related by tag "thought".
  17. Thought [title (23904)] with 119 viewings related by tag "time".
  18. Thought A thought causing an action with 111 viewings related by tag "action".
  19. Thought Consciousness as "transactional relative relivance" reares it's ugly head for the first time here with 90 viewings related by tag "story".
  20. Thought Peter Ralston - Truth & Morality with 81 viewings related by tag "pr".
  21. Thought Crisps up LOA! with 79 viewings related by tag "action".
  22. Thought about: Time Might Only Exist in Your Head. And Everyone Else's with 78 viewings related by tag "time".
  23. Thought about: Dave Isay: Everyone around you has a story the world needs to hear | TED Talk | with 76 viewings related by tag "story".
  24. Thought Meaning and Awareness in a world with a variable foreground or self with 59 viewings related by tag "PR".
  25. Thought Animation sans Script with 54 viewings related by tag "story".
  26. Thought Value of Thought & Story with 52 viewings related by tag "story".
  27. Thought about: A Taste of Mind with 50 viewings related by tag "PR".
  28. Thought about: A Defense of the Reality of Time with 44 viewings related by tag "time".
  29. Thought about: Universalism - comment 76818 with 42 viewings related by tag "PR".
  30. Thought Doing ... with 38 viewings related by tag "action".
  31. Thought #KitchenOrder with 37 viewings related by tag "time".
  32. Thought Ontology & the Concept of Space with 34 viewings related by tag "time".
  33. Thought Mark obstructs awareness of The Now with 33 viewings related by tag "now".
  34. Thought the only thingeys that actually exist are unique occurrence’s connected within their context. with 29 viewings related by tag "extensional".
  35. Thought Tetrahedron with 29 viewings related by tag "thought".
  36. Thought About beliefs with 27 viewings related by tag "pr".
  37. Thought [title (25536)] with 26 viewings related by tag "thought".
  38. Thought about: what it means to live in a holographic cosmos with 25 viewings related by tag "quantum entanglement".
  39. Thought ZZ4 with 24 viewings related by tag "time".
  40. Thought Do things happen for a reason? ... with 22 viewings related by tag "story".
  41. Thought Golden Rule & Islam - Burning Questions with 19 viewings related by tag "story".
  42. Thought Life & time with 18 viewings related by tag "time".
  43. Thought The Rise of Gobbledygook. with 18 viewings related by tag "extensional".
  44. Thought about: vitamin k: jamming the transmissions with 18 viewings related by tag "action".
  45. Thought Time & the Calendar with 15 viewings related by tag "time".
  46. Thought about: how to use parallel realities - shift into an alternate universe! - youtube with 13 viewings related by tag "time".
  47. Thought Energy? What is it? with 12 viewings related by tag "story".
  48. Thought The forward flow of change can not be broken with 12 viewings related by tag "time".
  49. Thought Context is King with 10 viewings related by tag "extensional".
  50. Thought about: Megaphone vs Free Speech vs Political Correctness - comment 73418 - comment 73419 with 8 viewings related by tag "PR".