Can We destroy Symbols by Association

About: swastika - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Swastika once & ancient had all kind of positive meanings:

source: ... The Sanskrit word swastika (Devanagari: स्वस्तिक) "lucky or auspicious object".[5] The older term gammadion cross in Western literature derives mainly from its appearance, which is identical to four Greek gamma letters affixed to each other.[5]

...
Nowadays one dare not display it else they become associated to Nazis.
The same is being done to the Confederate flags:

& on & on it goes:

Comments

... says

... 2015-06-28 11:20:44 18485

What we got going with the Nation of Islam & the stuff started by Elijah Mohammad & Malcom X is akin to black separation. Shades of the confederacy separation. No civil war yet since there isn't a critical mass of an economy or territory that can be invaded.

.. or is there?
Obama has planted his flag in the White House & the economy of the whole country is getting destroyed .

... says

mark 2015-06-28 12:37:51 18485

seth 2015-06-28 12:11:31 18485

yes signs get switched around ... switching signs will tend to obstruct their use for what they symbolized before they got switched. Now anything can be used as a sign ... even a person ... for exampl, right wing conservative racists have been using Obama as a sign of everything they think is wrong with progressive though and action. For them he signifies everything that is wrong with tolerance and diversity.

Some of us see through them scattering their favority sign and just laugh and call it obama bashing

Just like the left wing did with Bush!

& sometimes obama deserves bashing is the right call!

... says

... 2015-07-14 10:26:48 18485

Just because I hate what your symbol means to me does that mean that your symbol means that to anyone & everyone & should be banned?

Symbols mean what the beholder makes out of them not the other way around.

... says

seth 2015-07-14 11:29:15 18485

... 2015-07-14 11:16:30 18485

... 2015-07-14 10:26:48 18485

Just because I hate what your symbol means to me does that mean that your symbol means that to anyone & everyone & should be banned?

Symbols mean what the beholder makes out of them not the other way around.

yep, pretty much

.

What did the confederate flag mean to Roof? Actually that is not even a question he said what was in his heart right there in his manifesto and then he waved that flag. Visit the KKK demonstration today ... see if you do not hear the same meaning.

Incidentally the confederate flag doesn't mean anything to me either, i didn't grow up in the south and get all of those attitudes drummed into my being. But still and all if i strongly associated my love of something with a cup of water, i would not throw it in the toilet and piss on it. I just would not do that. If i saw a group of people doing that, i would walk away from them as fast as i could. If i saw my government doing it, i would act to make them stop. But hey, you do what you think is best.

Yeah, & when you force somebody else to get rid of their symbol because YOU don't like it you are just intolerant & a fucktard!

... says

... 2015-07-14 14:34:44 18485

More Fucktards : http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/14/atlanta-naacp-chapter-calls-for-removal-massive-confederate-sculpture-in-public/
This is equivalent to getting rid of Mount Rushmore & is a tourist attraction which has nothing to do with slavery. Nice light show on the 4th of July.

I would like to know how many blacks in Africa collaborated with those selling them to the slave traders going back to Europe & America by rounding them up & finding the tribes in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa - still some today.

... says

seth 2015-07-14 16:56:15 18485

... 2015-07-14 16:51:28 18485

2015-07-14 16:42:28 18485

The responsibility is in the first amendment. If the the state no longer wants to fly the flag that is the matter of their legislation.

source: ... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

... freedom of speech is widely interpreted by the courts to include such things as flag burning. It doesn't support the wholesale removal of the confederate history & destruction of monuments such as stone mountain in Georgia & statues of the generals, etc.
In a way political correctness is against free speech. I would love to see that litigated.

well me thinks you are no engaging in imagining things that have not happened yet. actions have consequences ... but these waves will peter out as a matter or course ... either that or Roof will go down as doing the most ironic deed in US history. me, i doubt that.

They are already working on the confederate flag both at the capital & everywhere else. Stone Mountain in Georgia is being assailed by the NAACP (see previous). Not imagining. The statue of some confederate general & his remains are being considered for sale & removal ... still not imagining. Whether in the face of the Iran deal this news front goes cold is still up for grabs. Race is a hard thingy to abandon for some people. I gave it up way back in 17705 & more public on FaceBook here (with some sense of humor). But probabaly as early as 714.

... says

2015-07-14 16:42:28 18485

The responsibility is in the first amendment. If the the state no longer wants to fly the flag that is the matter of their legislation.

Seth says

source: mark

Most political & identity groups are not looking for zero-sum games but advantage instead.

a zero sum game, like the right wrong game, is payed to gain an advantage ... that is its very definition. we discussed this before when i noticed that your so called "RWG" was in fact just a alternate coding of a zero sum game ... where when someone wins someone else must loose. Of course you never acked that, but then acking is just not something that you apparently can do.

but your right of course, many identity groups leverage identifying together for the purpose of gaining advantage over others. i certainly do ack that. it is plane as the nose on my face.

but that is not the only reason groups form. groups also form because then they can interact among themselves internally at a deeper level than they could without that boundary between themselves and the larger world. oh sure then they are stronger as a group against the world. but they are also stronger internally with each other. example: a family ... and so so many more examples. in these cases there exists not the situation where their winning causes others to loose ... which of course is the essential nature of the RWG.

... says

seth 2015-07-14 16:51:33 18485

source: mark

Yeah, & when you force somebody else to get rid of their symbol because YOU don't like it you are just intolerant & a fucktard!

... well you bring up a good point. Forcing others to change their symbols is just an interpersonal power play. But then in a very real way we are each of us responsible for the symbols and stories that we interact with in our culture and society. If we are oblivious to that responsibility, then how can we ever generate the synergy and consciousness that will allow us to function beyond that of slime mold? We do not piss or shit in a public place ... that is the crime of mopey. Where do we restrain individual freedom in support of a larger society? There is no black or white rubric that i know how to use here.

Another example is: i do not want to think within the confines of this right/left political propaganda memes and concepts here. Hence i like to watch the integrity of the language and symbols in which i must interact with those others present.

South Carolina state government has legally decided that their government will no longer fly this flag. I salute that !

It is a simple thing ... with no violence involved ... and i view it as healthy that the waves of that action will spread to other instances of symbols of racism in the South.

Sorry for those who are giving up this symbol ... but there may be others that they can create which do not have that racial association. Symbols are cheep ... anybody can make them ... and anybody can fly them.

Maybe some of those symbols in the body of this item should be abandoned in good faith including most of Farrakhan's symbology.

... says

The Nation of Islam is a Black supremacist group. <== some disputed info in Wikipedia. Their own website is here. Lennon's song was born of the Viet Nam war era - quite zen in some sense. I have always liked it. One can see from the UN operations how far away we are from the notions of no countries. Maybe the notion of no gangs *people ganging up together to get leverage on others* would be a nice thought. Of course that would eliminate governments, corporations, political parties etc. The Golden Rule is still the supreme law for my guidance.

Seth says

... 2015-07-14 17:45:23 18485

seth 2015-07-14 16:51:33 18485

source: mark

Yeah, & when you force somebody else to get rid of their symbol because YOU don't like it you are just intolerant & a fucktard!

Maybe some of those symbols in the body of this item should be abandoned in good faith including most of Farrakhan's symbology.

well yes, the symbol of black power is just about as obnoxous as the symbol of white power.

i don't know about Farakhan, never really listened to his rap ... but if he is against nationalism ... i would agree with him ... and with Lennon's song ... i expect that eventually humanity will out grow nationalism just as we outgrew fuedilism.

... says

seth 2015-07-15 08:42:55 18485

people group together not just to play zero sum games. getting over those should have been in John's song.

hmmm .... i wonder if i could write the verse?

Yeah! Probably to create buzzwords. Most political & identity groups are not looking for zero-sum games but advantage instead. Racism is one such game & the politics of identity groups is another. Examining the ape & animal cultures reveals that groups form mostly for protection & aggression. I would like an example of a group of people not formed for some kind of an advantage purpose. Abstract classification into groups need not apply.

... says

seth 2015-07-15 09:47:45 18485

source: mark

Most political & identity groups are not looking for zero-sum games but advantage instead.

a zero sum game, like the right wrong game, is payed to gain an advantage ... that is its very definition. we discussed this before when i noticed that your so called "RWG" was in fact just a alternate coding of a zero sum game ... where when someone wins someone else must loose. Of course you never acked that, but then acking is just not something that you apparently can do.

but your right of course, many identity groups leverage identifying together for the purpose of gaining advantage over others. i certainly do ack that. it is plane as the nose on my face.

but that is not the only reason groups form. groups also form because then they can interact among themselves internally at a deeper level than they could without that boundary between themselves and the larger world. oh sure then they are stronger as a group against the world. but they are also stronger internally with each other. example: a family ... and so so many more examples. in these cases there exists not the situation where their winning causes others to loose ... which of course is the essential nature of the RWG.

Maybe read the fucking definition in Wikipedia again! It is not the RWG.

bolded is an abstract advantage motivation.

Seth says

yep just reread the definition. The essence of zero sum is that you cannot win, unless I loose. It is right there in the first sentences of the definition. This is oppsed to a game where both participants can win ... win/win. RWG is where i cannot be right unless you are wrong ... and of course visa versa. Same thing. It is right there in the math.

Seth says

let me ask you a question. When a family bonds together, who looses?

Seth says

ask yourself the question: who looses when we agree?

Seth says