How do true representations end up changing the truth involved?

I think representing something in a mind will change the perceptions of it in that mind.  And i do not define the boundaries of a mind as ending in a single persons skull.  Those boundaries extend out to the entire culture.  With that in mind then, yes, representing something in a mind will change the perception of the truth of it,  for that mind ... not however for other minds which are isolated and not interacting where the representations were made. 

In physics this may relate to the wave/particle experiments where observation (here called representation) changes how we must reconcile what actually happened. 

source: my comments

+Emanuele Dal Carlo the Spanish article uses  this illustration with a caption, "image in which you can see how the same phenomenon can have two different perceptions".  Yet the wave/particle duality might have more to do with whether a perception is represented (observed) in a mind (or not).  I claim that representing something in a mind changes it for that mind only.  more context here
... and elsewhere
source: my comments

brings to my mind that any words, even true ones, are necessarily in a  "this is true" plane only in the ontology of that mind.  then when we talk about what seems true to others, our egos get involved ... and the beat goes on ... and we don't even know what the drums are beating.


  1. true
  2. truth
  3. representations
  4. change
  5. item 17044
  6. contradiction


Seth says

Which gets sensationalized into the headline: New Mind-blowing Experiment Confirms That Reality Doesn’t Exist If You Are Not Looking at It .   Which headline goes way beyond the facts discovered.  I would seriously like to hear sombody dilineate the train of sound logic that gets from making observations changes the things observed, to things don't exist untill you observe them. 

... but, yes, this result does seem to support the thesis of this item.  "Representing something will alter the mind which grocks it" ... which observation is respresented here slightly differently than before.

Seth says
Thing is there is a reality to this.

When we represent something, we change it, and actually help bring it to life.

me sharing from another group on G+

Seth says
source: ...

Yeah - I thought that you would redefine the word represent to your own purposes.
Normally below I think what you mean is something else like change context or re-contextualize.
... well actually i am using a very common sense of the word "represent".  That you don't choose to grock my meaning there is just your own obstruction of understanding ... it is just what you do.

And yes, every representation will make new connections and associations and add to whatever context is already there.  If you don't intend to change what is happening in the media, don't represent anything within it ... don't throw any pebbles into the pond at all.  Not representing means you have not changed anything ... representing means that you have. 

It is actually a very simple concept ... but in your mind represent whatever to distract away from it ... i am sure then you can end up not seeng it at all.  Who knows, maybe you will see a dog instead ... keep at it long enough, you might even get to see an evil bozo.   

Seth says
source: ...
When one re-presents something one doesn't even have the thing itself but something else - perhaps a distorted copy - perhaps a photograph, painting or word pile about a scene of Nature but not the Nature itself.    If in the re-presenting of something one adds and accumulates lies the value of the original thing is lost & the re-presented thingy is useless to me. At the end of the chain of re-presenting sometimes the lost memory of what triggered the re-presenting falls into an infinite nothingness worthy perhaps of all the egoo that falls into the pit or vortex. Amusing game for those who like to play it.

... your dealing there with aspects unrelated to the what I am saying.

Here is an example more in line with what i am talking about.   Let's say you are in a relationship with someone ... and yet something has never been said in that relationship, something important, doesn't matter whether it is true to you or true to your partner, doesn't matter whether it is good or bad, the only given in this example is that it is important one way or another to the relationship.   Now, with that example firmly in mind, ask yourself how actually saying the thing to your partner will change your relationship.   So that is an example of how representing something can change the thing represented.

Here is another example.  Let's say that you get a fleeting glimpse of an idea of a possibility of something that you could do.  The possibility is the it here that is going to change.  The question is whether representing that possibility in language in your mind will change that possibility or not.

Here is another example.  Let's say a woman reporter asks you a tough question on a political stage ... and instead of answerng the question as obectively as possible, instead you attack the personality of the woman ... you represent your anger.  Does that make that anger less or greater?  So the (in this case public) representation of your anger changed the anger itself.

So i generalize here a bit and say that representing something can (and usually does) end up changing the thing represented. 

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