The importance of naming
A common concept in history is that knowing the name of something or someone gives one power over that thing or person. This concept occurs in many different forms, in numerous cultures"in ancient and primitive tribes, as well as in Islamic, Jewish, Egyptian, Vedic, Hindu, and Christian traditions. The strength of this belief varies, and there are certainly exceptions to it. Nonetheless, the persistence and historical continuity of the linking of naming and power are unmistakable. Some scholars find it embedded in the first verses of Genesis, probably written over three thousand years ago; others believe it to be an intrinsic characteristic of classical Greek religion; still others find it a central feature in magic and folklore; and modern feminists often see it as the reason that a woman in marriage is traditionally asked to take the name of her new husband. In all these cases, naming something or someone is seen as the exertion of dominion over that thing or person. Several twentieth-century mathematicians gave naming a peculiar twist that reflected their deep religious mysticism and influenced their creativity.
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In modern mathematics, the naming theme emerges in different ways. The great Russian-French mathematician Alexander Grothendieck"still alive but no longer active as a mathematician"put a heavy emphasis on naming as a way to gain cognitive power over objects even before they have been understood. One observer of Grothendieck's work wrote, "Grothendieck had a flair for choosing striking, evocative names for new concepts; indeed, he saw the act of naming mathematical objects as an integral part of their discovery, as a way to grasp them even before they have been entirely understood." Mathematicians often observe that, on the basis of intuition, they sometimes develop concepts that are at first ineffable and resist definition. These concepts must be named before they can be brought under control and properly enter the mathematical world. Naming can be the path toward that control.
In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, this topic became critical when mathematicians developed whole classes of "mathematical objects" of which no one had earlier conceived. Being totally unknown, they arrived unnamed. There was even serious doubt that they truly "existed." Maybe they did not deserve names.
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Comments



Furthermore: the symbol must be perceptual somehow
(see next comment)




The greatest challenge is the illusion that you are thinking about something other than your symbols.


Well in my own words i call it "importance" and the social effect i highlight in my last statement. Loren Grahm was talking about how naming has historically dove tailed into being able to practically get a grasp on a situation. Its effect on math, i thought was especially telling. I don't think there is any magical power involved ... but historically people have believed that. The power is practical. For example: I cannot agree to meet you in San Francisco unless we can agree on a symbol for you and me and San Francisco. No magical power there, just practical method.
The greatest challenge is the illusion that you are thinking about something other than your symbols.


nope, ususally by phenomena that can be sensed. sometimes if the matter at hand is about symbols, then the match is also in the plane of the symbols ... that happens a lot in math and logic. But if we agree to meet in Paradise at high noon, and we mee there, then we have verified what we mean by "you" and "me" and "Paradise" and "noon" and "we" with our other senses.


I don't think the three elements of signs are symmetrical like in this diagram ... and may not be adequately labeled there. For example there may not be a path between what is labeled "concept" in Sowa's diagram and what is labeled "object".

I'm thinking it may be more like this.
Symbol mediates object to consciousness.
There is no path from object to awareness, except where the object is already "within" that which is represented inside the being ... for example emotions and thoughts. This me thinks is where PR gets his "direct awareness".
Clearly this has bearing on the Spiritual World ... relating to this kind of ontology

so my response is :

it is your assumption that i have not already done exactly what you suppose that i have not.
... and your assumption does not change anything over here ... or inform my query ... rather it just informs me that you have an specific belief about my awareness over here ... which, as far as i can tell, is erroneous.
Well yes. But things are represented in being. My emotions just are, they don't necessarily represent something else.

But there are things represented in my being. For example that glass there in the picture. It is not in my being. Yet i am aware of it. It is represented there. And now that particular glass half full of water is also reprenented in your being.




Well in my own words i call it "importance" and the social effect i highlight in my last statement. Loren Grahm was talking about how naming has historically dove tailed into being able to practically get a grasp on a situation. Its effect on math, i thought was especially telling. I don't think there is any magical power involved ... but historically people have believed that. The power is practical. For example: I cannot agree to meet you in San Francisco unless we can agree on a symbol for you and me and San Francisco. No magical power there, just practical method.
You could watch a apple falling out of a tree or ponder the consequences of the equations of gravity . Most of what you are talking about is beyond need.



That sign represents the number, yet it is not the number.
Please refer to the semantic triangle. Trust me that is the way these things are talked about in our culture.
see 16326
Things are NOT represented in being (yours above). So I guess NOT.
in fact we could define your usage of "being" as that which does not contain any representations.
still and all there is a part of you which does contain representations. maybe i could just use the word "you" to refer to both parts.
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