thought

i'm curious ... what do you consider to be detectable "as a thingie" according to your reference  in 19011 ... what sort of things qualify for that distinction in your ontology?

Most of the  references below can be clarified if you don't know to what they refer ... although some of them are perhaps too ambiguous.    My inquiry here is not about how specifically the terms refer to the thingies ... but rather which of them you consider detectable ... in other words, my inquiry is not about quibbling about the references.

Examples for your consideration ...................

the fact that the circumference of any circle can be divided by its diameter ~3.1416 times

the price of oil on the global market at any particular time

that a object suspended above the ground will fall to the ground when its restraints are removed

that most humans are born with two arms, two feet, two eyes, two ears, a mouth and a nose

the Japanese maple in my patio

socialism

this website

the lamp lighting the room in which i type this phrase

that the energy in a closed system can be measured to be the same before and after any process it undergoes

the last cup you drank out of

the computer on which you are typing

you

me

Nathan

capitalism

Tina

the path of the moon about the earth

liberty

the fact that energy is conserved in all changes

Superman

a purple haze around your neighbor

honesty

exactly what i will do tomorrow

exactly what you will do tomorrow

what your spouse intends to do next

what you intend to do next

the beauty of the last thing you saw which you felt was beautiful

the energy of a 1 pound ball fired into the air at sea-level at 20 miles per hour

whether something is or is not a thingie.


I actually am curious what "detectable as a thingie" means to you ... this is not RWG ... there is no right or wrong judgements here ... just an honest inquiry.  

I answered these questions myself in 19026 which i will make public if you choose to answer them too.

Tags

  1. detectable
  2. ontology
  3. inquiry
  4. item 19025

Comments


Mark de LA says
P.2621 #22,1 83-1-2-12-11-14-WED (28.09 yrs ago)
" (2461) ... Dai yot yao gih #22, MWOI TZI, "Almost-done, Moon of Sun, Yesod of Tipareth, Restrictions of Realised Self = THreat of Lightning, &c - kon chirk. Con P.1715 & P.1649 . Pristine Realities evolve to Symbols; Logic, Language, Logos emanates from the Father, not from Nothing except as it seems, of Tertullian pee;thus "The Heart girt with a Serpent" has parallels in Ontogeny & Phylogeny.  If you want to dunk your doughnut, go ahead & dunk it! "It is a lie, this folly against self" - Awareness, Attention is the function of the Ego;  Brightness, Brilliance, Luminosity which is measured by Photons increase with Development.
(2642) CONSCIOUSNESS is awareness of the part which self takes in production of a judgment either as a cause or effect = cause when I act on another, effect when I act on myself, when my hand touches my head, e.g., "I am an effect". Believe a cause exists without an effect or vice versa if you like to be mystifyied or misdirected.  The categories of Reality are, number, space, motion, time & judgment;  if it be a thing it must have unity, it must be one, or it does not exist.  Also it must have extension, speed, persistence & consciousness;  these cats [categories] or essentials are independent but concomitant; the thing is its component essentials;  there is no "ding an sich".  From here we can go to the subject of "Electricity" & what happens to make it positive or negative, the yang & yin! .."
&







<<== (*)



















Yeah - too much of a salad to worry about.  My take on knowledge, reality etc is covered in the Tai Shu Commentary extracts above & what I have already written so far. Enjoy.


Mark de LA says
seth 2015-11-11 09:48:06 19025
ok.   how's your health ... how are you feeling .... are your artificial teeth working for you ... can you eat with them ... can you talk with them ... how have you adapted to them?
I meet with my new teeth tomorrow morning for the first time - will let you know. Health is OK.


Mark de LA says
Direct experience carries with it its own validity - no need to argue or munge around in it.  It is not even lacking in science because it needs none.


IamanI says
choy 2015-11-11 10:17:04 19025
seth 2015-11-11 09:48:06 19025
ok.   how's your health ... how are you feeling .... are your artificial teeth working for you ... can you eat with them ... can you talk with them ... how have you adapted to them?
I meet with my new teeth tomorrow morning for the first time - will let you know. Health is OK.

I met with the final mold this morning ~ 8:30 - fairly nice fit & approved the esthetics. In a couple of weeks I should have ones I can wear & do the first test run.


Seth says
source: on facebook re ontologySeth Russell d'Artagnan Evergreen Barbosa

well the people who make their living on building ontologies will certainly agree with me and mark that there are many of them. Thing is, i think that you are assuming that ontology is the territory, whereas it has been treated in our culture as the map. I go with the assumption that there are many maps to this territory that is actually happening here ... the one that i cannot break is mine.
...

IamanI says
seth 2015-11-20 13:06:02 19025
source: on facebook re ontologySeth Russell d'Artagnan Evergreen Barbosa

well the people who make their living on building ontologies will certainly agree with me and mark that there are many of them. Thing is, i think that you are assuming that ontology is the territory, whereas it has been treated in our culture as the map. I go with the assumption that there are many maps to this territory that is actually happening here ... the one that i cannot break is mine.
...
An ontology as used here is like a consistent dictionary & semantics describing some domain of interest that is relatively self-contained for use with semantic networks.  Outside of pure & impure linguistics ontology is aligned with epistemology, philosophy & zen (PR) as the study of Being.  The favorite barely ponderable words in the zen domain are:
  • NOW
  • Existence
  • IS
  • Nothing
  • Being
  • Experience
  • Cognition
  • I
  • self
  • Stuff
  • Consciousness
source: ... But to be clear, I’m not saying that “experiencing for yourself” is the same as believing or concluding about what’s true. That’s not progress. Simply consider: the assumption that perception is needed or can be used to encounter your true nature is false. Perception is an illusion, an overlay or superimposition upon reality, and exists only as a function and figment of Mind. Challenge the assumption that you are located as the source “object” of perception, or that perception implies a location or located perceiver. These are big sticking points for everyone, but transcending them empowers the possibility of direct-consciousness. There is nowhere to go and nothing to see.

Ralston, Peter (2015-03-10). Pursuing Consciousness: The Book of Enlightenment and Transformation (Kindle Locations 4146-4151). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.
...

Seth says
maybe this is all about people learning to change their stories like they change their attire.   I mean is our life story all that different than just the style of clothes we wear in public? - metaphorically like the shoes we have on.

PR's story of "life story" is that it is just a story and as such exists only in the flatland of his mind ... which, incidentally, i also believe.  but in the language of his mind he imagines  his story disintegrating, assuming that the flatland in which it existed will expand -  his awareness (counsciousness) suddenly existing directly outside of the flatland in which, i presume, he still swims.  A neat trick indeed.  unfortunately it requires the assumption of a story which is itself still in flatland.  Sorry, I don't get there from here through his words ... i would require more than just choosing to assume.

I do think it is progress to see ourselves as having our life story on, like their shoes ... and as such can be changed!.   Yesterday i walked in the mall seeing all the different attire and how each tells of the life story of the person wearing them.  So I can well imagine that i can take my shoes off,  and then just be with no shoes.   Am i aware with no shoes on? ... i am not ... it seems those very shoes are necessary for that awareness.   Assuming in my story that I am aware even when i've taken off my story, would be to lie to myself.  That is just me of course ... others will certainly have other experiences and stores to honestly tell.  The best i can do is to realize that I am what is left when i've taken off my shoes.  I am the story that i cannot take off.


but there is something else that i need to get to here ... later ... duty calls.

Seth says
choy 2015-11-21 08:56:32 19025
seth 2015-11-21 08:38:04 19025
source: mark

I thought I told you my Kindle doesn't do that.
Yep. 


What options are presented when you select text?

A strip with 4 color boxes & further options of "note, comment more ..."
The only one that applies is "Comment"
When I follow that I get a page that is titled "Shared Notes & Highlights"  I am neither connected to twitter or facebook both of which are the only options ... there is an option to share button which I pushed .... did you get anything.  I am unclear how it is supposed to know where goodreads is.  Anyway I pushed it & nothing happened.  It did say that Eileen Coady shared the passage I selectged.  Does she have to join?

okay, i see no effect to your profile from what you did.   quite unlike when i click to share a passage on my profile.  perhaps your markings stay only on your devise.  too bad .

Seth says
choy 2015-11-20 20:29:13 19025
seth 2015-11-20 19:28:07 19025
choy 2015-11-20 18:35:23 19025
seth 2015-11-20 17:05:54 19025
okay i will think about what PR said there

The advantage of maintaing an account at goodreads.com is that you can establish a shareable link to the exact scripture, as i have just demonstrated


I used the Kindle app which runs under windows 10 - works fine for publishing. Apparently I am on Goodreads. I don't want yet another app trying to mine my facebook & emails for contacts.
Enjoy.

i may have  mentioned before, you do not need to sign on with facebook ... sign on with your own email and password and goodreads will know nothing about your facebook contacts.  when you share, uncheck facebook and twitter and your updates will go just to goodreads. 

but anyway, though perhaps unrelated, if you search for things like products at google, facebook already knows that and makes that information available to its advertisers.  i know that for a fact ... i think there is far more information sharing about you going on between the big players than you ever imagined ... you may think you are anonymous when you go on the web, but i don't think you are.
share with what ?  I have no place to enter goodreads as a place to share it.  It is not so much being anonymous it is how easily available my stuff is for data mining.

try selecting that same paragraph and then sharing it with your goodreads account only.  as we are goodread friends now, your comments and my comments should end up on that same page.  who knows, maybe peter might want to chirp in on that page.  this is an excellant way for authors to have a conversation with their audience. 

re anonymous - in my opinion, when it comes to the internet, if you don't want your effect to be noticed, don't go there.  you may think you can go there and not be noticed, but imho, that is a delusion.  however where you can be anonymous, you are like a ghost trying to have fun at a house party with an invisible body?  to what effect?  but of course, your choice ... no pressure from me ...  but me, i don't have an invisible body in this game.

Seth says
Blow-Out-A 2015-11-21 12:24:28 19025
You might do better if you talked about your own story instead of what you assume/presume is PR's when he still uses one. Nice attempt to run a munge on my LBGT post.


Good call to put your reference here in your group since your comments had nothing really to do with my post or my point.
(;-(
yep, i realized that it was not really good on the twist on the topic there.   not to mention that you would have just reframed it or deleted it.

nevertheless my comment  is related to your questions like, "Is transgender just a fad like hula hoops?", there : Yes, it is like a suit of clothes that people have started wearing ... it is their life story.  you have one too.  don't we all.   I say it is great to be able to change our stories ... that's been mine, ever since in my insanity i managed to change it hourly ... so i think i am good at it.    But eliminate the stories of mind entirely? ... for what ... to tell a story of nothing that anybody else can know?  Sorry not my thing.  I'm  like a ballarena who has lived her entire life perfecting, valuing, and representing her dance on the stage and sees no value to her selling fish in the market - it's just not dancing.  I am a fish swimming in water ... walking on land means nothing to me at all. 

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