Awareness, Attention is the function of the Ego

About: CFR document page 2621


I think the assertion in the title of this item is true almost by definition.  if you doubt, try imagining awareness in a universe with no division.  it cannot happen, unless something functions thusly in relation to what it itself is not. 

representation carries the same necessity for attention as ego …
 

the awareness of a thing
is the thing represented
inside what an ego is separating
itself from what it is not

-- Bozo Faust

Tags

  1. ego
  2. awareness
  3. item 19025
  4. bozo sayings
  5. representation
  6. item 19030
  7. kreation

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2015-11-12 11:14:25 19030
choy 2015-11-12 11:00:17 19030
It is not the sole function.

probably true but fairly well irrelevant to the topic at hand.
as is your comment ripped out of GW's context.
See Pursuing Consciousness (PR) ΒΆ12:51-12:53  attention & is .....

Mark de LA says
The beginning of the first paragraph of the Tao Teh Ching
source: ...
The way that can be spoken of
 Is not the constant way;
The name that can be named
Is not the constant name.
The nameless was the beginning of heaven and earth;
The named was the mother of the myriad creatures.
... Awareness & consciousness are separate from words & sentences.


Mark de LA says
seth 2015-11-14 14:52:54 19030
MR 2015-11-14 14:30:45 19030
seth 2015-11-14 14:27:50 19030
MR 2015-11-14 14:08:59 19030
MR 2015-11-14 14:08:16 19030
In an not yet online liber of Crowley (LXXXI) nbr assigned to Moonchild online - first 2 pages here.

The Tao-Path is not the All-Tao
   The name is not the Thing named.


Well of course saying "the name is not the thing named" is saying "a representation of a thing is not the thing itself" ... and is saying the same thing as the famous meme, "the map is not the territory". 

Strangely enough there is a non trivial case where that does not hold ... the case where the thing is the self.   A true experience of yourself is not a mere representation of yourself.  However with all other things, all you get is just the representation.

Yep - that would be the direct experience can't be represented!

Yes - "that" being self's experience of self ... for once we agree.  All else, however, is indirect.
Nope - an experience is a representation & you doubly nested such away from the direct experience which , of course is neither an experience nor "direct", but those are the best words we (PR et al.) have at this time.


Seth says
MR 2015-11-14 14:30:45 19030
seth 2015-11-14 14:27:50 19030
MR 2015-11-14 14:08:59 19030
MR 2015-11-14 14:08:16 19030
In an not yet online liber of Crowley (LXXXI) nbr assigned to Moonchild online - first 2 pages here.

The Tao-Path is not the All-Tao
   The name is not the Thing named.


Well of course saying "the name is not the thing named" is saying "a representation of a thing is not the thing itself" ... and is saying the same thing as the famous meme, "the map is not the territory". 

Strangely enough there is a non trivial case where that does not hold ... the case where the thing is the self.   A true experience of yourself is not a mere representation of yourself.  However with all other things, all you get is just the representation.

Yep - that would be the direct experience can't be represented!

Yes - "that" being self's experience of self ... for once we agree.  All else, however, is indirect.

Mark de LA says
Another way of saying it is that the instant you try to represent a direct experience it disappears !

Mark de LA says
GW says it a similarly in the Tai Shu Commentary: (spiritual = direct experience)

P.1688 #5,4 65-3-1-2-10-33-TUE

" ... Here we are sure of ultimate success consisting of achievement of our purpose, i.e. by going forward to overcome danger involved in treading on tiger's tail. Good fortune comes because what is willed is done / Followed by /5 whose subject is in place of authority.  /4 occupies place of yin, hence, realising this, he thinks carefully & goes softly!  Spiritual experience, unlike physical, is not remembered, but must be recreated anew each time, often in a different way, only the results, not the method being the same.  Recognition spiritually this involves more positive action.  This approach is shown in application & interpretation of this fourth line. To see something spiritual we have to go where it is. "



Seth says
MR 2015-11-14 15:18:17 19030
Another way of saying it is that the instant you try to represent a direct experience it disappears !

well on that we also agree .   And i think we agreed that being conscious of one's self is direct experience, no representation involved.   And i would add, no representation necessary because it is all there already.

Where we might disagree is about otherness .... about that which is not already self.  I say for a person to be aware of anything that is not already them, they must represent it inside of themselves ... they cannot have any direct experience of anything that is not already there.  

So if the spiritual world is available as direct experience, then it must already exists in the person's self.  It is not other than what they already are. 

And strangely enough that is consistent with everything i have heard CFR or Steiner say about their spiritual world.

Seth says
choy 2015-11-15 09:02:42 19030
seth 2015-11-15 08:33:07 19030
MR 2015-11-14 15:18:17 19030
Another way of saying it is that the instant you try to represent a direct experience it disappears !

well on that we also agree .   And i think we agreed that being conscious of one's self is direct experience, no representation involved.   And i would add, no representation necessary because it is all there already.

Where we might disagree is about otherness .... about that which is not already self.  I say for a person to be aware of anything that is not already them, they must represent it inside of themselves ... they cannot have any direct experience of anything that is not already there.  

So if the spiritual world is available as direct experience, then it must already exists in the person's self.  It is not other than what they already are. 

And strangely enough that is consistent with everything i have heard CFR or Steiner say about their spiritual world.
Well, RS & GW & PR identify parts of the Ego & what the ordinary person only vaguely call the higher & the other part of self. The human being evolves the higher self leaving behind the lower self (that selfie created out of protecting identity & all that stuff in the first part of BofNK).


Logically i don't see how "higher self" changes the situation ... it just substitutes "higher self" for "self" when considering direct experience and what i said above still rings true.  The only place that breaks down is if "higher self" includes everything, hence to it there is no otherness.    Then in that case all above rings true, but then higher self is just all there is ... and if you have direct experience there your are the universe. 

Otherness is not my Ego. 
No it isn't.   Glad we agree there .

Seth says
source: mark 
Otherness never becomes self either.
interesting conjectrure .... if I walk down the street and see a lamp post ... that lamp post is not me ... rather it is otherness ... and it's otherness becomes represented in me by the images of it going in my eye holes.   now were I to encounter something else ... something more interactive ... something far more complex ... and suppose i interact it wilth a very long time and at great deapth ... and i end up acting with it cooperatively and in tandem.   not what I am is a somewhat arbritray bondary ... who is to say that we cannot draw the boundary around both of us ... me and that thingey i encountered.  i think that is how otherness can actually become self. 

Seth says
source: mark

[Too much BULLSHIT!] Rarely do you actually READ what I write. [Your mindreading is NOT improving.] You are the one making selfie pronouncements of your philosophy. [Enjoy the buzz.]

Well yes of course, what i write here is expressing my philosophy.

And i do read what you write with great care.  I do not speed read through it,  as it appears that you do with my materials ... nor do i hail unsubstantiated judgements, and self serving commands, at you. 

The only things to which i intentionally do not respond,  are the ones which seem to me to be just RWG arguments.

Incidentally if i mis-interpret what you say, please do correct me.  I will try to give you the same respect ... at least where i think it should not lead to RWG.  And if i miss something, this is not just an insult or RWG,  and if it is important to your point of view, please do bring it to my attention again.

Seth says
choy 2015-11-15 12:43:54 19030
seth 2015-11-15 12:35:29 19030
source: mark 
Otherness never becomes self either.
interesting conjectrure .... if I walk down the street and see a lamp post ... that lamp post is not me ... rather it is otherness ... and it's otherness becomes represented in me by the images of it going in my eye holes.   now were I to encounter something else ... something more interactive ... something far more complex ... and suppose i interact it wilth a very long time and at great deapth ... and i end up acting with it cooperatively and in tandem.   not what I am is a somewhat arbritray bondary ... who is to say that we cannot draw the boundary around both of us ... me and that thingey i encountered.  i think that is how otherness can actually become self. 
That's all a story about absorbing representation & imagining the process.  When you finally directly experience who you are (or your higher EGO) you will not find any of that shit there.
.... fun stuff from tai shu commentry for today's H56.L3
P.2379 #56,3 78-5-3-19-6-55-FRI (32.25 yrs ago)
" ... Dai sarm yao hih Eqx Hex #56 YU: kon P.1705 & P.1565.  Our comment, as usual, is most apt!  No matter how much you can say against it, often there is one specific in its favor that balances out all the contradictions!  A Free Deed never asks 'Why";  an independent thought cannot be rational -thus from the established viewpoint it has to be absurd - (kon Tertullius) - if the Supreme Mystery conformed to materialistic formulae who wouldn't be an Atheist!? Is God to live in a Dog?! "


Well yes my story here is logical analysis trying to connect to what can be verified externally and what follows from that in the context of the language of our culture. It deals with the same matters as PR 12.50-52 but with different input assumptions.  It does not attempt to break reason and what follows, as does PR, but rather to create a working model of the situation which matches what can be objectively observed, instead of the relying merely on the satisfactions of ego itself. 

take it for a logical analysis of what follows, or just go with your judgements of shit.  But there is nothing to be gained by using egocentric certainty against shared object ... or mystery against reason.  Such will just heat up our selves, with no profit to our mutual understanding.

Seth says
source: mark

Then too if your consciousness can ONLY EXTEND TO MALKUTH (PHYSICAL) - that's all you will ever find or get.


BTW, that's fine with me if you want to stay there - but I refuse to be stuck with YOUR limits!



Well yes it is clear that you, and the philosophers to whom you listen, have a prejudice against what you spit out of your mouth as "physical and MALKUTH".  But I have no such prejudice against that shared firmament of our Kreation.  We have talked about this before and of course you have never acknowledged your prejudice, yet when it comes right down to it, you resort to shouting it as your judgment back to me, as above. 

Alternatively you prefer the certainty that springs exclusively from inside yourself to that otherness over which you have no domain. 

It is not an issue that can be resolved by direct confrontation or insults to each other.   Rather I think more mutual understanding can result, if we accept without judgement each others perspectives, and use their differences to look at the situation that we in fact share.

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