proof that the human body is a projection of consciousness : in5d esoteric, metaphysical, and spiritual database


re ...
source: nathan's share

Right on track. So many have asked me about this lately. I adore the universe for delivering the article I really didn't feel passionate about writing myself.
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Tags

  1. nathan
  2. quantum behavior

Comments


Seth says
choy 2015-11-29 12:20:47 19093
nor do I feel passionate enough to read.

apparently i am more curious as to how nathan sees things then are you.  i mean, what if this article better matches what occurs, even to you, as the story you tell yourself now?   Are you so passionately quite so very sure of your story?

Seth says
source: mark

Yeah, not passionate about your story either. I am in a quest to get rid of stories & beliefs - need them less & less each day!

... well lots of luck with that one ... while your at it, maybe try not to 'get rid' of your perception and consciousness of the outside world entirely. 

but yes truly enough, what happens is necessarily better than your story of what is happening, ... or least that is my story

Mark de LA says
IMHO, Quantum Behavior is mathematics invented to describe that which is impossible to observe except in the mind.  Physically it is not there except as a concept, based on assumptions about something that cannot be evident.  Even the evident assumption that there is observation because on a global scale the "particles" exhibit behavior en-mass predictable by the little genie behind the curtain "quantum" is only a myth that someday be disproven by even more interesting mathematics of multiple universes, higher dimensions >3, membranes, strings, et al. all gross level objects that behave differently in the observable world we live in than at the infinitely smaller world we imagine. 

A good course in statistics is also a good disabuser that truth & lies are proved by collecting data & applying mathematical functions.  Statistics only play with what you choose to focus upon.



Mark de LA says
It is hard to stomach reading an article that begins with
bs: ... One of the key principles of quantum physics is that our thoughts determine reality. Early in the 1900’s they proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt with an experiment called the double slit experiment. They found that the determining factor of the behavior of energy (‘particles’) at the quantum level is the awareness of the observer.
... because
  • the double-slit was about the behavior of light or electro-magnetic energy
  • not thoughts & mind
  • if it was about mind then a researcher could have directed all the light to go through one specific slit.
  • there are way too many falsehoods in the first paragraph


Seth says
choy 2015-11-29 13:29:53 19093
seth 2015-11-29 13:17:24 19093
source: mark

Yeah , the story is less than the percepts & consciousness. So not getting rid of them yet.
... well i would say that the story was the results of the perceprion.  It is what gets represented in consciousness.  So yes, if my model obtains, getting rid of the story will necessarily get rid of the consciousness ... unless you can somehow find a way to obviate the law of cause and effect which in this context goes: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Yep, that's why I don't regard your story passionately enough to absorb any of it.

well i don't really know what your "that" refers to.

but that you, "don't regard [my] story passionately enough to absorb any of it" and think that reaction is so very  very "" is not at all surprising ... nothing new there ... it happens time and again without change ... almost like it was automatic for you to do.

interesting though, how nathan and eric have gotten into this over there at facebook, eh?  oh well, put fire and water together and guess what, you get steam ... now that is indeed, .

Seth says
M 2015-11-30 10:43:05 19093
IMHO, Quantum Behavior is mathematics invented to describe that which is impossible to observe except in the mind.  Physically it is not there except as a concept, based on assumptions about something that cannot be evident.  Even the evident assumption that there is observation because on a global scale the "particles" exhibit behavior en-mass predictable by the little genie behind the curtain "quantum" is only a myth that someday be disproven by even more interesting mathematics of multiple universes, higher dimensions >3, membranes, strings, et al. all gross level objects that behave differently in the observable world we live in than at the infinitely smaller world we imagine. 

A good course in statistics is also a good disabuser that truth & lies are proved by collecting data & applying mathematical functions.  Statistics only play with what you choose to focus upon.



Quantum Behavior by Feynman is an excellant find .. very clear, i will need to study that in detail.

Yes i agree, the quantum model predicts happenings which are impossible to observe with our bare senses and represent in our minds ... observations that match that model must be made by external instruments and then indirectly observed into our minds. 

you say ...
Physically it is not there except as a concept, based on assumptions about something that cannot be evident.
... well what happens, happens regardless of the concepts in our minds that make it evident ... which, of course, might be just my belief.  I was originally starteled by your sentence and went, hmmm that is true.  But now i think a higher resolution thought on it with a finer attention to exact focus and detail would ring truer in my mind. 



Seth says
source: mark

It is kinda like other stories - some are reliable indicators for other stuff & some are just bullshit. Science in modern years has suffered from a lot of bullshit & less scientific method.

... yep much error and, as you put it bullshit, always happens ... we swim it it, just like internet viruses.  that does not mean that the internet is not extremely useful.   the trick is to tease out what is actually happening from all the errors of perception and representation and methods and arguments and subjective egoo projections.

Seth says
a discussion of category errors might be in order ...

as inspiration, watch this ...

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-12-02 10:03:04 19093
a discussion of category errors might be in order ...

as inspiration, watch this ...
  • If all you need & want to do is fuck & be fuckable you might not need logic or math. (see the video)
  • see also: The mind-body problem.
  • What here are you pointing at that is a category error?
  • PR says direct experience is the best words he can come up with but it is neither an experience nor direct. He also uses the term enlightenment & enlightenment experience with the same problems.
  • If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it? —Albert Einstein

    Ralston, Peter (2015-03-10). Pursuing Consciousness: The Book of Enlightenment and Transformation (Kindle Locations 1087-1088). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.

Seth says
choy 2015-12-02 07:53:12 19093
Most of the problem I have with the source item is in the title, starting with the title itself & the word proog.  An epiphany itself was d'A not doing proof in yesterday's chat on fb.  I relaized this AM that might be because he started believing in a Universe run by feelings - mostly positive feelings. Thought & logic - not so much.
The second thing is that the body is a projection.  Just because you can make holograms does not mean that you can make solid things from holograms.  The title argues from analogy.
Nowhere is the idea of consciousness solidified or explained or offered up as a grok.


I tend to agree with most of that.  The article jumps from a given showing "how measuring changes the measured", to the world is a projection of thought, oblivious to any reasoning connecting conclusion to given ... the old assume what you want and look for facts that might be in the same story ... same syndrom as paranoia with positive anticipations rather than fear.  nathan is doing the same thing, imho. 

now i am not a fan of the straitjacket of logic, as you know, but there is something to be said for constructing a detailed train of thought with focus on symbols verifiabley bound to their objects instead of giant leaps with bizarre assumptions. 

interesting to compare the texture of those thoughts to those of PR's.  I mean i am all for imagination and practicing confidence leading to intuition arriving at that  "just knowing" feeling ...  manifesting the best that one can imagine ... think it and make it so ... but for that to work it must be a hands on affair with feet on the ground ... not a flame in the sky with a finger in one's egoo.  me, i like to at least see where i am falling off the edge of the world. 

Seth says
choy 2015-12-02 08:59:21 19093
I suspect that you have not read enough of PR's Pursuing Consciousness (or even BofNK) to grok the essence of what contemplation is nor that of direct consciousness is either.
Some goodies which approach the predicament:
different

The Absolute Is Beyond Distinctions

3: 51 Although it can’t be stated any more clearly, people just don’t believe that enlightenment is not something perceived in any way. Since perception is how we “know” or experience reality, we don’t imagine any other real possibility, and certainly not something weird called “direct-consciousness.” How can you relate to a statement such as: Absolute Consciousness does not exist in the domain of experience, and yet is not elsewhere? The response to such an assertion is to imagine that it is a very special form of experience, or a unique domain of perception. No. This is simply what can be thought when trying to conceptualize the matter. Of course, it is mistaken.

3: 52 It may be impossible to communicate, but it really can’t be said much better than this: Form is no different from emptiness. Emptiness is no different from form. Form is precisely emptiness, emptiness is precisely form. The Heart Sutra

Ralston, Peter (2015-03-10). Pursuing Consciousness: The Book of Enlightenment and Transformation (Kindle Locations 1089-1099). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.
...
or remember GW's statement on spiritual experiences can't be remembered but are recreated each time.


i was about to get to contemplating that in one of your items that i saw go by,  but now i can't find where to hang my thoughts.  oh well, the joys of discontinuity vs those of focus.

Mark de LA says
The picture in 11683 is just an anchor for me of a moment indescribable I had in the '70s in my apartment while living with Charlene.  I can lay out a lot of words "about" it but none of them will ever approach IT!
 

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-12-03 08:45:56 19093
choy 2015-12-03 07:46:28 19093
seth 2015-12-03 07:40:48 19093
source: mark

You left out the usual trite-ie "to assume makes an ass out of u & me" 
... yep ... er, maybe because what i said was not a good match for its tritetidity.
or maybe you just missed the point, again!

... oh, what point id i miss?
IDK, what you keep on expressing by over using the word assume does not jive with what I said regarding analogies, metaphors, similes & memes. I am getting a theme from you as of late that apparently if I am not supporting or acknowledging you point of view that I somehow violate your topic and am off-topic.  So sume
 

Seth says
choy 2015-12-02 10:31:18 19093
seth 2015-12-02 10:03:04 19093
a discussion of category errors might be in order ...

as inspiration, watch this ...
  • If all you need & want to do is fuck & be fuckable you might not need logic or math. (see the video)
  • see also: The mind-body problem.
  • What here are you pointing at that is a category error?
  • PR says direct experience is the best words he can come up with but it is neither an experience nor direct. He also uses the term enlightenment & enlightenment experience with the same problems.
  • If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research, would it? �"Albert Einstein

    Ralston, Peter (2015-03-10). Pursuing Consciousness: The Book of Enlightenment and Transformation (Kindle Locations 1087-1088). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.

  • yep
  • the duality of mind/body does seems to be  something that this new aged thinking is making a spin on.  to me, the mind represents what happens.  new aged thinking seems to assume some variation on the body represents the mind, or some other such relationship between the map & territory that suits its egotistical purposes.  not my thing, obviously. 
  • almost everything that the girls said in the video was catagory errors ... interestingly enough look what nathan said in their support.
  • i think we need to discuss "direct experience" outside of the consraints of a footnote
  • not sure how Einstein's quote comes in here

...


Seth says
choy 2015-12-03 07:46:28 19093
seth 2015-12-03 07:40:48 19093
source: mark

You left out the usual trite-ie "to assume makes an ass out of u & me" 
... yep ... er, maybe because what i said was not a good match for its tritetidity.
or maybe you just missed the point, again!

... oh, what point id i miss?

Seth says
choy 2015-12-02 11:22:27 19093
  Arguing with analogies, metaphors & memes is probably the most prevalent category errors of the day.

The old man used to ask the question: "If my asshole was a circus would you go inside? ........ Hell, NO! You would probably just lick around the outside"
 

well an analogy is best use in a description for the sake of communication.  But yes certainly,  it is a grave  error to "assume that the analogy applies where it does not".   Just like it is an error to assume that any representation can be used to know with absolute certainty what actually happens.  One example of that is to assume that the representations of human mental activity are what actually happens,  rather than mere representations themselves.

Seth says
For example should we always assume that, "PEOPLE that shoot PEOPLE not the GUNS." and the implications of that?  But don't answer here ... it would be off topic.

Mark de LA says
seth 2015-12-03 09:34:03 19093
choy 2015-12-03 09:17:04 19093
seth 2015-12-03 08:45:56 19093
choy 2015-12-03 07:46:28 19093
seth 2015-12-03 07:40:48 19093
source: mark

You left out the usual trite-ie "to assume makes an ass out of u & me" 
... yep ... er, maybe because what i said was not a good match for its tritetidity.
or maybe you just missed the point, again!

... oh, what point id i miss?
IDK, what you keep on expressing by over using the word assume does not jive with what I said regarding analogies, metaphors, similes & memes. I am getting a theme from you as of late that apparently if I am not supporting or acknowledging you point of view that I somehow violate your topic and am off-topic.  So sume
 

Well assuming is believing something so strongly that you do not even question it at all.   I called on that every time i said it in bold type above.  I said something quite different than you said ... that was my point, not yours.

I take you point to be , that people sometimes misuse analogy ... that point was well taken.   The puns on that are common knowledge and needed no further comment from me.  rather i though i might compare analogy itself to the duality of the human predicament ... that just might be something that you never thought.
or NOT don't assume!

Seth says
choy 2015-12-03 09:51:42 19093
seth 2015-12-03 09:34:03 19093
choy 2015-12-03 09:17:04 19093
seth 2015-12-03 08:45:56 19093
choy 2015-12-03 07:46:28 19093
seth 2015-12-03 07:40:48 19093
source: mark

You left out the usual trite-ie "to assume makes an ass out of u & me" 
... yep ... er, maybe because what i said was not a good match for its tritetidity.
or maybe you just missed the point, again!

... oh, what point id i miss?
IDK, what you keep on expressing by over using the word assume does not jive with what I said regarding analogies, metaphors, similes & memes. I am getting a theme from you as of late that apparently if I am not supporting or acknowledging you point of view that I somehow violate your topic and am off-topic.  So sume
 

Well assuming is believing something so strongly that you do not even question it at all.   I called on that every time i said it in bold type above.  I said something quite different than you said ... that was my point, not yours.

I take you point to be , that people sometimes misuse analogy ... that point was well taken.   The puns on that are common knowledge and needed no further comment from me.  rather i though i might compare analogy itself to the duality of the human predicament ... that just might be something that you never thought.
or NOT don't assume!

Well not assuming (or not believing) at all, would be like throwing the baby out with the bath water.  So in which contexts is it usefull to assume, and in which is that an error?  

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