The provocation to writing about (Thinking within your Journal)


I need a catchy name for this. .... how about ....
MindJournaling

said in another context

yep i need to wrap this down ... probably in group niche.   it is a very experiential thing ... a look and feel that you would not get unless you do it.   i don't know if anybody has ever done it except me.   it is a way of writing and interacting where the way i think privatley with my eyse shut and sitting on my fingers so they cannot fly on the keyboard.  That is enhanced by opening my eyes and looking at my representations externally and navigating and retireving them and letting my fingers think/talk externally, instead of silently inside my head.    like i said, this needs to be wrapped down ... haven't explained it yet mostly because it is going to sound truly weird to many people.

if you think about it, this is just using a journal to record your thoughts ... a thing that is  recommended by just about any teacher.   but with new technology, we can evolve that recording behavior into the orignal thinking itself.   i still think privately ... prolly get my best thought there still ... but those will eventually be consigned to oblivion unless i represent them somhow ... it has always been that way, and i don't think it is just me.

Tags

  1. tagging
  2. mindjournaling
  3. nietzsche

Comments


Seth says
well one of the assumptions of MindJournaling is that finding the item where things go is super simple and fast and is not remembered by the meat of the brain, but rather by the taggings.   Another assumtion of MindJournaling is that each unique separate topic has it's own item.  

Si says
seth@niche 2015-12-13 14:34:59 [item 19186]
MindJournaling with tags is one of the things that makes fastblogit different and useful over other forums.   It is why thoughts do not get lost.   Think of how many thoughts got lost here today.  
nathan@fbi 2015-12-14 21:11:01 [item 19186]
Okay. I’ll run with that and see how it goes.

One thing I can see right off is that I have no ability to remember tags. You should understand this because you often talk about how you have a poor memory. But somehow, you remember a complex tag structure very easily. I am the opposite. There are many things I remember well, most things I would say, but not something like tags.

Hence, for this to work for me the way it is working for you I would need help. I would need either or both of a tag cloud, and a place to type in tags and when I type in a tag, that it shows me the most relevant tags that begin with what I am typing … preferably with preference to the tags I use more than the tags others use. Same for the cloud, it should be weighted towards my used tags first. Then, I might have half a chance of choosing good tags for items.  
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 05:52:32 [item 19186]
well remembering tags (as you put it)  is probably a couple of orders of magnitude harder for me than it is for you.  that is the whole point … you do not remember tags any more than you need to remember what english words mean to you. 

that said, you only get the effect if you put a lot of attention into selecting a tag itself.  and i have found it is best to select actual words that i already know.  oh sure i make up a word now and again, but when i do it is because there is not already a english word that i know that means that particular (or peculair) thing to me.
Yes, but why bother remembering and being so organized if you don’t have to? With the things I mention above, the systems does that for you. Then you only have to have a vague inkling of what a tag might feel like in order to quickly narrow down what you are looking for. Right now, I would have to be very fastidious about my organization of tag names in order to practically use this system. I want the computer to do that for me.  

fbi says
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 06:04:28 [item 19186]
well we already have a tag cloud of sorts.   go to the live server on the river and start typeing in a tag … a cloud of similar tags appears below you. 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 06:06:07 [item 19186]
That’s the second part of the feature I mention. That’s not a tag cloud

well the tag cloud relative to any particular item is shown on the item itself in the upper right hand part of its screen.

fbi says
you may be looking at the tag as the important thingey.  it is not.   the important thingie is the tag room

Si says
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 06:17:11 [item 19186]
incidentally i do not remember any complex tag organization.   i do not.   i tag as accurately as i can.  then magically when i need it all of my thoughts about something appears when i click on a tag room.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 06:32:21 [item 19186]
You don’t seem to get the problem. I’ve been down this road many times.

I start using tags. At first it’s great. I can find a few things nicely. Soon I forget all the tags I have been using and what they are for so my tags start growing out of control. Similar things that should get same tags get other tags because I didn’t remember exactly what that tag was. It doesn’t take long for tags to get so out of control that I stop using them because there are too many and they aren’t helping organize things any more, they just seem overwhelming. So I stop using tags there. Having more than one person tagging things multiplies this problem exponentially.

This is not a theory, this is how tagging works for me every time I have used it in a place where a person is not guided to choose a tag. I have gotten similar versions of this feedback from many other people. My understanding is that it is what prompted Wordpress to create tag clouds. Only a few people I know seem to be able to keep a tag cloud organized in their own head.
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 06:40:26 [item 19186]
well one of the things about using tags is that you can change and evolve them … edit them, delete them, add new ones.   this is one of those things that the more attention and energy you actually put into it, the more you will get out of it.   you are like arguing against yoga.   a dilitant at yoga will never get much out of it.   that is not a reason not to get into yoga if you want to make that your thing.  

but we all think … some more scattered than others … and at times we do not curate our minds, but alow them to grow willy nilly, which can be beautiful  … but focus can also be beautiful. 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 06:46:56 [item 19186]
True. I want the computer, or application, to do my tag “yoga” for me. Because I am fully aware as a programmer that it can. And if it isn’t going to do that for me, I’m not very interested in tags … just like many people are not interested in yoga. But on the other hand, if it did do the tag yoga for me, I would happily use it.
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 06:54:34 [item 19186]
well ok, the computer could do full text seartch and generate its own taggings … auto taggings …  is that what you are talking about?
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 07:03:23 [item 19186]
That might even be the next level. Nice to think about!  At the moment I was only thinking of auto finding … so that I can find the tag I am looking for without having to remember it. Next, it would be groovy if the computer also analyzed content and suggested tags. That’s kind of how Wolfram Alpha works. It would be a great evolution!  
fbi@bozo 2015-12-15 07:34:54 [item 19186]
hmmm ...trying to get this comment off of my plate ...it keeps comming up
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 07:49:25 [item 19186]
Getting something off you plate actually (in all realities) has nothing to do with anyone else. And it is the same here. You only have to formulate the path in your mind and the universe will align you with it. If it keeps coming back into your awareness, then it simply means you have not imagined a way out.  
seth@fbi 2015-12-15 08:32:42 [item 19186]
lol … you said that to say what?

me, i was just trying to figure out how the new gadget worked laugh

but you bring up an important point … reading and responding to news must needs be a local affair and has only to do with the person’s personal focus.   so using public info to sequence that is always going to create a tension.  i said that to think about your [hide this comment] gadget, which is private to an person … the other feature here that is private to a person is whether they clear  news or not. 

that said, i now have 30 items already that i am running to catch up with
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 08:49:09 [item 19186]
Not sure what you mean by using public info to sequence that. What is public?
seth@fbi 2015-12-15 08:56:48 [item 19186]
public info is info that people can see.  for example you can see who likes what comments on FB.   an example of private info is the comments that i click to hide here from myself. 
Yes. But what I mean is what public info are you using to sequence your private reading? All status is “private” here at FBI because it is all browser based, there is no public profile. If you comment, then of course you are doing it in public.

Are you wanting to be able to make all your comments, and edits, and other news related things in private and then make them public later or something?

Si says
Bozo@niche 2015-12-15 09:50:41 [item 19186]
hmmm … complicated thread this …

i was relating you comment …

Getting something off you plate actually (in all realities) has nothing to do with anyone else. And it is the same here. You only have to formulate the path in your mind and the universe will align you with it. If it keeps coming back into your awareness, then it simply means you have not imagined a way out.  

to which i mostly agree. 

thinking out loud here as i type for a moment

thing is thinking privately, with no input and effect from others, is quite different than what is happening now with some of the new features of dev.   what you described in your comment above, me thinks applies to thinking privately with no input and effect from others in the now.    what is public info is (to others) your effect on them … and visa versa, what they make public is their effect on your thinking … assuming that you are thinking together with them. 

i think that is all i am saying … nothing really more … and no i was not proposing any specific change to the new fastblogit behavior as a result of those (facts). 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-15 10:00:33 [item 19186]
Well I would propose it. It’s something I have often wanted at any social site. The ability to spend some time going over my feed at the beginning or end of the day, add comments, read more, change things, look at all the things from the perspective of my whole session (like a tag room), and then → publish it!

It would take less time because then I wouldn’t get caught up responding to others commenting on my new comments. It would allow me to respond to everything in a cohesive way … and back out things I realize that were later solved or addressed. In total, it would reduce my time spent and improve the quality of what I write. For an intended “blog site” that actually seems a must. Even Wordpress has the publish concept. Here the publish concept could be more interactive. It would improve the quality of what people do write and make what they write more thoughtful and less reactive.
Faust@niche 2015-12-15 10:35:24 [item 19186]
yes that might be something indeed !   it would be a personal preference, though.  somtimes i would like to do it that way, other times i may want to interact more in real time.  strange that we can even play with that kind of stuff now.
Yes of course. It would be a mode. Session mode or something, that you could switch on and off. All it would require would be a marking field in the database and a tag-like room to display the stuff that is marked so you could work with it in batch. Publish would just be removing the mark. Not very complicated.

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