Tag wars are fun and good play ... and are now "opt in" ... or actually "opt out".

As we discussed, only those in a group should be able to add and remove the “back room” tag. So this is now a feature. Just as this makes sense for the back room of a group, it also makes sense that a group (or entity) should be able to say “enough is enough” and opt out of further tag changes to an item. But of course, to honor Seth’s idea of infinitely flexible tagging in the universe, his mind, this should be an opt in feature only, not the default.

So here is the feature as it works now.

  1. Add the “mine” tag to any post in your group and you prevent those outside your group from changing tags on it.
  2. Only group members can add and remove the “mine” tag.
  3. This is honored by all tagging and tag editing features. If you try and add a “back room” or “mine” tag and you are not in the group then the action is ignored. No message, just ignored. Maybe someday a message when it can be Ajax’d.
  4. The censor group still can censor (make a post private), but not change “mine” or “back room” tags.
Let’s see how this goes. Hopefully it doesn’t tax Seth if he get’s mine’d off of something because he is being a tag hipster. I think it will cause people to be more thoughtful in their tagging so that they don’t draw the wrath of the author and get mine’d. I think Seth would like people to be more thoughtful in their tagging. I would too!  

And inside a group it is still a fully cooperative space. Everything goes. This feature only helps groups focus and be their own sovereignty if and where they choose. If you want to change tags on an item in another’s group and you can’t, get them to let you in … or, feature coming (someday), fork the item to your space … this is how github works and it makes for a great cooperative community of contribuitors.


  1. new feature
  2. nfeatures
  3. defensive measures
  4. tag war
  5. catalysts
  6. item 19259
  7. tag wars
  8. tag rooms
  9. TagWars


Seth says
seth@fbi 2015-12-19 04:46:30 [item 19259#38063]
When somebody taggs  my item stupidly, i just delete the tag … that takes me all of about a second.  Many times, however, somebody will tag my item making an interesting association to it that i had not myself realized.  It would be cutting off my nose to spite my face, to trade the latter to prevent the former.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 05:55:27 [item 19259#38076]
I am glad you have such wonderful and considerate friends that you can make a statement like this with wholehearted confidence.  
seth@fbi 2015-12-19 06:03:38 [item 19259#38077]
mark somtimes is hostile with his tagging.  but really i can delete just as fast as he can affix. 

that said, if i was in a domain with a whole lot of hostility and negativity and degredation of my effect … i don’t think i could even think there myself … maybe if i just had to be there i would just make all my items private.   so i really don’t know about these defensive measures… if they need to be deployed, then me thinks that domain is already not working … send everybody back to facebook maybe … close the domain down … maybe kick people out …. i don’t know.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 06:12:18 [item 19259#38079]
Okay. Then perhaps “Faster and better blogging for everyone” is not really the tag line of the space. I guess it really is “Faster and better blogging for the few, and the one”.  
seth@fbi 2015-12-19 06:23:16 [item 19259#38080]
isn’t it a matter of what kind of environment … what kind of people … what kind of behavior … we are trying to attract here?

or said differently, i don’t think we want a lot of ass holes and negativity and fighting … and building a lot of weapons for people to use against each other … is, me thinks, going to attract exactly what we do not want.

and yes … i don’t see a single domain where “everyone” comes in and stays like facebook …. like i said in group niche that is not what i want us to be.   but that does not mean that this new thingie can not spread … but it just does not keep collecting more and more … rather it divides and makes new domains.   we need a new word to descibe that.   fastblogit just does not cut it for me anymore.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 06:36:51 [item 19259#38082]
Even Facebook started with that lofty goal. In 2005 they had nearly the same security model you have … even with “networks” of friends in mostly wide open groups (not sure if you were with them in the beginning when it was like that). Over time, they had to adapt to the statistical variance of the types of real people. (See Rudolf Steiner’s The Temperances) . You may not want to be another Facebook and that is a good goal. At the same time, Facebook has, by trial and error, found a sweet spot in balance between the needs of the many, and the needs of the few, that actually works and is real world tested and proved for billions of people. Just saying.
seth@fbi 2015-12-19 07:03:40 [item 19259#38086]
well yes certainly using Facebook’s experience is essential yes.   incidentally they have no such weapon as you are proposing here … rather they have the weapon that i proposed … if a person has absolutely unacceptable behavior, you simply kick them out of the domain or group.  

but you seem to have been oblivious to the fact that Facebook’s goal was to grow bigger and bigger as a single site and heard  more and more people in because its business model was advertising.  

our model is different … we make our money by spreading. 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 07:17:44 [item 19259#38088]
Facebook, by default, and as a feature, allows you to prevent anyone in the world from changing things in a group. That’s all this is doing too. It’s allowing a group to be their own thing if the world is not being cooperative to that. This way the whole world can still watch the group, but not participate in tagging stuff in the group if the group doesn’t want that type of interaction with the whole world. This is a nice way to meld your difference from Facebook with some kind of autonomy between a group and the rest of the world. Groups will probably often want to have a focus in what their members are doing and organize their own tags accordingly … or not, they have the choice and not is the default.
seth@fbi 2015-12-19 07:25:09 [item 19259#38090]
ok i see what you are saying.

lots of the things that work well for small groups, will not work quite so well in larger groups …  same goes for domains.   me, i cannot predicts all of this in advance and facebook zigged where i probably will want to zag.   i said that to say … scaling is going to be fun.
choy 2015-12-19 08:55:53 [item 19259#38132]
Like the news works ok here for 3 people almost. Still hard to follow. WIth a few million it will be absurd.Same goes for the open system without Friends as FB has.  I suspect that back room, private, & mine features may work different upscaling.

Si says
LOL … from above: “or fork the item to your space”

… and now it is SO! Don’t you love LOA?  

(Hummm … need a thought fork too)

Seth says
Making coherant tag room contexts is the same process as creating a language between people so that they can communicate together and share what attracts them together.  It is actively building language.  It is not just in Seth’s mind as you seem to judge above.  But, of course, if others do not cooperate here, then sure, it will be just in my mind here.  But it also exists in the minds of others in the blogisphere who are using tagging to good purposes.  Check out its use on twitter and G+ and Pinterest and see how it actually feels when it is working.   That is apart from !bamtags which are its corruption.

Seth says

Si says
In 3.0 the mine tag has been depreciated and has no effect. In it’s place you simply curate your tags and delete the ones you don’t want there. SeriTD prevents loss of tags to owners as appropriate to the 3 rules. You don’t have to think about it … just put on the tags you want, delete the tags you don’t want, and hide the ones you don’t want others to see. Ta da … you’re done! 

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