[item 19276] or [google SWJS]

About: link does not work unless I put something here for fb urls

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  1. item 19276

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Seth says
mark 2015-12-19 15:58:12 [item 19278#38212]
BTW I am back with my regular Windows 10 computer with plenty of speed & memory.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 16:01:26 [item 19278#38213]
Mark 10.0? Wow! 
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Si says
mark 2015-12-19 16:27:51 [item 19278#38215]
This item does have a bug that causes a click on the about line to yield a missing item.
mark 2015-12-19 16:31:36 [item 19278#38216]
Something like nothing to do here move along.
That’s because /item/19243 does not exist dude. It must have been deleted.

Seth says
the problem with our grabbing the FB titles for our about link probably has more to do with Facebook not reporting a title to us than any thing that we could control.  i think our system is suppose to insert “title not given” when that is the case … but i would need to check the code or experiment.

Seth says
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 17:01:53 [item 19278#38219]
Facebook only ever puts a number and the word “Facebook” in a title. Nothing else. At least not in the browsed site. Are you calling an api or alternate feed?
i have no idea … been year ago when i wrote that shit.

Si says
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 17:01:53 [item 19278#38219]
Facebook only ever puts a number and the word “Facebook” in a title. Nothing else. At least not in the browsed site. Are you calling an api or alternate feed?
Also, I bet Facebook does not allow robots, only real browsers, which requires you to fully spoof the reader code. Yours is not spoofed so it would look like a robot to Facebook.

Seth says
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 17:10:31 [item 19278#38223]
In any case. I did look at your title grabber and it is very simplistic. It would fail at many high tech sites and because it only reads the <title> tag, not the actual meta tag for the title, any dynamic site using dynamic titles could easily return something un-useful to you as a page title. Don’t expect the one there to always work. I would guess it would only give you good info about 65% of the time.

It could easily be improved though. It could browser spoof by passing on your own browser information and could read the meta tags in the page first, then the the first H1 tag, then finally the <title> tag if the others don’t exist. That’s the formula search engines use.  
seth 2015-12-19 17:12:48 [item 19278#38224]
what’s that going to cost me a quarter?
nathan@fbi 2015-12-19 17:23:11 [item 19278#38225]
Actually that’s about right. I have most the of code laying around and would just have to wire it in to your site. Personally I would implement it as a browser side feature so that after the person typed or pasted anything into the url field and then changed focus it would immediately go and get the title and fill it into the form while he is entering his post. That would be easier and more reliable and nicer for the customer too. It would still have to travel through PHP on your server due to cross-domain restrictions, but that’s no big deal, just an ajax echo.
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Si says
mark 2015-12-20 08:20:12 [item 19278#38266]
Return it to the old code it used to work this way.
  • there were 3 lines one could put in the beginning “title area” of an item
    • Your Chosen Title
    • A url from the Internet which might be the subject you were talking about
    • An override title for the url above if you didn’t like it
  • FB & others did not usually have a useful title for that 3rd line of input so it was useful to provide your own like FB post or G+ post etc.
  • This all came out as 2 lines of title for the body of the item.

 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 08:24:11 [item 19278#38268]
Way way too confusing for the average author trying to make a simple fast blog. This needs to be a “Mark only” plugin he can install from the plugin librarygrin

Call it the “Vergo Plugin”.  
mark 2015-12-20 09:05:32 [item 19278#38278]
Or maybe watch it work in OLD CODE! – not confusing!   
Virgo’s never think details are confusing. Have some compassion for the rest of us!

I think you’re a Virgo, right?

Si says
mark 2015-12-20 09:22:34 [item 19278#38285]
I kept using the item as a test case to explore the original. Sorry if it confused somebody. Apparently emoteys are in flux & don’t appear in the RTE anymore except for the master one .   pondering – I liked the question mark one.
Right now I keep getting 30+ items in the news stream which all look alike for me & are confused comments with the items at the bottom .  It is hard from the comments to know what item is being talked about even if one clicks on the comment.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 09:32:40 [item 19278#38289]
I could unfold the second to last comment in the news item, instead of just the root topic and the final comment. That would somewhat solve your issue, but would also “bluk up” the news feed. Request for preference from readers here. 

When you click on a news item, it should take you “right to the exact comment on your screen” scrolled to perfection. That should not be confusing? 
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:52:27 [item 19278#38300]
well i do get confused by what a thread is all about sometimes because the last comment is not being shown and got collapsed … that last comment and yes perhaps the one above it to which it was a response … is what would tell me to go there.

sorry i could write that better … but then if i tried i would just get forked laugh
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Seth says
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:54:53 [item 19278#38302]
as to what didn't work for mark, maybe it would have been better to work in the 19276 room instead of the river or his blog. 
mark@projects 2015-12-20 10:24:29 [item 19278#38313]
Or maybe as an unpaid user I just blog a bug when & where I find it & expect the whizzard to look at and put it where it belongs as a bug like in a bug list.
okay … point taken

Seth says
mark 2015-12-20 08:20:12 [item 19278#38266]
Return it to the old code it used to work this way.
  • there were 3 lines one could put in the beginning “title area” of an item
    • Your Chosen Title
    • A url from the Internet which might be the subject you were talking about
    • An override title for the url above if you didn’t like it
  • FB & others did not usually have a useful title for that 3rd line of input so it was useful to provide your own like FB post or G+ post etc.
  • This all came out as 2 lines of title for the body of the item.

 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 08:24:11 [item 19278#38268]
Way way too confusing for the average author trying to make a simple fast blog. This needs to be a “Mark only” plugin he can install from the plugin librarygrin

Call it the “Vergo Plugin”.  
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:11:51 [item 19278#38280]
wizzard well the way mark described it is the way it works now at fastblogit.   i see no reason to change it.  so me thinks this thread got confused indecision
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 09:13:52 [item 19278#38282]
Yea, I was wondering about that … because otherwise, it is a really confusing feature! 
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:16:18 [item 19278#38283]
i’ll write it up somewhere as a feature of items themselves.   just as soon as i can get a good place to put it … and a tuit
IamanI@mark 2015-12-20 10:41:50 [item 19278#38316]
Well the About: could be changed since the title should tell a reader what the item, symloop, relation is all about.  Maybe call it an external link. I have always thought that a list of external links in the symloop might be nice.
well this is a concept that started happening on the web … way after cybermind … so, afaik, there is no analog to it in cybermind … and we shouldn't confuse this with that.

when somebody makes an item that talks about another  article (or bookmarks it) they need a place to designate what their item is all about.  That about place and it’s title become part of the  title of the item.   this has been done all over the web, sometimes one way, sometimes another … me, i studied what was already happening in the blogisphere and in RSS feeds and came up with this user interaction.  it is an added (optional) pointer off of an item.  It says that this item is about that other web article.   It works perfectly.  Mark has used it with good advantage … i have used it with good advantage … i have never encountered anyone who was ever confused as to what it meant.

Seth says
mark 2015-12-20 08:20:12 [item 19278#38266]
Return it to the old code it used to work this way.
  • there were 3 lines one could put in the beginning “title area” of an item
    • Your Chosen Title
    • A url from the Internet which might be the subject you were talking about
    • An override title for the url above if you didn’t like it
  • FB & others did not usually have a useful title for that 3rd line of input so it was useful to provide your own like FB post or G+ post etc.
  • This all came out as 2 lines of title for the body of the item.

 
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 08:24:11 [item 19278#38268]
Way way too confusing for the average author trying to make a simple fast blog. This needs to be a “Mark only” plugin he can install from the plugin librarygrin

Call it the “Vergo Plugin”.  
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:11:51 [item 19278#38280]
wizzard well the way mark described it is the way it works now at fastblogit.   i see no reason to change it.  so me thinks this thread got confused indecision
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 09:13:52 [item 19278#38282]
Yea, I was wondering about that … because otherwise, it is a really confusing feature! 
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 09:16:18 [item 19278#38283]
i’ll write it up somewhere as a feature of items themselves.   just as soon as i can get a good place to put it … and a tuit
IamanI@mark 2015-12-20 10:41:50 [item 19278#38316]
Well the About: could be changed since the title should tell a reader what the item, symloop, relation is all about.  Maybe call it an external link. I have always thought that a list of external links in the symloop might be nice.
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 10:47:36 [item 19278#38319]
well this is a concept that started happening on the web … way after cybermind … so, afaik, there is no analog to it in cybermind … and we shouldn't confuse this with that.

when sombody comments on a website and what they are talking about is that particular article,  that article should be shown … it is really part of the title of the item.   this has been done all over the web, sometimes one way, somtimes another … me, i just kind of standardized it as an added (optional) pointer off of an item … saying that this item is about that item.   It works perfectly.  Mark has used it with good advantage … i have used it with good advantage … i have never encountered anyone who was ever confused as to what it meant.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 10:56:11 [item 19278#38320]
I don’t think I was confused. But I much prefer Facebook and other sites way of just reading links you type in to the body and grabbing and embedding a synopsis. Having to do that in separate input boxes and only getting the title snagged is not very interesting to me. For that I would always just put the link in the page. At the very least, if the link is put in the page, then it should offer to show the title as the display text for the link.
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 11:08:22 [item 19278#38322]
well i see what you are saying there.   but this is not that.   this actually is semantic information, meta information, about the item.  in the day of coding that in a feed (rss or atom) that was needed.  it is still needed today.

now, all of that said, were sombody to want to include a grab of more info from the about line in the content of their post … well all find and good … maybe gadget on rte tools or something.

incidentally how many times do you post on FB and the bloody site grabs the wrong stuff … a continual problem that, for the likes of me.   this way the poster is telling the system exactly what it needs to know to grab whatever for this particular post … and giving the author the ability to monitor and control what is displayed for his audience.
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 11:12:47 [item 19278#38324]
Maybe twice in 100’s of times? I love how it always seems to represent the site well, often better than I would have. Odd that you have problems. But unlike FB, if it were put into the articles here, it could be edited due the Rich Text Editor so you could fix it to your liking after getting something great to start with. FB can’t do that because they don’t have an RTE.
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 12:08:17 [item 19278#38351]
happens to me all the time. 

i also love heart how facebook does that … and we can do something lke that here too. 

but i think you are being oblivious to the value of the semantic information which the  about URL is providing for weaving the web.  oh sure gremlins can delve into the body of a item and see if they can gleen what it is about … and do that for modern pages … and old pages … and everyting in between.  
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 12:15:01 [item 19278#38352]
I’m all for meta info in the pages and especially in the page header. There is no reason grabbing into the page can’t also fill in metadata. And personally I would let that and even more meta data be edited, but as a fold-down area that you click on so that it doesn’t take up premium editor panel real estate when you don’t need it … especially when you go back and edit the post, at least then.
seth@fbi 2015-12-20 12:19:20 [item 19278#38354]
i could live with that ...but i don't think it is an improvement.  its just another thing that a person making a new item must know that they can click upon to do what they intend to do.  how do they learn that the first time?
nathan@fbi 2015-12-20 12:23:37 [item 19278#38356]
It can start out open till they click it closed. Then it stays closed unless they click it open each time after that. That’s one way. There are a billion others … including contextual help that shows lots of places while a person is new. Did you notice the glossary feature on the sign in page telling what an open group is if you mouse over it? That’s another way.
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