Guns in America

 

Don’t throw a tool into the mix,
which makes happen more frequently
that which shouldn’t happen at all !!

Bozo Faust

Tags

  1. guns
  2. catalysts
  3. judgement

Comments


Si says
nathan@domain 2016-01-04 07:32:11 [item 19513#40943]
And what of those who signed up for the experience of committing violence? And what of the millions of people who are still attracting the experience of being a victim? Are these people to be banned from this verse? Are these experiences no longer available here?

Someone needs to rewrite the travel brochure for those with an eye on coming here!  
seth 2016-01-04 07:37:13 [item 19513#40945]
Well in this case the boundaries of the universe are dictated by the geographic boundaries of of our country.  Most people come here out of a womb … I don’t know how to rewrite the travel brochures inside wombs … do you?
nathan 2016-01-04 07:42:12 [item 19513#40948]
If you believe the choice is made in the womb, then all is mute. I believe souls spend a relatively long time in the spirit world making the choice to come here, choosing parents, setting up experiences, bonding with parents, guiding them into mating at the correct time for astrological influences, before falling to earth as a physical being … seems that much of that understanding comes from Rudolf Steiner … a huge influence in my beliefs since my Mom used to read his books to me all the time for the first 3 years of my life … but also in exact sync with the teachings of Abraham and Bashar and many others.  
seth 2016-01-04 08:03:44 [item 19513#40958]
Yep, that story leads us into a whole different set of perhaps imagined choices.   Me, i experience only that which i actually do experience.  The world being vast, implies there is much that i do not experience … but there is no way for me to make any choices there.  Can you make a choice about something that will happen in Tai Wan to a person you don’t even know?  Sorry for me, you are talking about a world where i can do nothing at all.  
Yes I can make such a choice. I can imagine it, just did by virtue of my reading your thought … therefore, it exists. Will my imagined happening be the same one I will encounter if I travel to Tai Wan? Maybe, maybe not, there are a lot of verses between being here and getting there and plenty of room for what I arrive at to be different. But that does not invalidate the complete reality and existence of what I imagined … it is a real person and a real place and a real time now, and with the right focus, I can travel there.

Si says
mark 2016-01-04 07:43:22 [item 19513#40949]
By whose judgement? – yours?pondering
nathan 2016-01-04 07:43:52 [item 19513#40950]
What?
mark 2016-01-04 07:47:36 [item 19513#40953]
who determines what should or shouldn’t happen?
nathan 2016-01-04 07:51:28 [item 19513#40954]
You do. Always. No exceptions ever. It’s all your creation. You determine the movement of ever last atom. When you sign up for experiences though, it’s nice to have the cooperation of others who share the vibrational connections of that verse … otherwise you have to create from scratch … imagine everything yourself.  
mark 2016-01-04 07:55:09 [item 19513#40955]
Fine.   The quote in the context of guns seems to say that if I want a gun & you don’t want me to have a gun that there is going to be cognitive dissonance. laughing
nathan 2016-01-04 07:58:42 [item 19513#40956]
Yes. I am just asking? Is this verse shifting? Should it now be advertised as a violence free verse in the travel brochures … and the listings for quantum jumpers? Will we be throwing out those who are already here under the pretense of violence and victim experiences being available?
mark 2016-01-04 08:09:10 [item 19513#40959]
I like Michael Hadley’s meme/metaphor which goes something like (on good & evil or any polarity) – If we put all the good people & evil people in a line & the good people on the left & the bad people on the right & then threw away the bad people on the right the problem would still exist.  Then going again with only half of the population  there would still be people relatively good on the left & relatively bad on the right only not so much as before – so we would have to throw away another half.  etc. If you only want good people that would last until there is just you & I & I know which one I would throw away – don’t you?looking over a brick walllaughing
 
nathan 2016-01-04 08:15:22 [item 19513#40961]
Well in effect, you just proved logically why this is all your creation and it is only you here.  I’ll have to remember that proof, it is a good one for non-believers.

As to the good and evil thought itself, I agree. It is similar to my question … which is about guns and how they are part of the balance advertised here … are we ready to change what is advertised?
mark 2016-01-04 09:08:40 [item 19513#40972]
Not a proof of much more than good & evil are relative. smug Apparently controversy (or a difference of opinion) is allowed here.  I suspect that violence will some day dissipate as the causes which are many dissipate & evolve. Economics, territory, governmental powers vs individuals & egotism seem to be at the top of the list that I can see.  I have seen this brochure for outer space travel, but I haven’t seen the one for quantum jumping “verses”; notwithstanding Burt Goldman’s hypnotic baloon (or?) train or ??
 
nathan 2016-01-04 09:13:02 [item 19513#40973]
Ah … so you design your verse under the “belief creep” model, not the “deliberate creation” model.  
That’s what’s so great about the multiverse, we can each choose our own models and still borrow from each other’s verses to create our own. We do not all have to use the same models.  
mark 2016-01-04 09:16:17 [item 19513#40974]
Yep, we both do have minds!laughing
And we both have verses, the entire expanse of which is our own creation, our own mirror, of our state of being.  

Si says
mark 2016-01-04 07:43:22 [item 19513#40949]
By whose judgement? – yours?pondering
mark 2016-01-04 07:45:44 [item 19513#40951]
This also depends upon your ability to see the whole panorama – things taken in a narrow view can show up as beneficial in the long run.  Human evolution is like that.
mark 2016-01-04 07:46:24 [item 19513#40952]
 
seth 2016-01-04 08:22:40 [item 19513#40963]
yep,  in my judgment it should not be so easy for a person to get the power to zap another person out of our universe.   
nathan 2016-01-04 08:28:58 [item 19513#40965]
It is not at all easy. We have intentionally made it extremely difficult by intentionally forgetting that it is possible. It takes much shifting of beliefs and increase of awareness to get control of your own holodeck. It can take a lifetime (for older people, the younger ones and indigo children are born with most of this knowledge in their awareness). But times are changing … we are entering a new millennium where people will have this awareness … and then plucking someone out will be as simple as changing your thought. It won’t actually pluck them out of their verses, but it will change your experience of them in yours.
seth 2016-01-04 08:37:51 [item 19513#40966]
well you are obviously not speaking for the hoards of killers in our country when you say, “We have intentionally made it extremely difficult by intentionally forgetting that it is possible”, … no, you are speaking for yourself … for they have proven over and over that they have not forgotten how esay it is to get a gun and blow people away.

The rest of your story is truly exciting … but, me, i will  wait to experience it myself … before i take any action with those beliefs in mind. 
nathan 2016-01-04 08:44:36 [item 19513#40967]
You are speaking of removing by physical action, I was speaking of removing by desire and thought. It is true that at some level they are exactly the same. The only difference is that people “beleive” they can remove someone physically and they don’t believe they can simply change their thoughts and have a completely different experience … so they create a physical scenario that allows their thoughts to change.

But this aspect of things is not what I was originally asking. I am simply asking, is this to become a verse where the experience of violence, and the experience of being a victim, are banned? Is this something those who co create here by virtue of their vibrationally connected realities wanting? I am not even judging if that wanting is good or bad, because of course it is neither. I am just noticing how this kind of experience is currently and very clearly on the brochures for this verse as available.
seth 2016-01-04 09:25:13 [item 19513#40978]
Yes indeed, changing by changing beliefs is superlative, where it happens …  less messy than having to actually do things to effect desired change.

And incidentally i know of no way to manifest a universe “where the experience of violence, and the experience of being a victim, are banned” … not in my powers … and so i would be a fool to suggest it.   My suggestion is quite a bit simpler … not so grand … and more direct … and something that we can eventually manifest in this country: make it very hard to have a gun.
mark 2016-01-04 09:33:48 [item 19513#40982]
Wheee ! thumbs upCain & Able problem solved. Beat God to the punch!  The first Seth was the replacement.thumbs upheartlaugh
mark 2016-01-04 09:36:16 [item 19513#40984]
So maybe atoms don’t exist. If you are in the John & there is no toilet-paper it doesn’t exist? NOW notwithstanding?
like

Si says
mark 2016-01-04 09:31:04 [item 19513#40981]
 
9+
Remove
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Wheee ! Cain & Able problem solved. Beat God to the punch! laughing The first Seth was the replacement.
nathan 2016-01-04 09:34:59 [item 19513#40983]
The Cain and Able scenario is not a problem, it is a chosen experience … a fundamental one that teaches our being something very important. Do you know what that is? We all have this experience in some form at some time … it is important to the shaping of our being that we collectivly desire.
mark 2016-01-04 09:38:34 [item 19513#40986]
KEWL, guns are no problem either! smug
So true, so true. Ban such experiences here and there are still infinite places one can go for those experiences. Again, that is why I am asking, is this a change here? I think the brochures for this verse need changing too if so … because they list violence and victimhood as fully and easily available here. 

Si says
mark 2016-01-04 07:43:22 [item 19513#40949]
By whose judgement? – yours?pondering
mark 2016-01-04 07:45:44 [item 19513#40951]
This also depends upon your ability to see the whole panorama – things taken in a narrow view can show up as beneficial in the long run.  Human evolution is like that.
mark 2016-01-04 07:46:24 [item 19513#40952]
 
seth 2016-01-04 08:22:40 [item 19513#40963]
yep,  in my judgment it should not be so easy for a person to get the power to zap another person out of our universe.   
nathan 2016-01-04 08:28:58 [item 19513#40965]
It is not at all easy. We have intentionally made it extremely difficult by intentionally forgetting that it is possible. It takes much shifting of beliefs and increase of awareness to get control of your own holodeck. It can take a lifetime (for older people, the younger ones and indigo children are born with most of this knowledge in their awareness). But times are changing … we are entering a new millennium where people will have this awareness … and then plucking someone out will be as simple as changing your thought. It won’t actually pluck them out of their verses, but it will change your experience of them in yours.
seth 2016-01-04 08:37:51 [item 19513#40966]
well you are obviously not speaking for the hoards of killers in our country when you say, “We have intentionally made it extremely difficult by intentionally forgetting that it is possible”, … no, you are speaking for yourself … for they have proven over and over that they have not forgotten how esay it is to get a gun and blow people away.

The rest of your story is truly exciting … but, me, i will  wait to experience it myself … before i take any action with those beliefs in mind. 
nathan 2016-01-04 08:44:36 [item 19513#40967]
You are speaking of removing by physical action, I was speaking of removing by desire and thought. It is true that at some level they are exactly the same. The only difference is that people “beleive” they can remove someone physically and they don’t believe they can simply change their thoughts and have a completely different experience … so they create a physical scenario that allows their thoughts to change.

But this aspect of things is not what I was originally asking. I am simply asking, is this to become a verse where the experience of violence, and the experience of being a victim, are banned? Is this something those who co create here by virtue of their vibrationally connected realities wanting? I am not even judging if that wanting is good or bad, because of course it is neither. I am just noticing how this kind of experience is currently and very clearly on the brochures for this verse as available.
seth 2016-01-04 09:25:13 [item 19513#40978]
Yes indeed, changing by changing beliefs is superlative, where it happens …  less messy than having to actually do things to effect desired change.

And incidentally i know of no way to manifest a universe “where the experience of violence, and the experience of being a victim, are banned” … not in my powers … and so i would be a fool to suggest it.   My suggestion is quite a bit simpler … not so grand … and more direct … and something that we can eventually manifest in this country: make it very hard to have a gun.
mark 2016-01-04 09:33:48 [item 19513#40982]
Wheee ! thumbs upCain & Able problem solved. Beat God to the punch!  The first Seth was the replacement.thumbs upheartlaugh
seth 2016-01-04 09:40:00 [item 19513#40987]
well in my experience, waiting for somebody else to do something, so i don’t do it myself, never got anything actually done … and that applies to God as well. 

I Don’t know what your “The first Seth was the replacement.thumbs upheartlaugh”, means to you … does not mean anything to me. 
mark 2016-01-04 09:41:11 [item 19513#40988]
He who has ears to hear & eyes to read let him hear & read!thumbs up
mark 2016-01-04 09:46:27 [item 19513#40990]
nathan 2016-01-04 09:47:58 [item 19513#40991]
I asked if you knew what that learning is. You personally. Not if you can regurgitate what someone else thinks about it.  
mark 2016-01-04 09:49:49 [item 19513#40992]
This RS link was for Seth who said it meant nothing to him.yes
like

Mark de LA says
mark 2016-01-04 07:43:22 [item 19513#40949]
By whose judgement? – yours?pondering
nathan 2016-01-04 07:43:52 [item 19513#40950]
What?
mark 2016-01-04 07:47:36 [item 19513#40953]
who determines what should or shouldn’t happen?
nathan 2016-01-04 07:51:28 [item 19513#40954]
You do. Always. No exceptions ever. It’s all your creation. You determine the movement of ever last atom. When you sign up for experiences though, it’s nice to have the cooperation of others who share the vibrational connections of that verse … otherwise you have to create from scratch … imagine everything yourself.  
mark 2016-01-04 07:55:09 [item 19513#40955]
Fine.   The quote in the context of guns seems to say that if I want a gun & you don’t want me to have a gun that there is going to be cognitive dissonance. laughing
nathan 2016-01-04 07:58:42 [item 19513#40956]
Yes. I am just asking? Is this verse shifting? Should it now be advertised as a violence free verse in the travel brochures … and the listings for quantum jumpers? Will we be throwing out those who are already here under the pretense of violence and victim experiences being available?
mark 2016-01-04 08:09:10 [item 19513#40959]
I like Michael Hadley’s meme/metaphor which goes something like (on good & evil or any polarity) – If we put all the good people & evil people in a line & the good people on the left & the bad people on the right & then threw away the bad people on the right the problem would still exist.  Then going again with only half of the population  there would still be people relatively good on the left & relatively bad on the right only not so much as before – so we would have to throw away another half.  etc. If you only want good people that would last until there is just you & I & I know which one I would throw away – don’t you?looking over a brick walllaughing
 
nathan 2016-01-04 08:15:22 [item 19513#40961]
Well in effect, you just proved logically why this is all your creation and it is only you here.  I’ll have to remember that proof, it is a good one for non-believers.

As to the good and evil thought itself, I agree. It is similar to my question … which is about guns and how they are part of the balance advertised here … are we ready to change what is advertised?
mark 2016-01-04 09:08:40 [item 19513#40972]
Not a proof of much more than good & evil are relative. smug Apparently controversy (or a difference of opinion) is allowed here.  I suspect that violence will some day dissipate as the causes which are many dissipate & evolve. Economics, territory, governmental powers vs individuals & egotism seem to be at the top of the list that I can see.  I have seen this brochure for outer space travel, but I haven’t seen the one for quantum jumping “verses”; notwithstanding Burt Goldman’s hypnotic baloon (or?) train or ??
 
nathan 2016-01-04 09:13:02 [item 19513#40973]
Ah … so you design your verse under the “belief creep” model, not the “deliberate creation” model.  
That’s what’s so great about the multiverse, we can each choose our own models and still borrow from each other’s verses to create our own. We do not all have to use the same models.  
mark 2016-01-04 09:16:17 [item 19513#40974]
Yep, we both do have minds!laughing
mark 2016-01-04 09:21:10 [item 19513#40976]
I don’t have the distinction “belief creep” – you must since you mentioned it; maybe called it into being in your verse, eh? looking over a brick wall – can’t imagine what it is & won’t.
nathan 2016-01-04 09:27:08 [item 19513#40979]
This is belief creep “I suspect that violence will some day dissipate as the causes which are many dissipate & evolve.”

It’s a name for using the model that change in your verse occurs by a slow (hence creeping) process of shifting beliefs. In this model, you tie the changes in these beliefs to vague things like “external causes” and “evolution”. What actually happens is beliefs change, hence thoughts change, and the reality experience mirrors the change. The model you utilize for that process is well tagged as “belief creep”. There are many other models to experience change … some nearly instant. The “magic model” often used in olden times was a more instant model for changing beliefs.
ponderinglaughing My tomato plant does not all of a sudden plant itself & drop tomatoes – it grows (evolves) – most things in Nature do that. The opposite also happens – there are 4 seasons. Some plants die. Some humans are born & die. Goethe & Rudolf Steiner were both into such.

Seth says
mark 2016-01-04 09:25:01 [item 19513#40977]
Poets & song writers have verses & entire songs & operas etc. Some they share with others & some only exist in their own minds.
nathan 2016-01-04 09:30:46 [item 19513#40980]
Everything exists only in one’s own experience. There is nothing else. That is you, your experience.
seth 2016-01-04 09:55:02 [item 19513#40996]
your first sentence doth not imply you conclusion to me.   i can not think those two sentences and hear the ring of truth.  However these i can ...

Everything that i experience exists in my own experience.
What exists outside of my experience, i do not know.

Or said differently,  “In the universe in which my experience is a part of what happens, there is also a part called “otherness”, which i do not experience.”

nathan 2016-01-04 12:31:48 [item 19513#41010]
As we have talked about before. Otherness is only a figment of your imagination. It’s just something you think must be there “because”, maybe because you’ve always thought so, or maybe because if it isn’t you think you would be very lonely or loose something you hold dear. There is no proof of otherness … there is only knowing what you experience.
that thought might ring truer, perhaps even to you,  were you to express it in the first person. 

me, i have zillions of actual experiences that imply to me that i do not experience everything that is happening. 

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