Worth Repeating

About: P.2623 Tai Shu

 If both are put on a circle, which is first, the force of Horus or that of Harpocrates?  Solving a riddle, or to unravel a tangled knot can be a game & fun but may indeed be useful giving us a string to bind something else.
¶(2466)
LOGIC deals with the laws of thought, reasoning & language;  PHYSICS deals with the Things about which we think, reason & speak;  to avoid confusion we must have a 1-1 correspondence between things & their names. 

Tags

  1. things
  2. names
  3. logic
  4. excluded middle

Comments


Mark de LA says
dA 2016-01-21 05:29:02 [item 19724#43184]

to avoid confusion we must have a 1-1 correspondence between things & their names. 

That is a premise put forward by people who only utilized a small part of the natural resources a normal human being has access to. It’s an ego construct and all it serves is to create fertile ground for right and wrong games. Humans accessing the full wealth of their being in any moment are rarely confused … they are in synchronous harmony with their entire experience. And when they are confused it is an indicator that they are inside the process of learning something new, not necessarily failing to communicate.

The above statement is only true for active ego bodies in search of food to feed upon. The symbolism of the mind and the emotions is far more vast and flexible than it would be to require a digital relationship on word tags.
Mark 2016-01-21 07:26:10 [item 19724#43185]
Somebody has problem with Ego.  Could be the guy with the big one in the room. Nothing about tags in my statement. 
dA 2016-01-21 07:28:28 [item 19724#43187]
You don’t follow Seth’s theory about words being tags?
Mark 2016-01-21 07:32:05 [item 19724#43189]
not really – he confuses the cyberWorld with the World outside machines & computers. 
dA 2016-01-21 07:37:44 [item 19724#43191]
Well I agree when he says words are tags. I just don’t use a word and tagging based memory system. There are many forms of memory, kinesthetic for instance, which you and I learned about in NLP together, and I used to obtain a perfect sky dive my first try. My usual memory of things is more based on contrast between light and dark geometrically to my body coupled with emotional mood … not word tags. How much light is coming in a window and from what direction is part of how I remember any concept or thing.
Mark 2016-01-21 07:50:33 [item 19724#43192]
Yep – basic Pavlovian anchoring – science obtained by studying dogs. Frankly I don’t call that memory in any general sense. My memory comes in pictures & sounds & qualia to which I may or not clothe in normal language in my internal visual Vi (no sub)  or Va . Kinesthetic memory (muscle memory tec) I use mostly for playing raquetball & games & basic tasks around the house & elsewhere (like driving).  Am working more these days with PR’s Zen Body-Being stuff & the Tai Chi aspect. Even the basics help heal back aches etc. 
What is interesting here is that the old Occult rituals are designed to bring the kinesthetic in with the other representational systems (auditory, visual etc) for focus & purpose & mischief. wink

Holmes says
seth 2016-01-21 08:13:20 [item 19724#43200]
wow … i am not sure that this particular type of threaded dialogue is totally working for a 3 way rapid interchange.
dA 2016-01-21 08:15:56 [item 19724#43203]
It’s not. I have been saying that for quite a while. See IMHO what's far more a nuisance than titles in news and the like is FORKING! … but you commented there that you liked the game of forking.
seth 2016-01-21 08:28:56 [item 19724#43208]
it’s not only the forking … but ideas get lost in the threads which go beyond them driven only by the last person to replay.   maybe a full threaded dialogue like what happens at http://thoughts.com works best.  if it must be a tree.  what really should happen is people select out single topics for focus and make new thoughts.    For example Mark’s Möbius transformation totally needs it’s own node … there is some interesting parallels there to GW’s projective geometry … who knows, maybe even your multi-verses.   I guess the best we can do is to realize that the dialogue is to diverse for a single last wins threading and adapt. 
 
Yes. The full tree is not necessarily better either. That’s what we mastered at floodles and it worked for some things, but stuff still got lost too easily for general dialog.

I would want deliberate forking which could be done by either party at any node. Then when the conversation naturally moves off topic any involved person can cause it to fork off into a different branch of the main thought, or start a new thought, as desired, and keep the structure above and below intact for the branches. Of course, atomized streams would be required to keep that in sync for everyone’s browser.

Seth says
lost up there in the tangel was one of d’A statements that i need to look at.   something about “communication is not thinking”. 

but I’m feeling that they are both parts of the same process.   they seem different aspects of the same process.  the one is usually considered to be private … it only happening inside one being.   the other is that same thing happening among several beings.  that is how i experience thinking and communicating.

how is it different by you?

Seth says
seth 2016-01-21 08:41:45 [item 19724#43213]
lost up there in tangel was one of d’A statements that i need to look at.   something about “communication is not thinking”. 

but I’m feeling that they are all parts of the same process.   they seem different aspects of the same process.  the one is usually considered to be private … it only happening inside one being.   the other is that same thing happening among several beings.  that is how i experience thinking and communicating.

how is it different by you?
dA 2016-01-21 08:43:50 [item 19724#43215]
I didn’t relate that communication is not thinking, and wouldn’t have. Must of been how you read something else.

okay.   so then do you agree with me that both are different aspects of the same process … as i wrote above?

Mark de LA says
Mark 2016-01-21 07:28:05 [item 19724#43186]
If you had thought about it, you probably recognize that it boils down to focus & knowing what you are talking about instead the munge of mind qualia  that passes for thinking or feeling. 
dA 2016-01-21 07:33:00 [item 19724#43190]
All thinking is valid and valuable. Different ways of thinking produce different experiences. Someone else’s experience may not be your choice, but it is entirely relevant for them because that is the experience they are having. Your experience is what is relevant for you. Communication is independent of thinking. It is a process of vibrational matching. Logical systems are not the only way to communicate.
Mark 2016-01-21 07:52:42 [item 19724#43193]

WOW! To sum it up : Everybody is different loving it

dA 2016-01-21 07:54:19 [item 19724#43194]
Not only that, but everyone’s verse is different and unique.
seth 2016-01-21 08:07:32 [item 19724#43197]
like
c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek

Mark de LA says
seth 2016-01-21 08:00:06 [item 19724#43195]
Well fact is, in this multi-person situation,  anybody can name a thing whatever works for them … so there is no 1-1 correspondence between a thing and a name.  And yes that can be confusing.  Especially if we don’t realize it  is happening.  As we focus (logically or otherwise), individually or collectively, we can increase the correspondence between name and thing.  Then as that correspondence increases we can deal only with the names and forget the things themselves … not necessarily a good idea laugh.
Mark 2016-01-21 08:11:53 [item 19724#43199]
Yep, real communication is a bitch. As our Möbius Souls get better at the Golden Rule more communication could happen.  Right now the facebook trend seems to go opposite .. me .. me .. me .. look at me. I didn’t know until I looked in Wikipedia that there is a mathematical thingy called Mõbius Transformation smug even related to projective geometry. 
dA 2016-01-21 08:13:35 [item 19724#43201]
Real communication is not a bitch for me at all. It’s a joy.
Mark 2016-01-21 08:17:00 [item 19724#43204]
Ask someone else about that who doesn’t already know you. One point-of-view is limited.laugh
dA 2016-01-21 08:19:13 [item 19724#43205]
One point of view is, that’s all.
Mark 2016-01-21 08:25:00 [item 19724#43207]
This could mean anything – close to solipsism – or maybe mixing up disparate universes – who knows? Here is something that could help from the NLP world . indecision
dA 2016-01-21 08:42:08 [item 19724#43214]
The meaning is the communication you get, no other. You don’t need to rework it into what you think it should be by cross referencing or defining it. Just take it as it is … soon you will develop a habit of useful communication..
So if I get agenda & dogma back it is my fault not yours? … while you get “he’s not seeing it correctly in my universe” ? laughing

Mark de LA says
seth 2016-01-21 08:13:20 [item 19724#43200]
wow … i am not sure that this particular type of threaded dialogue is totally working for a 3 way rapid interchange.
dA 2016-01-21 08:15:56 [item 19724#43203]
It’s not. I have been saying that for quite a while. See IMHO what's far more a nuisance than titles in news and the like is FORKING! … but you commented there that you liked the game of forking.
seth 2016-01-21 08:28:56 [item 19724#43208]
it’s not only the forking … but ideas get lost in the threads which go beyond them driven only by the last person to replay.   maybe a full threaded dialogue like what happens at http://thoughts.com works best.  if it must be a tree.  what really should happen is people select out single topics for focus and make new thoughts.    For example Mark’s Möbius transformation totally needs it’s own node … there is some interesting parallels there to GW’s projective geometry … who knows, maybe even your multi-verses.   I guess the best we can do is to realize that the dialogue is to diverse for a single last wins threading and adapt. 
 
Mark 2016-01-21 08:33:07 [item 19724#43209]
Not surprising since real-life bundles of people at a party go all over the place when they talk. Same for politics .
Mark 2016-01-21 08:37:47 [item 19724#43211]
If the fbi2½ database gets huge a general search is not likely to be quick.  If good tagging is achieved doing directl to an item is likely to be faster.
dA 2016-01-21 08:39:39 [item 19724#43212]
It has a “huge and general search” already … and it is lightning fast. Have you used the search room at all?
Mark 2016-01-21 08:59:33 [item 19724#43225]
like
Still would like a search that could find all items in group choy which have the form (K-L,Y-F)  where K & Y are static (always in the positions they are in & the same values)  and the L or F can be any of 12 (letters for zodiac entities) . yes

Seth says
Sseth 2016-01-21 08:50:04 [item 19724#43219]
i seem to have lost the ability to delete my own comment threads.   the trash can dissapeared on them.  i frequently keep editing untill i am forked … then i will delete the last (usually minscule edit) and go with the others response.   but suddenly the trash can dissapeared.   bug? or is it new feature … or just Tigger fucking with me laugh
dA 2016-01-21 08:51:58 [item 19724#43220]
Should be in the dropdown. Is it not there or did you not notice the dropdown?
seth 2016-01-21 08:54:56 [item 19724#43222]
well in the case pictured below it is not in the dropdown …

dA 2016-01-21 08:58:47 [item 19724#43224]
Yes, and you don’t seem properly logged in either. Your name is not a link (blue color). Try signing out and back in. I changed some things yesterday that might need that.
seth 2016-01-21 09:09:44 [item 19724#43228]
well most of my names in this dialogue are linked but that one is not.  yet i have been using this very same firefox tab for all of my writing here.   go figure. 
dA 2016-01-21 09:17:29 [item 19724#43230]
That’s exactly why I created the [title: code grep], so I could “go figure” And it’s helping.
like

Seth says
or maby it was because i commented in the river like here.

Holmes says
seth 2016-01-21 09:23:31 [item 19724#43237]
(10 seconds to get my full RTE window in FF @ 9:22 – and after installing El Capitan and emiminating MacHelper which was touted as causeing problems)

anyway this is testing single commenting after comming from the news.
None of that you mention would have had any effect on the malware that we know exists.

Mark de LA says
Sseth 2016-01-21 08:50:04 [item 19724#43219]
i seem to have lost the ability to delete my own comment threads.   the trash can dissapeared on them.  i frequently keep editing untill i am forked … then i will delete the last (usually minscule edit) and go with the others response.   but suddenly the trash can dissapeared.   bug? or is it new feature … or just Tigger fucking with me laugh
dA 2016-01-21 08:51:58 [item 19724#43220]
Should be in the dropdown. Is it not there or did you not notice the dropdown?
dA 2016-01-21 08:57:28 [item 19724#43223]
I do. But I don’t know if you would call it that or not the way I think about it.

Your physical experience is your creation by your thoughts. What is normally considered communication is with another. Others are in their own creations and the connection between their creation and ours is vibrational. We mirror that “communication connection” in our experience via our thoughts creating our experience. So yes, they are all part of the same process.
seth 2016-01-21 09:06:03 [item 19724#43227]
Well that model hangs together for me.

Except i don’t know what you mean by, “We mirror that “communication connection” in our experience via our thoughts creating our experience. “.  

My experience is that sometimes we “mirror”, projecting our own creations  onto others communications … and hopefully many times not. 
Mark 2016-01-21 09:19:41 [item 19724#43234]
I call it a Möbius Soul.  I know many who open their mouths & communicate before thinking & even interrupting while I am still speaking. Such used to confuse me when I first went to school. Not anymore.  An Ego does what it has to do to survive. 
seth 2016-01-21 09:29:36 [item 19724#43241]
well i noticed your new term “Mobius Soul” going by … interesting.   i’m just a little be apprehensive of taking what i view as an “abberation” and buring it into the perdicament as a “feature” cheeky
Was just an amusing metaphor to capture the idea of following the mobius strip all around and ending up with an inside-out view from the other side.  Nothing burned in.laughing (unless you didn’t notice it) pondering One of Michael Hadley’s exercises was saying the 2nd thing that occurred to you to say in a conversation. Another one was to take & argue the other side. 

Seth says
dA 2016-01-21 09:23:41 [item 19724#43238]
But the nice thing is that for the new dropdown the code is all isolated to one place, permissions and everything. Gonna make it much easier to figure out.
dA 2016-01-21 09:34:56 [item 19724#43245]
It tries to tag your comments with your identity group. If that is not set, which it must not have been because of the non linked name, then it can’t tag the thought with a group representing who you are … so you would not be able to delete it. This is left over from group identity logic. The comment table has no way to represent a unified identity at this time other than by the identity group for a user, which is allowed to be null if desired.
ok … so the only mystery is why i lost my “identity group” on that one comment. 

Holmes says
seth 2016-01-21 09:19:25 [item 19724#43232]
the only thing different is that comment was just my single comment … like this one here.
dA 2016-01-21 09:21:53 [item 19724#43236]
Okay. Well it is in group choy, and we don’t have permissions there. So it probably has to do with that and how the muti-group permissions got propagated.
seth 2016-01-21 09:24:35 [item 19724#43239]
i’m thinking tha one case is an oddity … has not happened again.
Mark 2016-01-21 09:30:24 [item 19724#43242]
what is in group choy ?  Earlier I did a general search for the string (Y-L  & strange shit happened .. maybe that was it.
dA 2016-01-21 09:40:56 [item 19724#43248]
Though nothing bad should happen. (Y-L is not a valid search term. Parentesis in searchs have meaning to the search and must be balanced. Also, there is no word there with at least 3 characters. All of this is well documented in the search doc and I have explianed it to you directly several times in comments as well.
Mark 2016-01-21 09:43:51 [item 19724#43251]
Yeah, I know – just testing the resilience of the search dialogue box.laughing I presume that at this time there is no way to find such a string in the database even though maybe regex or grep probably could. 
Not in bodies. You can in titles. Body search are natural language only … that’s what makes them lightning fast due to the natural indexes. A straight search in bodies would be slow and resource intensive. Not something I want to make available to everyone. Natural language searches have a low impact on the system.

Seth says
seth 2016-01-21 08:13:20 [item 19724#43200]
wow … i am not sure that this particular type of threaded dialogue is totally working for a 3 way rapid interchange.
dA 2016-01-21 08:15:56 [item 19724#43203]
It’s not. I have been saying that for quite a while. See IMHO what's far more a nuisance than titles in news and the like is FORKING! … but you commented there that you liked the game of forking.
Mark 2016-01-21 08:20:14 [item 19724#43206]
Both the news & the river are confusing to follow to the right place to put one’s comments. Then too that is why it is nice to have the pile of words all in one group – at least for an interchange.  pondering I wonder what 10 people at once would look like laughing
seth 2016-01-21 09:57:27 [item 19724#43256]
when i follow a comment from news … i find myself (almost always) going to the top to see what the topic is suppose to be about … or even what group it is in.   i think that showing the group in the news feed would improve that situation.  then too poeple being aware of the intention of each node, and interpreting a comment there in the light of that purpose.  not necessarily a easy thing to do.  were there a lot of people here, that situation will get worse.
dA 2016-01-21 10:00:10 [item 19724#43258]
Yes. Group would be okay because it is stored in the comment. Topic is not because all the table joins I have tried so far that could get it drastically increase the query time and load down the system too much.
like

Mark de LA says
dA 2016-01-21 09:57:49 [item 19724#43257]
… and natural language search is what most people normally want. Looking up weird characters in small words would be more useful in a technical database, not a blog or thought base.
seth 2016-01-21 10:01:17 [item 19724#43259]
i agree.


incidentally no trash can on your comment … as should be yes
Mark 2016-01-21 10:04:52 [item 19724#43261]
It was hard to find the context item or comment for this one (weird characters ...) from the news. pondering
Maybe I could do a grep on the feed.  QA sometimes does that to search big piles of error messages & output from large systems. Maybe there is a way 4me to get the feed from group choy

Holmes says
Not sure what “news” has to do with “finding a term” … but I put “weird characters” into the full search and these comments were right at the top of the comments results section.

Seth says
seth 2016-01-21 09:32:16 [item 19724#43243]
incidentally there is a Bug: bug here.   This is in group choy to which both me and nathan should be foreigners.  Hence we certainly should not be permitted to delete any comments made by Mark.  Yet the trash can appears on his comments to us … or at least to me.
dA 2016-01-21 09:38:10 [item 19724#43246]
No me. Is choy bold in your go to group dialog? It has been hard to get choy out of every single browser instance becase they were caching the group’s.
seth 2016-01-21 09:41:39 [item 19724#43249]
no, choy is not blold in my group dialogue. 
dA 2016-01-21 09:42:45 [item 19724#43250]
Okay. Well I can’t delete marks comments. Only my own, unless of course I thread it back to me.
Mark 2016-01-21 09:47:25 [item 19724#43252]
Do you folks need me to delete some comments in group choy ????
seth 2016-01-21 09:49:58 [item 19724#43253]
i don’t think so … using them for testing.   we can also delete your comments here … that is the bug i am reporting.
dA 2016-01-21 09:52:42 [item 19724#43254]
Not we. I can’t at all.
seth 2016-01-21 10:08:14 [item 19724#43264]
well shomething changed … i had trash cans on mark’s and your comments … and now i do not.
dA 2016-01-21 10:09:58 [item 19724#43265]
Okay. I didn’t change any code. I guess the self healing is just working better now.
well a momentary shift in identity … but i showed pictures … t’was not a lie … oh well … wait till it happens again frown

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