News flash!

The very first full thinking.domain was born at moments ago!

It ain’t much and is kind of ugly and has lots of work yet to do before all the initial screens and system really make a new domain a valuable thing. But it “happend”, full and complete and automated as an outside install from bitbucket, not a file copy or a subdomain install. It’s a real autonomous entity born out of the cloud.

You heard it first here, proliferate!


Holmes says
p.s. You can play there, but it will be reinstalled often as work progresses. Don’t rely on it being there or what you put there in any future moment.

Seth says
surprise omg … omg … heartheart ...

Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-02-26 10:49:53 [item 20161#46911]
Why isn’t it just a feeling domain instead of a thinking domain? Seems like that would be more appropriate.
pondering … just saying .
Poe of group da 2016-02-26 10:51:38 [item 20161#46912]
I am not completely sure it is not. Are you? 
MR of group mark 2016-02-26 10:56:19 [item 20161#46914]
Whichever it you are talking about “or not” must certainly apply yes
Same thing you are, of course.

Holmes says
Moving along most excellently!

I looked into logging one in directly after the install, as you suggested. I discovered all the reasons other installers, like wordpress, don’t do that either. It is a huge security risk. Logging in as administrator especially, should always be a deliberate act, not automatic, or there are many scenarios where accidental administrator login can compromise the system. Such as when someone else is doing the install for you and stops at the end … then the browser is left logged in as administrator without anyone realizing it.

The only thing left is dealing with the initial name for group 2. I am not happy with any of the available ways, such as trying to guess what part of the domain name someone would actually want to use, and having the person try and figure that out during the install screen where they don’t really understand what is being asked. Really, there should be another mandatory process of renaming and editing things after initially logging in … or the system is left in a funky state.

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 05:47:10 [item 20161#47003]
For example. does not represent our td well. I would name it Play Nexus Boogies.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 05:51:11 [item 20161#47004]
why not make a thought, that the admin must when she initially signs in,  which explains what group 2 is and asks her to  name it?
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 05:55:19 [item 20161#47005]
Things like that is what I am leaning toward. That would be one way to handle that particular thing. There are other things too though. The sign in screen has site related info on it that needs editing, and so do the welcome thoughts and headers. There are several places where a person needs to put some initial attention when opening a domain. I have not figured out the easiest and most comprehensive way to do all of that at once yet. Perhaps like you suggest, but a controlled wizard that leads you though all such places.

Or perhaps one thought that has a list of TODO items on it that you need to take care of after creating the domain and links to them.


Holmes says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 05:59:57 [item 20161#47007]
yeah a “setup wizzard” could be a forced train of thought … some way to force one thought to another one.   seems like we need that feature anyway.  could even be a tree … with ways to get out of the tree … and knowledge of how to resume.
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:01:41 [item 20161#47008]
Yes. Wizards would be good things. But probably for fbi3. Don’t really want to hold up release of dot 2 domains for such an extensive feature. I am leaning toward simply dumping them on a TODO list upon initial login for dot 2.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 06:04:05 [item 20161#47009]
well yeah, as you know i am keen to open … also put a wordpress in

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:09:30 [item 20161#47011]
These initial domains will be ours obviously. But it is time to start thinking about and planning the Monetized proliferation path. Not only the business model, but more importantly, to me, how the software will be sold and protected from being pirated. There are gazillions of models for that these days.

Though, the simple model we used for clickshop’s was really great, and I have never actually seen it’s like duplicated. An encrypted key that is generated to match the domain name and the software only runs when that key is installed and running at that domain.
well of course if we lease hosted td domains at inmotion, then we don’t need to worry about protection keys and all of that.  and the hosting gives us probably our biggest revenue stream.   Perusing various vertical markets, will be a faster and more direct entry.   it will also be proof of concept and raise the price of what we can lease the software for to other self hosted enterprises.

membership organizations is the first vertical market that i have been considering.   thing about that one is there arecharatable organizations that might support the funding … why? … well just so they can support the organizations that they are already funding. 

Holmes says
And many many people already have host sites that they are committed to and paying for. They would not want to relearn some other host software package, like here at inmotion which kind of sucks as hosts go, and pay for it too, when they already have a viable site to put it at.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 06:28:45 [item 20161#47016]
also … even with self hosts … i think leasing is better than purchace.  otherwise we would need to set the price of purchace too high. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:33:00 [item 20161#47018]
Yes. That is the more common model. Not only for that reason, but also because it forms and maintains a relationship with the customer that continues over time, which is good for both upgrading and fixing bugs and also for free advertising to an already proven demographic.

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:19:29 [item 20161#47013]
I am not so happy with that model. It is more expensive for people who just want a simple thinking domain. They could easily spin one up on Heroku for free and only need to lease or buy the TD software. Why restrict them? That seems to really choke down the possible revenue streams.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 06:25:40 [item 20161#47015]
well there is no reason not to have both.   but don’t forget everyone is not a geek who can quite so easily instll software and run it.   we want to be able to reach down into a larger pool of people who want their own forum … want there own control … but have no idea how to even find or install software.  most of our customers will not be computer geeks.
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:29:27 [item 20161#47017]
I agree most customers are not computer geeks. But then millions of “not computer geeks” are running sites with software that only computer geeks can install.

People who want to run any kind of site simply higher someone to install it for them. I do that service for people myself.

That is the much bigger pool of people to draw from. Those who just higher a geek. The ones who want to do it themselves, but don’t know how, go to, or wix, or weebly etc … and yes, there is a small market there … but I think it is small compared to the rest.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 06:36:33 [item 20161#47019]
lol .. yeah they hire us … we give them a turnkey operation.  

look there is going to be a lot of us feeling our way into the market.  hard to come up with just one way to do it and lock ourself in … and then find that it does not sell … or does not sell enought to sustain the enterprise.    fact is that we can leas td domains right now … we already have enough to start attracting customers.    sure, provide the alternative path.   put the path up and see how many people are attracted to it.   but that does not need to be the next big delay. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:42:50 [item 20161#47021]
The only delay is in choosing and implementing a protection model. It is not the software. I have designed the install process generically. It is not dependent on inmotion. It will work at any site that has PHP and mysql … which is over 95% of all sites. (unfortunately it will only work on a seriously out of date version of PHP due to the use of mysql_ commands instead of mysqli_ commands, but a good sold day of work and I can fix that).

All I am saying is, start looking at existing means of securing software for sale. There are many. Then, as soon as one is chosen, that path is ready to be used and will probably be the largest revenue path once TD’s are known.
sure that hangs together well.

in the meanwhile we can go ahead and open where we get a larger number of potential customers to start thinking ….

and where we start building our sales pitch, and our developers forum.

so finally i can start working on doing this … as is my excitement … rather than playing high horsey games with you and mark all day.

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 06:51:35 [item 20161#47023]
Yes. I am anxious to get out of FastHorseIt too!

Holmes says
BTW … just so you know. It will actually be easier to do an install at Heroku than at inmotion even being admin here at inmotion.

Heroku allows direct “git” installs. Hence you can simply open a Heroku site and provide the git url to the package and the whole thing is installed and running automatically. No manual installer. We will never be able to do that here at inmotion because they lock down a bunch of the processes, like creating a mysql database, to go through CPANEL only. I have looked into changing that here, and alothough it is technically possible with root access, it requires so many changes to the existing structure inmotion has set up that it is not practical.

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:00:48 [item 20161#47027]
If you want to proliferate hosted TD’s, you might consider a heroku paid multihosting account over trying to do it at inmotion.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:05:35 [item 20161#47028]
hmmm …. thought 20168
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:08:27 [item 20161#47029]
Heroku is pay by use, with the light use we are doing here at FBI probably fitting into their free plan (though the must sleep 6 hrs per day is new on the free plan, used to be a data limit instead) … and in any case, only $7/month for a site with probably between 50 and 100 active thinkers.
with the $7/month going to Heroku and not us.   Right now we get the $7/month.  

Seth says
nathan:  extra drive space for images not biting into your puny 130 gig here.

how much do we get at houku?

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:00:48 [item 20161#47027]
If you want to proliferate hosted TD’s, you might consider a heroku paid multihosting account over trying to do it at inmotion.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:05:35 [item 20161#47028]
hmmm …. thought 20168
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:10:33 [item 20161#47030]
problem with that is i have already paid inmotion till next year … at a good rate i hesitate to add.   so this is a timing, cash flow thingey.  in december of next year the inmotion jumps way up.  that would be the time to move. 

we have to think do the extra setup measures justify the added expense right now when there is no revinue comming in to offset it.  to be honest with you, that is a no brainer, even before i would discuss it with group denise.
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:16:11 [item 20161#47032]
Hummm …. well, that makes sense as far as doing your own multihosting account at heroku, but as far as just hosting a site for someone, the $7/month could be bundled in and then what does it matter if the actual site is at inmotion or heroku? The advantage of the super simple one url install and the extra drive space for images not biting into your puny 130 gig here and the scalable system if they expand rapidly without having to do anything other than add more dynos and charge them for it, may make heroku a more cost effective option even for you to host sites.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:22:09 [item 20161#47033]
yeah that might be a goo path for a customer who wants to pay heroku $7/month and lease the software from us.   assuming of course that their server is not already bogged down with hundreds of domains already running on the computer.    they probably also have a reseller program, but i doubt that there is much revinue there for us.   with inmotion, at least for the next year, it is all our revinue. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:27:13 [item 20161#47035]
Not quite understanding. I mean that you would be the host. It doesn’t matter where you plunk down the actual site. You would pay the $7 at heroku and own the actual account there, exactly the same as you do here at inmotion. They would just use the site and wouldn’t even have to know where it physically exists. It would just make your job of hosting easier …

… and the one big thing it would do, is deal with the hard drive space issue without having to pay inmotion more and get locked in further. That 130 gig is going to go real fast with just a few more TD’s here, especially once my meme maker is online.
ok.   just depends on what we can lease these domains for.   houku has a $7 disadvantage right now over inmotion … so that’s the real economic edge here. 

Holmes says
Or else the extra cost will go to inmotions next teir space anyway.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:34:44 [item 20161#47037]
i think we can host images somewhere is a super cheep cloud.  that would free up our space requirements. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:39:03 [item 20161#47038]
Yes. I have looked into that. But any way it is done is a committed development project, not a simple switchover. More like a dot 3 feature. If you get lots of dot 2 domains, heroku may be an easier option.
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:42:10 [item 20161#47040]
well sounds like a decision that happens when we get there with a real domain to open.   right now  some extra steps that i go through to open a domain are trivial … and does not really bear on the economic decision. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 07:46:24 [item 20161#47041]
Well see. I opened this thread as a BTW. And it remains that, but well see what actually drives the economics in real time. When both are available and customers are calling and the harddrive is in the redline area … it may not be that you already have an inmotion account that matters to you then.
yes yes, if it happens that way, it would be great smiley   … i’ll go study houku site. 

Mark de LA says

Price is one thing, BUT CONTENT is King – something interesting & easy that others want to copy.  

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 07:52:09 [item 20161#47043]
… but i think we go ahead and open ,, and at inmotion … and go with what we can do immediately now.   inmotion is a know … it is solid … a  resource we already own.    
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 08:08:59 [item 20161#47045]
And, I can open as many heroku free acounts as I want, to play and cherry the process and see how it works. As long as they sleep 6 hrs a day, while I sleep, no big deal.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 08:12:44 [item 20161#47047]
i have to revise group doc so that it does not have any live references that will obviously not clone to the new domain on an install.  
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 08:14:09 [item 20161#47048]
Yep. I have already been cleaning up administrators similarly … and organizing it into one sticky thought menu with tag groups for things like templates.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-02-27 08:18:38 [item 20161#47050]
so the front door on a new install goes to group 2 which will be named in the url after the admin finishes the install at “set up” time ?

.. and i still suggest the “?” in the tool bar go to group 2 …. or becomes a domain setting.    it IS the domain home … and can be whaterver the domain leasor wants it to be … a index … a contacts page … a blog … a announcement page … philosopyy .. whatever. 
Poe of group da 2016-02-27 08:31:04 [item 20161#47051]
Yes. And that is also where I plan to put the TODO list as an initial thought. It will have instructions and links on it for all the things to do to finish setting up the domain and will be able to be back roomed or deleted when completed.