I am other than you

originally said by seth  2016-03-01 16:22:30 [item 20224#47502] in dialogue to nathan
well certainly who moves me … who creates me … who tells my story … makes a total difference to me.   pretty much just like you, i pride myself in moving my own deeds, in creating my life, in telling my story to the world … me myself … the old, please mom i want to do it myself.  

so that you presume that you are creating me, sure comes to me as a nausea.  to be honest it just tells me that you are actually completely oblivious to what i am actually creating in my life.  it tells me that what you are creating over there which you are experience as me … is not me at all … but rather just a figment of your imagination.   if you were actually seeing me as otherness to you … i would be coming to you thought your senses … not from your imagination. 


Or said differently from my point of view:   I do not like that you prefer your image of me, in preference to the real me which only i can project.   Please do get the real me through your senses, and not from your imagination.   And please, please stop reifying your image of me as if it were a real alternate me … it is not me at all.    

Don’t forget that i (and only I) create the real me … of which i experience from the inside.  You experience that real me from the outside through your senses.  That you can presume to make up a “real” alternate me and pass it off to me as if it was just an alternative universe me … it laughable in the extreme laughlaugh.   In fact doing that is what i call your ultimate disrespect for my otherness to you. 
 

I am other than you,
realize that,
or tell yourself a lie. 

Tags

  1. otherness
  2. nathan
  3. thought 20231

Comments


Holmes says
I can have an experience of you. And you are having an experience of you. That is what is. Anything other than what you experience, and what I experience, is a lie. You would have me restructure my experience to better match your experience and replace things I directly experience with imagination about things you tell me to make that happen. That would be a lie. Accepting things as they are is the truest to true that can be had, no matter what mapping system is used to represent that which is being experienced on both sides.

My experience is composed of all the sensory information I have available. I am not suppressing any to get a different picture of you. What I have is the most true that is available to me. All I could possibly do different from where I am is imagine something more that I am not directly experiencing. I am sure there are some imaginary components in my experience of you, that is the unavoidable nature of our being here. But I assure you those are as minimal as I am able to consciously make them.

This is the base. This is what is. How we frame it and draw maps about it afterward does not change it, but only gives us references to reach out beyond what we directly experience with. Those maps will never be the territory. My maps honor that they are in fact my maps. I consciously say I make them. Others venture beyond their direct experience with their maps and tell themselves it is the real territory. I don’t pretend that way. I acknowledge all that I know of you, beyond my direct experience, is from a map that I created. That is essentially the only difference in the two models of otherness.

Mark de LA says
laughing

Seth says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

?

Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

seth of group seth 2016-03-02 08:29:26 [item 20231#47591]
?
I am God. So are you. No reason to convince you otherwise.

Mark de LA says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

seth of group seth 2016-03-02 08:29:26 [item 20231#47591]
?
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:49:45 [item 20231#47596]
I am God. So are you. No reason to convince you otherwise.
Then why did you have to mention it? laughing

Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

seth of group seth 2016-03-02 08:29:26 [item 20231#47591]
?
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:49:45 [item 20231#47596]
I am God. So are you. No reason to convince you otherwise.
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:51:58 [item 20231#47600]
Then why did you have to mention it? laughing
Because in your quote, you seem to have forgotten.

Mark de LA says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

seth of group seth 2016-03-02 08:29:26 [item 20231#47591]
?
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:49:45 [item 20231#47596]
I am God. So are you. No reason to convince you otherwise.
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:51:58 [item 20231#47600]
Then why did you have to mention it? laughing
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:53:39 [item 20231#47602]
Because in your quote, you seem to have forgotten.
Apparently God plays the RWG – part of the fun & silliness mentioned in the quote! laughing

Mark de LA says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:28:29 [item 20231#47590]

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

seth of group seth 2016-03-02 08:29:26 [item 20231#47591]
?
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:49:45 [item 20231#47596]
I am God. So are you. No reason to convince you otherwise.
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:51:58 [item 20231#47600]
Then why did you have to mention it? laughing
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 08:53:39 [item 20231#47602]
Because in your quote, you seem to have forgotten.
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 08:54:56 [item 20231#47604]
Apparently God plays the RWG – part of the fun & silliness mentioned in the quote! laughing
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 09:15:59 [item 20231#47617]
one little system problem here … and i am not sure what happend.   bug

i had liked yes mark’s starting quote in this thread.   I saw it on my screen.   Where is that comment recorded now?  Did sombody delete it?  Is it still in the database … and the system just not showing it?  
it looks like that above in the comment here

Seth says
i don’t know what you mean mark.

here it looks like this …

note my initial yes of your quote does not show in this screen scrape. 

Seth says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 09:28:32 [item 20231#47626]
o – idk
i suppose there might have been a way that Poe could have deleted it … but more likely it is a bug in the system bug… either it got deleted when Poe made his first reply … or it did not and the logic of displaying is omitting displaying it.

Holmes says
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 09:39:03 [item 20231#47630]
It is defiantly a forking situation, but it should fork and the one with the like should be there too as a different thread. Don’t know why it didn’t.
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 09:43:51 [item 20231#47631]
well it is not there.   and this has happened a number of times.   what is strange is that nobody but me has noticed it happening.   that makes me challenge my own observations.  

anyway are you reporting that that my initial like is not in the database at all?  did you actually look?
I am looking at the code at the moment, for any possible holes. Looking in the database for something like a like is pretty tedious.

Mark de LA says
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 10:07:08 [item 20231#47636]
Okay. They are all revived. As you can see, it was there. Even ran for a while. Then disappeared after one of my comments. I believe Mark was just messing with the comments and copy and pasting things and didn’t copy that. It didn’t disappear by the system, but right out of the middle of a block of text. The system can’t do that.
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 10:28:04 [item 20231#47639]
i don’t understand.  if you can make http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20231#47591 appear now as you just have … why does i not appear when you show it in the new threaded mode?   
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 10:31:47 [item 20231#47640]
Exactly. If you follow along, you see your thumbs up disappear. But not as a whole thread, but out of the middle of the text. That can only happen if the text copied and edited. The system does not edit inside thread blocks, only copies them complete.

Mark could copied it. Deleted the original. The pasted it back to look similar. He has done that several times before. it’s the only way something could be removed from the middle of a threaded block like your thumbs up was.
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 10:32:53 [item 20231#47641]
Mark did you do that?
I may have – I don’t remember – I don’t think so – I use this tool so fast some days that I probably should run a recorder behind me to answer such questions. I note things that cause – in your vernacular – a tilt. The only thing I remember about the quote was that quotes still don’t work in comments. 

Seth says
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 10:43:21 [item 20231#47643]
Okay. I apologize to Mark. Believe it or not, it is actually and always still there. I got to wondering and looked at the HTML in the page. The thumbs  up is down there, but it cannot be seen. Perhaps it has something to do with the css for the quote block. Checking into it.
?

Mark de LA says
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 12:16:26 [item 20231#47654]
This is fixed. Blockquotes in comments needed to have an explicit height. It’s not that your comments were getting deleted. They were just having an invisibility spell cast upon them by the blockquote mystic.

This may apply to a few other things other than just blockquotes, possibly some kinds of images.
Don’t bother seeking them out, but if you see one, just let me know. What it actually does is make the comment unhide-control-bar disappear so it is easy to spot … if there are a lot of comments and no unhider, the mystic has been at work.

This will be fixed in a much better way when atomized thread and comments come out.
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 12:38:58 [item 20231#47655]
yes … thanks … people not seeing their comments appear would piss people off.
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 12:40:08 [item 20231#47657]
Sure! But around here, people seem to like just getting pissed off for the hell of it too!
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 12:40:52 [item 20231#47658]
laugh … tis true … tis all too true.
Nice meme to spread Poe – glad I’m not there.laughing

Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-03-02 13:10:42 [item 20231#47663]
I wonder if the quoty thingy inside comments fot fixed pondering

It is OK if you think or believe that you are God. It is only when you begin to try to convince others that you really are that the fun & silliness begins. 
      M.R. laughing

MR of group mark 2016-03-02 13:11:15 [item 20231#47664]
Snuck not today! laughing
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 14:27:30 [item 20231#47667]
i believe that there are reasons that quotes need be different in comments than in the body of a thought.   nathan mentioned that a couple of times. 
Yes. That was actually seth’s original idea. When we had the fancy quote blocks in threads it really made the threads hard to read. They kind of took over the whole thing. But thats a visual thing, not the same technical issue.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 17:23:08 [item 20231#47670]
If somebody tells me,  they completely created me,  i know it is a lie, to the same certainty that i know i partially created myself.   Either what they call “me”, is not me … which is almost certainly the case … or they are certainly mistaken.  ← that is a logical relationship …. er, i’ll post it in group logic
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 17:28:11 [item 20231#47671]
I agree. If anyone anytime tells you they created YOU, then they are quite full of it!

However, if anyone should tell you that they create the version of you they experience, the map they use to represent you beyond what their senses tell them, if you like, then you should consider them to be very honest, because otherwise they are saying they know things as fact that they have no way of knowing about you!
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 17:39:32 [item 20231#47674]
yep.   and, i would hasten to add, their “version of me” is not even me in some alternative universe. 
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 17:45:50 [item 20231#47677]
That last is a pretty grey area. Notice you even say “alternate” and “universe” as if it were even a thing. That is a self contradiction, an oxymoron, like jumbo shrimp. There is either a uni-verse where there is one place where everything happens, or there is a multiverse with many parallel verses.  
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 17:53:40 [item 20231#47680]
well that is another assumption … or choice …

one of these optain … but not both …
  1. there is just one set of happenings, yet many sets of possible happenings – or
  2. there are many sets of happenings
your choice.

Notice happenings here are not counted relative to an observer.  If a happening is relative to an observer, then it is called an “experience” … and we are talking about diffeent things. 
seth of group seth 2016-03-02 17:55:00 [item 20231#47681]
but please ...this is a logical argument … not a synthethic one.   It is better to argue it in group logic
Poe of group da 2016-03-02 17:57:18 [item 20231#47682]
Okay. But “alternate universe” is still an oxymoron even with all you say about it. Uni is one. Alternate is at least one more than one. It is saying “more of one” to say “alternate universe”. No matter what you believe about if there are more or not, the term itself is imaginary.
yep … easily fixed in the language.   there may be one verse, or many verses.  the pertinant thing is was you count as happenings in these verses.  

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