Request for a good place to land


When we click on a thought that hasn’t been written yet, why wouldn’t we land in a good place to write it?

Tags

  1. nfeatures
  2. landings
  3. title
  4. landing page

Comments


Holmes says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 05:29:11 [item 20311#47999]
Well, for one thing, what is a good place to write it?

You might think, “oh that group” … but quite frankly, when I create a title reference, I have mostly been creating them to other groups, not this one. When I am creating them to this one I am usually using the [!contents] command instead, or something else.

… and also, you may have just misspelled it, so defiantly it should not open an RTE … at most, only a link that could open an RTE.

… more to figure out before such a feature would be ubiquitous. ← tigger requirement
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 06:21:33 [item 20311#48000]
well there was no pen in group “author” [whatever that group is] ….see picture …. so i don’t know what your are talking about.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 06:26:28 [item 20311#48001]
So? Your not answering the “what would be a good place to write it” question. Can’t read your mind. Don’t know where you want to start writing it at.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 08:18:29 [item 20311#48031]
laugh … er … well in the past i have noticed that if i express a design proposal before you get ready to implement it .. you will inevitably go the opposite direction … just a funny thing that happens between us … so in this case i intentionally avoided doing that … hoping that you would would have come up with my idea independantly, because it is kind of obvious …. and then you would not , of your nature, need to get excited about zigging away from it laughlaugh

but since you asked … and thinking out loud here a bit ...

if the person can write in the group from whence they clicked the thought that did not exist yet,  then obviously you should land in that group with a pen in their hand.

however suppose the they cannot write there.   well then you have two choices …

if the can write in their focused group, then i think that is probably whre they would like to write the thought,  go there and hand them a pen

if they can not write in their focus group, go to their profile group and hand them a pen there

if they don’t have a focus group set, well go to their profile group and hand them the same pen.

…. there tiger now jump jump jump roseheart

p.s.  or if doing that is too complicated, at least change the group menu from what you say as “author” (even though there is not group “author”) … to be “choose group...” which is what it does if you click it.
Group author is transitory. As I have indicated before, it means that the system doesn’t know what to do. Fixing being able to write in Marks closed group in some contexts cleaned up a bunch of spaghetti logic that was attempting to figure out what group a person is in when they are not in a real group, based on old group names etc.

Now the ideas about what to do with virtual groups are flowing in. Even the error screens on another thread today are related to that. I’m sure it will go away soon. Not sure why it is such a big deal to you though, even if it never did change it’s quite logical to have a common word for “your not in any group right now” and author is as good as any. The name of the basegroup, the place the home button takes you, may also be good, or maybe there is something even better. Well see.

Holmes says
p.s. It came up today somewhere but I lost it before I could reply, so I will put it here. The existing [!contents] reference is very good, but it is for a particular kind of thing. It is for helping you create a list of [!title] references that are actually part of a thought and that you can further edit and taylor to your needs, whatever they are. I got tired of making those kinds of lists manually. I also wanted to get the post-edit functionality into the system so it could start getting used.

Another kind of reference that actually displays, instead of edits into the page, the current topics for a group, and that can have options to filter private etc contextually, and is pagable in large groups, is probably a better choice for a table of contents in most situations. This reference we have fills a particular niche and caused post-edit to become a feature. It was never intended to be the end-all of a table of contents.

 

Seth says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 08:52:51 [item 20311#48033]
Many things happen exactly as you suggest them. You don’t tag those things, they just flow on easily and are lost in memory. The things you tag, internally or in fbi, are the things that stick out. But also, you have a forewarning when something is not going to go as desired. A person can feel that ahead of time if they are paying attention to the threads of the feeling of excitement. I say that is an indicator telling us that all is not apparent yet, that it’s not ready to pop. At those times when you have the thought that I may not go your way of the moment, then it could be a good indicator that your thought is not ready yet, not ready to pop.

In this case, though your approach is logical given how you got to it, there are other wisps of possibilities already coalescing on the edge of the event horizon. Assuming how people will use their tent and what it means in relation to how they work and create things is not such a good idea. I already use my tent differently that you do. Trying to put that into the sequence of pen in hand is clunky and abrupt and may often be wrong. Pretty much any way of suddenly wrenching someone away to another group is dramatic and can leave them feeling lost and confused.

There are more error situations than this one too. There are private thoughts, deleted thoughts, empty groups, and more. A more comprehensive error screen solution that gives people choices before taking them out of the context they are in feels nicer. It’s also good to have many choices and be helped to see what they are. Creating a new thought is one thing we could do when delving on an unlinked reference, and may work good in your work flow, but there are other possibilities and other work flows. Giving the person a moment of space, and options, will let them get in touch with what they really want. Maybe they want to create a new group for that thought. Maybe they want to sign in to the group where the thought was and then put it in that group, and not where their tent is. Maybe the thought exists but is in draft mode or private, or is just spelled wrong and a search may find what they really wanted, etc.
 
when i said, “put a pen in their hand”, i just meant land on a place where the pen would show in the tool bar .  laugh  .. not opening a RTE for them as it seems you thougt i was suggesting.

anyway, my p.s, now i think about it, is the best, and simplest solution … please go back and read it.   You have mis-named the screen.  There is no group “☹ author”.  Instead that should be  a instruction to open the menu to select a group.  It should be shown as “group ...” or some such thing that implies to click on the tool to open a menue to select a group for whatever intention the author has in mind.
 
thinking out loud re your philosophic comments …

We do things, and expect things, by habit, and believe that the habits will work … and usually they do.  When they don’t, sure enough we get surprised and as you put it “tag” it in our memory and if we are being practical, we consciously jump out of the habit and figure out something to do to manifest our intentions … or as you call it “follow our excitement”.  

Then there is the anticipation that things will not happen as desired or as intended or even as expected.   Me i get all manner of those anticipations … and … er …. just as have you … i have been watching and studying these anticipations all of my life.  Unlike you, i have not reached the conclusion that the anticipation alone in a indication that the things are not ready to happen … or as you put it, “pop”.   In fact more likely it is the opposite.  The anticipation itself being in error.  “Why?” you ask.   Well just because when i change the anticipation (if i can) and act accordingly, what happens is quite to my likeing and even more likely than not, exceeds my fondest anticipation.   If you want to consider that, you might read my “I go with what happens - a qualia” thought.  Now i am not sying  that you way is wrong … or even that it is not better … rather i am just recanting for you my experience that sees to be about the same kind of happenings.
 

Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:30:56 [item 20311#48037]
Speaking of landing somewhere. I tried the general search by clicking on the magnifying glass in the header & got one the challenge is when I follow an item expecting a memvance remem it gets lost & brings up a previous search.  I think all lists presented should act like menus. Maybe a bug, eh? Sorry folks  I had landed here when I rethought the thunk to post it. Motile it where you want.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:35:23 [item 20311#48039]
Yes. That is a bug. I talked about that bug with Seth in a thread 2 or 3 days ago. Not a very high priority bug on the list though. I usually fix bugs like that when I am working in that particular code rather than jumping on them. Saves time and effort overall when there is only one coder on the team.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:39:47 [item 20311#48040]
Yep a lot of words go bye in the news & like a newspaper or facebook I skip the ones not immediately attracting my attention. I even forget if you have a real (unified) bug list somewhere. The notion of lists as menus is a good thunklet, though .pondering
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:45:22 [item 20311#48041]
I read everything. Doesn’t seem to be a point to being here if I don’t. As far as a lot, it seems like very little to me and that is reading all of it. When I worked at microsoft in teams of anywhere from 12 to 30 there was as much more as that number of people is more than 3 (you do the math ) and I was required to read all of it. This is nothing and without reading it all I am not well informed.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:56:30 [item 20311#48043]
Thanks for the lecture on your magnanimity . I was stating my user point of view on the news, facebook & everything else.  If we get more than say 10 or even 100 users (if we get that far) one could wonder pondering whether it is worth while personally to read it all.  ….. just saying … &
​said! loving it 
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:59:50 [item 20311#48045]
Well, that is what I say often too. Every time I do say it, Seth talks about how it will just be interesting and he will love the random samples and what he might learn or be surprised about from them. I would rather talk about what can be done about it … like filtering, and focus groups. But so far, I have had no like minded thinkers jumping on board.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 10:07:26 [item 20311#48050]
laugh i have no idea what you are saying that i talked about which has to do with “random samples”.  

Sorry i can’t folllow this thread from mark’s suggestion to this conclusion.   Maybe somebody can summarize it, sans the subjectivity and ego jabs.  sorry, not going to follow it as it lays here.
No jabs. Just telling what happens. I bring this up with you about once a week or so. The best I have ever gotten is “focus groups sound nice”. Usually you end with something like “I can’t really tell what that experience will be like until it happens”. Okay, I can tell. It is easy to go there ahead of time, even without quantum jumping. So, until what Mark said, I have been alone. There is no jabs here. This is the experience I have. It’s not qualified or judged, it is what it is. I bring it up in case, by seeing the dilemma, you will be inspired to look at it with more focus.

Seth says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:52:02 [item 20311#48042]
When your human thoughts go to groups, in any context, it would be good to have in mind all the groups that are not real in the system. Humans probably think it is just the river and the news. SeriTD has a much more intimate awareness. Here is how she sees it.
function isVirtual($group) {
    switch ($group) {
        case 'add':
        case 'user':
        case 'title':
        case 'author':
        case 'river':
        case 'item':
        case 'news':
        case 'tags':
        case 'update':
        case 'search':
        case 'cartoons':
            return true;
        default:
            return false;
    }
}

 
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 09:59:53 [item 20311#48046]
ok Smartseri knows if a human is looking at a group or not.  If the human is not looking at a group, she should presnet a menu of groups to look at, so maybe she could say “Groups ...”.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 10:02:03 [item 20311#48047]
virtual groups or activities?
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:07:25 [item 20311#48049]
In a way, that is the question. Some things you do require the software to know what group you are in even when you are not in a group … or are you. Most of those things use the last group you were in. Many of these in the list are never seen my humans, but the folders, like update, and add, still contain code that runs as if that were the group. Right now there is a general idea of where this is all going, but it is not yet well defined. Something like activities may be the answer.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 10:17:42 [item 20311#48054]
it is all just a list of groups to go go … or things that can be done to the current group … or groups to join to put on the list.   it very clearly is all abrout groups.   so if it is not showing the group it is in … open it to choose one.   Why don’t you put that up and try it … how much time will that take?
trust me … this one is ready to POP !

Mark de LA says
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:30:56 [item 20311#48037]
Speaking of landing somewhere. I tried the general search by clicking on the magnifying glass in the header & got one the challenge is when I follow an item expecting a memvance remem it gets lost & brings up a previous search.  I think all lists presented should act like menus. Maybe a bug, eh? Sorry folks  I had landed here when I rethought the thunk to post it. Motile it where you want.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:35:23 [item 20311#48039]
Yes. That is a bug. I talked about that bug with Seth in a thread 2 or 3 days ago. Not a very high priority bug on the list though. I usually fix bugs like that when I am working in that particular code rather than jumping on them. Saves time and effort overall when there is only one coder on the team.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:39:47 [item 20311#48040]
Yep a lot of words go bye in the news & like a newspaper or facebook I skip the ones not immediately attracting my attention. I even forget if you have a real (unified) bug list somewhere. The notion of lists as menus is a good thunklet, though .pondering
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:45:22 [item 20311#48041]
I read everything. Doesn’t seem to be a point to being here if I don’t. As far as a lot, it seems like very little to me and that is reading all of it. When I worked at microsoft in teams of anywhere from 12 to 30 there was as much more as that number of people is more than 3 (you do the math ) and I was required to read all of it. This is nothing and without reading it all I am not well informed.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:56:30 [item 20311#48043]
Thanks for the lecture on your magnanimity . I was stating my user point of view on the news, facebook & everything else.  If we get more than say 10 or even 100 users (if we get that far) one could wonder pondering whether it is worth while personally to read it all.  ….. just saying … &
​said! loving it 
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 09:58:19 [item 20311#48044]
.. maybe little loa says something about that which is not read ... maybe not.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 10:28:57 [item 20311#48061]
Another thunklet is pump the news through a !contents thingy. <----------  smug less display to go thru than all the comments themselves
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:33:09 [item 20311#48063]
When the news was titles only, people wanted more. Just saying.
But anyway, I don’t read the news ‘as it is’ … I read it in my mind the way it is on FB, and ignore the rest of how it isn’t that way yet. That way I attract what it will be sooner.
Yep, like fb I read that attracts my interest in the news here, presumably anything else can be searched for.laughing

Holmes says
Oh, and that was only double quoted, there are
There are 74 results in 36 files
  1. single quote ones too! But about half of them are in old files fortunatly.

  2.  

Seth says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 09:52:02 [item 20311#48042]
When your human thoughts go to groups, in any context, it would be good to have in mind all the groups that are not real in the system. Humans probably think it is just the river and the news. SeriTD has a much more intimate awareness. Here is how she sees it.
function isVirtual($group) {
    switch ($group) {
        case 'add':
        case 'user':
        case 'title':
        case 'author':
        case 'river':
        case 'item':
        case 'news':
        case 'tags':
        case 'update':
        case 'search':
        case 'cartoons':
            return true;
        default:
            return false;
    }
}

 
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 09:59:53 [item 20311#48046]
ok Smartseri knows if a human is looking at a group or not.  If the human is not looking at a group, she should presnet a menu of groups to look at, so maybe she could say “Groups ...”.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:04:00 [item 20311#48048]
Maybe. That’s one possible choice. Try that one for a while and see if you really like it in all your different flows. And jump around and try a few others too. If you mean to loose the rest of the group menu items in that situation, I have already come across several flow paths where that feels wrong.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 10:12:10 [item 20311#48052]
no i am suggesting no such thing as “loose the rest of the group menu”.

And, yes i would love to try my suggested way of relating to this menu … and i could, if you woud just change the wording on the screen from “author” to “Group ...”  –- the “...” as usually implying to, me,  the human to click on it to open the menu of groups.   
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:25:55 [item 20311#48058]
I actually wish I could just do that easy. It would be nice to just make that one change. But this is not just a name being shown, it is actually detected by the system as a group. I just did a grep for it and there are 35 places in 21 files where it would have to be changed to work as a real change … that’s why I want an end point solution instead of just changing code and trying things.

I could just detect “author” about to be displayed in the group gadget only and change it to group&hellip;, but I am not seeing that as the best ending solution, and it will only change there, not any of the other messages and places it comes up. But if that really helps you find an end point solution, then I’ll give it a try.

 
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 10:42:54 [item 20311#48071]
come on give me a break .. if there is not just one place in your code where you coin the use of the word “author”, then you are writing spaghetti code.   in other words, me thinks you are giving me a snow job. ← just reporting my current belief.  … and no, i am not talking about code comments.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:46:02 [item 20311#48075]
Neither am I, and it’s not spaghetti code either. Good thing it’s still winter!
 
There are 35 results in 21 files
  1. about.html (line 7) <meta content="Seth Russell" name="author">
  2. fbi-plugins.js (line 583) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor,
  3. fbi-plugins.js (line 633) // "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor,
  4. fbi-usr.js (line 139) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor,
  5. fbi.js (line 1109) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor,
  6. fbi.js (line 1319) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor || 'guest',
  7. fbi.js (line 1403) "author": guest.name || 'guest',
  8. fbi.js (line 1515) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor || 'guest',
  9. fbi.js (line 1607) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor || 'guest',
  10. fbi.js (line 1709) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor || 'guest',
  11. fbi.js (line 620) "author": aut,
  12. fbi.js (line 725) "author": ath,
  13. fbi.js (line 815) "author": myFbi.cookieAuthor,
  14. fix.tags.html (line 56) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  15. index.php (line 10) <meta name="author" content="">
  16. index2.html (line 10) <meta name="author" content="">
  17. mis-group.php (line 101) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  18. mis-permalink.php (line 329) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  19. mis-permalink.php (line 64) case "author":
  20. mis-permalink.php (line 65) $expect="author";
  21. mis-permalink.php (line 79) case "author":
  22. mis-river.php (line 113) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  23. mis-room.php (line 138) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  24. mis-tagroom.php (line 144) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  25. mis-title.php (line 108) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  26. missing.php (line 314) case "author":
  27. missing.php (line 315) $expect="author";
  28. missing.php (line 333) case "author":
  29. phpcon.php (line 80) <meta name="author" content="">
  30. subdomain.php (line 435) <meta name="author" content="">
  31. add/index.old.php (line 395) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  32. add/scripts/domain.js (line 159) "author": db.creationauthor || '',
  33. add/spawn/php/unspawn.php (line 71) <meta name="author" content="">
  34. myfastblog/index.php (line 18) <meta name="author" content="Seth Russell">
  35. update/ajax-group-new.php (line 45) "tags","title","item","feed","offset","author","authors","user","users","images","add","update","media",
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 10:47:03 [item 20311#48076]
Okay. Some of those are not comments, but are <meta> tags. But still, there are not a trivial amount.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 11:06:36 [item 20311#48078]
no no no … that is your usage of the word “author” in your code.   obviously i was talking about that.

someplace in your code there  is a place where you set that selection list to “heart author”.   instead of setting it to that, set it to “Groups ...”. 
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 11:08:48 [item 20311#48079]
I guess you didn’t read my whole comment then.

I could just detect “author” about to be displayed in the group gadget only and change it to group&hellip;, but I am not seeing that as the best ending solution, and it will only change there, not any of the other messages and places it comes up. But if that really helps you find an end point solution, then I’ll give it a try.

When I was replying, I assumed you read that part too.

BTW … this is done, was done minutes after I wrote it. Been there 30 minutes or so now

Great !  Works for me yes

Now i can pick a group to complete my thought.  smug
product picture
incidentally in the past 30 minutes, i have 1) fixed dnise’s computer, 2) carefully diagnosed a problem that a blind customer was having with a our masuring cup (picturred here) and determined that we will need to replace it, 3) peeled 3 tangerines and gave denise 2, and i am still 19 comments behind anybody who has caught totally up. 

your judgement that everybody should read  all of your comments in the same order you wrote them, and interpret them in the way you intended,  is laughable in the extreme. 

 

Mark de LA says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 11:28:58 [item 20311#48088]
As you wish. When I come to the computer it almost never takes me more than 3 minutes to catch up here even when there are 30+ items in the queue, and then maybe 5 more to go back and comment on the couple I want to. Every once in a great while I loose my spot. Maybe I use news differently, IDK.

I do keep my news to include me and be for the last whole day?
And I do mark it read when I start and then look at the old until I have it all?
Those make it go faster.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 11:37:29 [item 20311#48092]
that is fine for you … i do just about the same thing.   but that was not the point of what i am trying to point out to you. 
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 11:42:16 [item 20311#48094]
Me2 – I need a personal !ignore button in my brain so as to keep my mouth shut & not respond – am almost caught up trying to get back to group projective geometry .crying
!oops!

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