Wierd 2

Wierd - I have to delete the contents & re-enter a new content statement in order so add a limit or reverse the order or whatever ... 
​Weird clicking on the earliest ordered item gives me a room with forward & backward arrows & when I click on another backward arrow it goes to a different group. See item at the top of the contents this group.
​Note the two spellings both of which trigger my spell checker & indeed the first word in each linelaughing

Comments


Seth says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:09:02 [item 20321#48117]
Are not permalink rooms simply supposed to increase and decrease the item # so the next item could be in any group? That appears to be the way seth wrote that code.

This list is not a collection, it is just a list of links to permalink room thoughts.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 14:18:06 [item 20321#48119]
My old fbi1 experience was that I could guess the last item in a group by altering the offset in the group & then if an error decreasing it by an intuitional amount until I got there.  It looks like there are no group offsets anymore. So now apparently you can page through a random group after the last item in a previous list of permalinks? Indeed some deleted items show up as well ... kinda confusing on the next-previous page thingy.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:21:17 [item 20321#48121]
As far as I know, that logic works the same. All I changed was that the buttons always go the same direction in the collection no matter what the room. Beginning to end.

Group collections should still work the same according to number.

Permalinks always did page to the next +1 item id. Still do that the same. Even if it doesn’t exist.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 14:28:58 [item 20321#48123]
yesterday i used the arrows to go way back in my group looking for a prius … never did find it btw.   So that still works as before and mark’s binary search via group offsets should still work.   the trick might be that to go backward in the group you click the arrow that faces forward … nathan switched that.  maybe that is why your search didn’t work for you, mark.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 14:35:03 [item 20321#48125]
Well if it is the first/earliest item in a group going left arrow like a book should give either the title page by analogy or error by fbi.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:38:59 [item 20321#48126]
You guys are complicating it by trying to figure out the collection order. If you don’t worry about that and look at your group page and realize that right takes you down the page or to the next page and left takes you to the prior page, which is back, then you never have to think about it again. Most people don’t know the collection ordering but they can see what is on the page and the arrows make sense for that. That you knew ahead of time what the collection order is is making your head hurt! (not mind reading, just an expression)
well like we discussed,  when thumbing the screen up to get to he older stuff below is what we are doing then your right that i all we need be considered with.

but it does not work that way now … now we are paging within pages of a book … and ususally we are looking at he latet stuff in the book … we flip the page back to read what came before.  I recommend going the model the way is today … instead of switching to something before it is here. 

Holmes says
And besides. Rooms are not ordered by thought number at all. They are ordered by the last date that “republish” checkbox was checked. The actual thought id’s can be in any order.

Holmes says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:51:34 [item 20321#48130]
it’s because you have knowledge of how the system is built, and are trying to outsmart it or utilize it’s possible edge cases that you are having trouble. If you just look at every possible room as a book, and next arrow is next page, and prior arrow is prior page, then it will never fail you.

it’s when your trying to change the url for your own design that it doesn’t work.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 14:53:17 [item 20321#48131]
no it is not.   it is following the model of turning pages in a book.  
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:58:42 [item 20321#48132]
Then follow the model we hand you. Your not being handed a book, sometimes open to the last page, and sometimes to the first. Not at all. You are always handed a book open to the first page. That’s the way it always looks. Physically and everything else. That the bookmaker happened to put the last dated page first in the book is simply part of the intended design of that book. You literally are at the beginning. You read it in the order the bookmaker made it in. It works perfectly if you don’t try and figure out what the bookmaker is doing.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 15:04:05 [item 20321#48136]
nathan i am not going to keep arguing this incessantly with you ..   as you see you tripped up both of us on this switch.   look i got used to it … although i do a little voodoo on you every time i have to think to go right to decrease my thought numbers .   you can keep it switched around going the wong way, if your cant make the correction in you verse.  it is kind of funny though.   i’ll send your email address to every person who trips on it. 

laughlaugh
Okay. But Mark did not trip in any normal way on this. He tripped on trying to do a thingy with the numbers in the url, or so he said. That’s not how a normal user will be using the system.

Heck, Mark has even said many times that we should not have that info in the url’s anyway!

Holmes says
I noticed the beginning of the line spell check thing too.
I looked at the html and the RTE is actually putting an invisible character at the beginning of some lines. I don’t know why it does that, but the nanospell spell checker doesn’t know to ignore those invisible characters and underlines the word.

Holmes says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:09:02 [item 20321#48117]
Are not permalink rooms simply supposed to increase and decrease the item # so the next item could be in any group? That appears to be the way seth wrote that code.

This list is not a collection, it is just a list of links to permalink room thoughts.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 14:18:06 [item 20321#48119]
My old fbi1 experience was that I could guess the last item in a group by altering the offset in the group & then if an error decreasing it by an intuitional amount until I got there.  It looks like there are no group offsets anymore. So now apparently you can page through a random group after the last item in a previous list of permalinks? Indeed some deleted items show up as well ... kinda confusing on the next-previous page thingy.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:21:17 [item 20321#48121]
As far as I know, that logic works the same. All I changed was that the buttons always go the same direction in the collection no matter what the room. Beginning to end.

Group collections should still work the same according to number.

Permalinks always did page to the next +1 item id. Still do that the same. Even if it doesn’t exist.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 14:28:58 [item 20321#48123]
yesterday i used the arrows to go way back in my group looking for a prius … never did find it btw.   So that still works as before and mark’s binary search via group offsets should still work.   the trick might be that to go backward in the group you click the arrow that faces forward … nathan switched that.  maybe that is why your search didn’t work for you, mark.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 14:35:03 [item 20321#48125]
Well if it is the first/earliest item in a group going left arrow like a book should give either the title page by analogy or error by fbi.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 14:42:30 [item 20321#48127]
book pages are numbered exactly the same way as thoughts are numbered here at fbi.  one goes FORWARD> in a book to read from the early pages to get to the later pages.
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 14:47:48 [item 20321#48128]
That’s true for thoughts in thought rooms. You decided a long time ago that the same is not true for group rooms. In group rooms the first thought is the latest. As it should be. But not something anyone but the builders of the system will have much awareness of. It’s just natural. And so are the buttons, naturally next, and naturally prior.
seth of group seth 2016-03-05 14:58:46 [item 20321#48133]
no no in all rooms the thought showing is usually the last thought … not the first thought.   in our system it is very hard to even find the first thought.   that you have dubbed the last though that shows on the top of a room, “the first thought”,  is just a error in your numbering system … go with the actual thought numbers … not what you subjectively want to number them. 
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 15:01:40 [item 20321#48134]
Why? People have no real understanding of thought numbers. They are just codes to them. They sure don’t think in them. They are handed books of thoughts in order. They love that it’s all done and made and they read it and it works well.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 15:08:53 [item 20321#48138]
somehow I expect that  !content results plugin should page in order by <date-time> either forward in timestamp or visa-versa & that the arrows on the top of the page should make some logical sense for paging through them. Is that not true anymore? If it is true then there should be some kind of logical paging stop at both ends of what I am paging through that makes sense to someone outside of the administrators & code-jockeys brigade … just saying .. & ,,,
​said!
 
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 15:13:23 [item 20321#48139]
Well, it is all logical. The simplest logic it could be.

It does page stop (except for the permalink room). It is pages in order. You start at the front. You press right to go to the next and left to go back. It is always that way in any room or view. Very logical, very easy.

It only gets less than easy if you try and second guess how the author of the book arranged the timeline for the book and then try and think about it in the order you think it should be in.

If you take the book as it is handed to you it is always logical and always works the same.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 15:26:28 [item 20321#48141]
So sifting through all that what does date & date reverse modifiers mean to the paging arrows usage? 
​real answers please rose
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 15:31:15 [item 20321#48142]
The same actually. The date modifier gives you the exact same order as your group room does. The date reverse modifier reverses that order. This is the normal way our books are ordered so the modifiers have the same meaning. Since our rooms are in order of last published to first published, that is the same as the date modifier will give you.  You can also add noback if you don’t want the back room thoughts. And private if you also want private thoughts. And private only if you want only private thoughts.

The default order is alphabetic. Which is what I usually want for a large set so that I can find things easily in it.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 15:34:59 [item 20321#48143]
So if I understand – content date reverse paged with the left arrow should error or stop or something … Most computer languages that run of the end of a vector on one end or the other (stacks etc.) have to handle the error condition . Those that don’t open opportunities for malware.
Well, these contents being built are not a collection. The content's are just urls to pages. Your not delving on a collection, your simply going to a page by itself. Once on that page, there is no knowledge of how you got there or what some previous ordering was. This is how ALL things in the system work. Once you advance to a single page, there is only the order of next page id or prior page id. The information about where you were in a collection is gone.

This is the same if you go to a thought in a group room, or a tag room, or a search, or any room. The table of contents is no exception to that. Once you advance, you are on a single page.

Holmes says
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 15:47:19 [item 20321#48145]
I personally think that the arrows should be removed in single thought view. They are confusing and make little sense. Going to the next thought by ID is not really that helpful. It could be anywhere and may not exist at all or be private. A person should to back and then down again in the set.

But every time I have brought this up one or the other of you says you use it a lot.
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 15:51:53 [item 20321#48146]
Please elaborate on single thought view. If I am in a group on a single thought the next thought makes sense. Or perhaps the same goes for the river. 
Well, the system, the way it was originally designed and still is, does not know about groups and grouping once you get down to viewing one thought by itself. When you click on either the title of a thought in any gouping room, or the thought ID reference at the bottom of the thought, it takes you to just a single view of that thought.

In the url it is /item/#### where #### is the id of the thought.

In that place, single thought view, there is no group structure, or at least, that’s how it was designed. The thought does belong to a group and it is possible to reconstruct a view of that group and then figure out the next one in that view … but that can only be done if you know what the view was that you came from. If the view is just a list of links in a page, like the table of contents is, then it is nearly impossible to know how the author of that page ordered things and they even could have changed the order with copy and paste too.

Mark de LA says
MR of group mark 2016-03-05 16:06:08 [item 20321#48148]
Hmmm’. shades of demolishing groups … ponderinglaughingrose
​Well anyway paging arrows should make some logical sense unless you want one double ended arrow that just means ANOTHER! 
Topanga of group da 2016-03-05 16:10:53 [item 20321#48149]
Yep. That’s what I say. That’s why IMHO the arrows don’t make sense and should be removed in single thought view. Anything the arrows could do in single thought view would at best be an more or less educated guess.

Shade of demolishing groups? Never heard of that. This is the way it has always worked since I don’t know how long, but defiantly for a long time in fbi1.
maybe the accumulation of more spec has evolved & Darwin is taking over – fork it!

Mark de LA says
BTW in Windows I use the mouse buttons on the left & right side of the mouse to go forward & backward through bunches of web pages