Navigational Wallaby

This AM thinking about the lack of symloops & CyberMind™  in general.  Navigation was the power of CyberMind™  Here we have in the  the possibility of a “navigator” which can go better than just forwards & backwards in a “book”. Regardless of the lack of collections here, any list can become a symloop conceptually & whe could add extra arrows to go “next under”, etc – lots of CyEnglish & MPL analogies could apply.
… just saying
& said.newcool tuit

Tags

  1. memvance

Comments


Holmes says
MR of group mark 2016-03-07 08:39:47 [item 20336#48311]
next on my list would be:
  1. Navigating tetraks
  2. Navigating crystal structures
  3. Navigating graph databases  like Neo4J (*)
Well, it’s kind of cool you are adding this now … before any spek at all is written for any kind of multidimensional navigation … that way we can consider the whole stew pot.

Holmes says
seth of group seth 2016-03-07 09:12:02 [item 20336#48316]
Currently we have JACE/REJACE  – movin back and forth on thoughts within a  context (or menton).   And we have VANCE along a arrow pointing to a context with things like tag, or click on a group.   Anything that is a room here, i consider to be a context. 

We have yet to design a structured way to move within a plane of arrows from thought to thought … er except by virtue of clicking on the hyperlinks that we put in our thoughts. 

Maybe we could use embedded plugins something like …

    { !searchUnder !contents }

if a person clicked on that, then next/prior would suddenly become the NEXTUNDER of the olden days.
 
Yes. Ideas like that are good. But first, the challenges I mention above need to be figured out. Then the different actual ways to navigate, and create navigational links, can be experimented with.

Seth says
Polyana of group da 2016-03-07 08:07:32 [item 20336#48308]
I agree. I have had thoughts in that direction too. I’m still absorbing the possible ways to make something like that work from my alternate selves in other verses who have already implimented various forms of it.

There are some challenges.
  1. The system has to know that one delved on a list somehow.
  2. If they did, the system has to somehow make that particular list available down stream so that the arrows can be configured.
  3. What if there are two links in a list line? Maybe both are relevant and should be part of the jump sequence, but maybe not. One may just be informational and it would be weird to include it. How to know?
  4. Probably at least one  or more additional things I have not thought of yet that will need to be handled.
seth of group seth 2016-03-07 09:22:25 [item 20336#48318]
the challenges
  1. the mem stack must be preserved – big question of whether it is local,  or server session, or even preserved in the db … & or …. is it designed to be trans domain.  
  2. i don’t think so.   the list is in the data, it is the plane of the links in the thoughts themselves,  does not need to be made available any more than it already is … it is the thoughts themselves.
  3. not sure what you are talking about …. that model has yet to be described.  but why is a new model necessary … we already have thoughts … they are what is being navigated.
  4. ...
tuvak of group da 2016-03-07 09:28:00 [item 20336#48320]
I am not even sure what you are thinking of as the list. Mark’s original, and mine, is using straight up html lists (like the <li> tag) like are created by the contents feature etc.

There would not be a mem stack or anything else like that. Just a list of links in some loose collection in some thought. But even that is doable once the challenges I describe are well addressed.
seth of group seth 2016-03-07 09:31:15 [item 20336#48321]
well i am saying you don’t need to create some new list …. these semantic structures already exist … right in the plane of the thoughts themselves.   and even recently we have added a new one !contents . 
tuvak of group da 2016-03-07 09:35:02 [item 20336#48323]
When I create an html list in a page, it only exists right there. Not sure what you are saying.

Sure, if you just want to navigate query defined lists of thoughts then it is a different problem and solution even if some parts are similar.

But it is far more interesting and me thinks useful to be able to jace on any kind of list anywhere, not just on ones tightly associated to the database.

Think about how I use html lists to generate property lists for plugins … how I did the options for the renton co-op table for instance. This is what I am talking about. Free form lists, and not even inside references, any list anywhere.
seth of group seth 2016-03-07 09:40:54 [item 20336#48324]
strangely enought i think we are talking about the same thing.   the HTML in a thought has already semantic structure … lists etc.   so show where the navigator’s attention is in the list.   If there is a hyperlink in the list, then clearly if one clicks on it to some other thought they have memvanced form one list to another. 

all i am saying is that you don’t need to carry the prior list around … you just need to mem it somewhere where your can remem it. 
tuvak of group da 2016-03-07 09:45:56 [item 20336#48327]
Well yes, as far as the implementation details go, that is just a development choice. And probably I would choose to carry the list because it is more efficient.

My list of challenges are in the semantics, not the implementation details, which can vary widely system to system and context to context.
okay yes

but carrying the list is … er, stupid … and probably not even more efficient.   and it limits what you can do with it.     the big thing is that it could change after the delve … then your saved list is broken.

and, if you do not carry the list, but rely on the list that is already there in the HTML the browser is looking at, you are setup to navigate trans domain.   that would really be a innovation on the web.

Seth says
if a browser lands in a thinking domain with an attention stack in its local memory, then why cannot it not just continue to navigate.  the remem would take it right back to where it was in the prior domain where the person took the hyperlink.


all we need is to define the data of  where attention is in the thought.  and that is what gets put in the memstack.  obviously it needs at least to be a full URI … and probably where it is in the HTML document model.

Mark de LA says
Polyana of group da 2016-03-07 08:07:32 [item 20336#48308]
I agree. I have had thoughts in that direction too. I’m still absorbing the possible ways to make something like that work from my alternate selves in other verses who have already implimented various forms of it.

There are some challenges.
  1. The system has to know that one delved on a list somehow.
  2. If they did, the system has to somehow make that particular list available down stream so that the arrows can be configured.
  3. What if there are two links in a list line? Maybe both are relevant and should be part of the jump sequence, but maybe not. One may just be informational and it would be weird to include it. How to know?
  4. Probably at least one  or more additional things I have not thought of yet that will need to be handled.
seth of group seth 2016-03-07 09:22:25 [item 20336#48318]
the challenges
  1. the mem stack must be preserved – big question of whether it is local,  or server session, or even preserved in the db … & or …. is it designed to be trans domain.  
  2. i don’t think so.   the list is in the data, it is the plane of the links in the thoughts themselves,  does not need to be made available any more than it already is … it is the thoughts themselves.
  3. not sure what you are talking about …. that model has yet to be described.  but why is a new model necessary … we already have thoughts … they are what is being navigated.
  4. ...
I have billions of thoughts already – navigating them in some sensible/rational architecture from one to another would be nice. Basically I don’t need any more especially a bowl of thought soup (thought stew?).  Anyway I woke up with this one in my contemplation. However I suggest contemplation for a bit rather than implementation.

See Also

  1. Thought An attention memvance (sans ego) with 0 viewings related by tag "memvance".