Thinking Domain Quads

General Quads

is 1 or 0 (not true or false)

context subject verb object note
domain settings    
domain <uid> rights  
domain [<gid>] rights  
domain [<gid>,<uid>] rights  
domain all rights  
group      
thought      
comment      
tag       *
user      

Domain Settings Quads

context subject verb object note
domain settings display sytles  
domain settings sign up thought id  
domain settings about title the title text
domain settings river title the title text
domain settings star icon url to icon to use for star in menubar
domain settings river icon url to icon to use for river in menubar
domain settings homegroup group id of home group

Group Property Quads

context subject verb object note
group -gid- permanence  
group -gid- autostatus  
group -gid- hideTagCloud 1 or 0
group -gid- globalTagCloud 1 or 0
group -gid- showRiver 1 or 0

Thought Property Quads

context subject verb object note
thought   no-comment   *
thought   no-tag   *
thought   no-footer   *
thought   copyright   rights to copy *

Comment Property Quads

context subject verb object note
comment   nothread   terminate the comment

User Property Quads

context subject verb object note
user   data   user profile
user   password  
user   group   profile group
user   email  
user   home   tented location
user   mute-notify-sounds  
user   hide-online-status  
user   spell-checker  
user   profile-image  
user   profile-thought   edit user profile with

* not yet implemented or used


Tags

  1. rights
  2. quads
  3. settings
  4. thought 20371

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 05:43:13 [item 20371#48528]
All quads with a subject of <uid>, me thinks, are though property quads.  The context could be considered to always be a  fixed context like “thought”.  But why limit it?  A subject can be in any context.   Examples can be provided.

 
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 05:45:25 [item 20371#48529]
Don’t really know what you mean.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 05:56:40 [item 20371#48530]
well if these quads are always just “system” quads which the system uses to establish facts of operation, then, yes a quad talking about a particular thought <id> would have a fixed context … as you established it, “thought” … saying in essence this is how to process this particular thought.

But what about quads with a though <id> that is not just being used by the system to establish facts of operation.   So that thought can be in any context that somone wants to consider it.  For example any thought in group seth could be considered to be in the context group seth.  If i moved it to group fbi then you could consider the thought to be in the context of group fbi

← just saying that we can use quads for things quite apart from just system settings. 

 
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 06:00:50 [item 20371#48531]

Not seeing how that is “using quads” though. If you move a thought to another group, nothing in the quad table changes at all. The quad table has no relationship about what group a thought is in.

If you are just calling being in a group a quad-like relationship for your own thinking, then I guess so. But there is no actual relationship like that in the system.

In fact, I can pretty much say now that this is one place where doing the whole system in the quad table would have worked against us. The kinds of queries that access group relationships would have been much slower if the quad table stored the group → thought relationship. Sometimes exact tables provide better efficiency and stability.

If you want to build a logical system on top of the existing structure that works with concepts of the system as if they were quads, that could be a thing … for someday anyway

seth of group seth 2016-03-09 07:15:41 [item 20371#48532]
Yep your system will work just fine …. if the context contains the string “thought” then your code knows right away that the pairs are properties of  some thought.  The subject contains a thought number.

Good to know that … so nobody should expect to use your quads routines to process quads authored by people and embedded in the thoughts themselves.  For in that application, the number which stamps the identity of a subject is not determined by the which context the subject is in … 56 in the subject could be talking about thought 56 … or it could be talking about group 56.   That is why TBL, in his wisdom, insisted that each element of the triple be a full unambiguous URI. 

← but hey, i know you don’t want to think about that shit.  As you say, leave it for a different developer.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 07:22:51 [item 20371#48533]
Yep. As I said before, you would need quints, not quads, to build an efficient system operation table.

Due to the restrictions TBL placed on quads, they do not easily model all things, just some sets of things in the human world … unless you just create a whole bunch more quads to store the additional relationships … but that just offloads the issue onto a query programmer to stand on his head in fountains until he can think out a whopper query which will get the information back out when it is needed in some kind of an efficient way … if it even can be done.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 07:51:53 [item 20371#48534]
Well sure you probably will need to type each element to make a practical system ...otherwise, as you say, you would need to use too many extra arrows.  

You might find it funny that i actually designed a “pents” system and even made it work … see the graph of the data structure here.  ← just a historical note.

But as far as i know, these can represent anything which can be expressed in language.   Theoretically of course, but i have never found a contra example.  

Anyway don’t let this distract you.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 08:06:20 [item 20371#48535]
Okay. Because even if the current structure is not strict quad semantics (slightly ambiguous triples), it is very clean and organized well for contextual permissions and subjects are real subjects and verbs are the real action component even if both of those are not unique. So if someday the table was to be expanded into a different system it would probably fall right into place quite naturally.

And I would ask, why are quads only context + triple? Why can’t another type of quad be a true quad such that all 4 of the keys must create a unique identity? That seems like a “true quad” to me. The context + triple is only a hybrid … and if so, then my quads are “true quads”, not quadified triples.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 08:25:04 [item 20371#48539]
…. er, all 4 of the quads do create a unique identity.  Well certainly in the Sementic Web implementations …. each element of the quad is a full unambigjuous URI.  

… or maybe i have no idea what your phrase “all 4 of the keys must create a unique identity”.   and btw, the elements of a quad do not “create” that entity, they just point to it.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 08:37:04 [item 20371#48541]
Hey, I’m just haring up from your statement “That is why TBL, in his wisdom, insisted that each element of the triple be a full unambiguous URI.” … and saying that in our fbi system each element of the quad is a full unambiguous URI.

“and btw, the elements of a quad do not “create” that entity, they just point to it” … that’s your way of looking at it. Based on my current and evolved over time understanding of reality, I would say that more often than not, what we use to represent things is actually what creates them. For instance, Science is “created” by consensus of opinion, not discovered by it … I realized this a year ago watching Gerald do “science” and publish in journals and compare notes with peers. They were not “discovering things” as they thought they were doing using the “scientific method”, they were literally coming into agreement with how things should be in all of their individual verses and then solidifying them to be that way with their journalism and lectures … synchronizing like minded thoughts which then created each of their realities to be similar. Actual things could have been any way up to that point … and usually are in most peoples experiences.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 09:44:03 [item 20371#48543]
Well what you put in the subject is not a full unambuiou URI … unless you are doing something you havent descibed to me.     if the number 20 can be in the subject, it could point to either group 20 or 20.    However if you did “id_20” or “group_20” that would be an  unambiguous reference within a domain and could even be translated into a full URI outside the domain … http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20   or http://www.fastblogit.com/20

We can consider our different models of what is happening elsewhere.  Its nice that we both can understand the different assumptions upon which our different minds are based.  That way there we don’t need to argue them. 
My 2¢ wonders why, of if? even, you have a syntax description in language or mentographs somewhere of the magic object called a quad besides the [SVOcontext] thingy. pondering What you folks seem to be discussing is implementation.  What is interesting is that just about any SQL database is described by the tables which may be of 2 columns or thousands.

Seth says
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 05:43:13 [item 20371#48528]
All quads with a subject of <uid>, me thinks, are though property quads.  The context could be considered to always be a  fixed context like “thought”.  But why limit it?  A subject can be in any context.   Examples can be provided.

 
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 05:45:25 [item 20371#48529]
Don’t really know what you mean.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 05:56:40 [item 20371#48530]
well if these quads are always just “system” quads which the system uses to establish facts of operation, then, yes a quad talking about a particular thought <id> would have a fixed context … as you established it, “thought” … saying in essence this is how to process this particular thought.

But what about quads with a though <id> that is not just being used by the system to establish facts of operation.   So that thought can be in any context that somone wants to consider it.  For example any thought in group seth could be considered to be in the context group seth.  If i moved it to group fbi then you could consider the thought to be in the context of group fbi

← just saying that we can use quads for things quite apart from just system settings. 

 
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 06:00:50 [item 20371#48531]

Not seeing how that is “using quads” though. If you move a thought to another group, nothing in the quad table changes at all. The quad table has no relationship about what group a thought is in.

If you are just calling being in a group a quad-like relationship for your own thinking, then I guess so. But there is no actual relationship like that in the system.

In fact, I can pretty much say now that this is one place where doing the whole system in the quad table would have worked against us. The kinds of queries that access group relationships would have been much slower if the quad table stored the group → thought relationship. Sometimes exact tables provide better efficiency and stability.

If you want to build a logical system on top of the existing structure that works with concepts of the system as if they were quads, that could be a thing … for someday anyway

seth of group seth 2016-03-09 07:15:41 [item 20371#48532]
Yep your system will work just fine …. if the context contains the string “thought” then your code knows right away that the pairs are properties of  some thought.  The subject contains a thought number.

Good to know that … so nobody should expect to use your quads routines to process quads authored by people and embedded in the thoughts themselves.  For in that application, the number which stamps the identity of a subject is not determined by the which context the subject is in … 56 in the subject could be talking about thought 56 … or it could be talking about group 56.   That is why TBL, in his wisdom, insisted that each element of the triple be a full unambiguous URI. 

← but hey, i know you don’t want to think about that shit.  As you say, leave it for a different developer.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 07:22:51 [item 20371#48533]
Yep. As I said before, you would need quints, not quads, to build an efficient system operation table.

Due to the restrictions TBL placed on quads, they do not easily model all things, just some sets of things in the human world … unless you just create a whole bunch more quads to store the additional relationships … but that just offloads the issue onto a query programmer to stand on his head in fountains until he can think out a whopper query which will get the information back out when it is needed in some kind of an efficient way … if it even can be done.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 07:51:53 [item 20371#48534]
Well sure you probably will need to type each element to make a practical system ...otherwise, as you say, you would need to use too many extra arrows.  

You might find it funny that i actually designed a “pents” system and even made it work … see the graph of the data structure here.  ← just a historical note.

But as far as i know, these can represent anything which can be expressed in language.   Theoretically of course, but i have never found a contra example.  

Anyway don’t let this distract you.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 08:06:20 [item 20371#48535]
Okay. Because even if the current structure is not strict quad semantics (slightly ambiguous triples), it is very clean and organized well for contextual permissions and subjects are real subjects and verbs are the real action component even if both of those are not unique. So if someday the table was to be expanded into a different system it would probably fall right into place quite naturally.

And I would ask, why are quads only context + triple? Why can’t another type of quad be a true quad such that all 4 of the keys must create a unique identity? That seems like a “true quad” to me. The context + triple is only a hybrid … and if so, then my quads are “true quads”, not quadified triples.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 08:25:04 [item 20371#48539]
…. er, all 4 of the quads do create a unique identity.  Well certainly in the Sementic Web implementations …. each element of the quad is a full unambigjuous URI.  

… or maybe i have no idea what your phrase “all 4 of the keys must create a unique identity”.   and btw, the elements of a quad do not “create” that entity, they just point to it.
Sylvester of group da 2016-03-09 08:37:04 [item 20371#48541]
Hey, I’m just haring up from your statement “That is why TBL, in his wisdom, insisted that each element of the triple be a full unambiguous URI.” … and saying that in our fbi system each element of the quad is a full unambiguous URI.

“and btw, the elements of a quad do not “create” that entity, they just point to it” … that’s your way of looking at it. Based on my current and evolved over time understanding of reality, I would say that more often than not, what we use to represent things is actually what creates them. For instance, Science is “created” by consensus of opinion, not discovered by it … I realized this a year ago watching Gerald do “science” and publish in journals and compare notes with peers. They were not “discovering things” as they thought they were doing using the “scientific method”, they were literally coming into agreement with how things should be in all of their individual verses and then solidifying them to be that way with their journalism and lectures … synchronizing like minded thoughts which then created each of their realities to be similar. Actual things could have been any way up to that point … and usually are in most peoples experiences.
seth of group seth 2016-03-09 09:44:03 [item 20371#48543]
Well what you put in the subject is not a full unambuiou URI … unless you are doing something you havent descibed to me.     if the number 20 can be in the subject, it could point to either group 20 or 20.    However if you did “id_20” or “group_20” that would be an  unambiguous reference within a domain and could even be translated into a full URI outside the domain … http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20   or http://www.fastblogit.com/20

We can consider our different models of what is happening elsewhere.  Its nice that we both can understand the different assumptions upon which our different minds are based.  That way there we don’t need to argue them. 
Cruiz 2016-03-09 09:57:10 [item 20371#48547]
Why is it necessary to have unique subjects in an entire verse? If so, then they should be something like GUIDS so then they don’t need to be “constructed” by code which takes extra time and makes code that is less stable and much harder to maintain.

The verse has many subjects with the same name, such as Seth Russell, or even just a verse which can be an experience in the multiverse or could be part of a song or poem. Doesn’t seem to me that making subjects unique is needed. All that needs to be unique is the context-subject-verb and then a whole verse is mappable.
well like i said, for representing system settings,  and only system settings, it almost certainly won’t matter.   you can have your context,  “group” or “thought”,  hard coded to specify the type of the thing identified in the subject.  but in a more complex systems, those things might need to be considered in a wide variety of different contexts … and were that to ever be necessary your hard coding will prevent the consideration.  but again, that almost certainly will never happen … and even if it does you can inform the wizard of the domain that such a consideration is  quite impossible for technical reasons wink.

imho, it doen’t help to mix a philosophy of verses with the design of a KR system … the latter should be able to represent anything regardless of the assumptions of the former.  to me, its more just mathematics.

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