The Qualia Wallaby

About: qualia - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Seth idea for introducing me to the term qualia. This morning’s silence gifted me with an interesting one.  The word as defined in Wikipedia is philosophical & complex & related to epistemology mostly.  I simplify qualia by saying that it is a 12-sense (or more)-percept; as such not limited to the 5-sense physical senses. 
Anyway, I decided to suppress my inner voice which was the most annoying of the moment by using emotional music from my memory of Elastic Heart without the words – just generating the mood & sound (auditory internal) of the music as best I could without the words. I made up voice without words.  Voilla! Stuff was still there. I could hold on for several moments in that state & find qualia of other dimensions. Some such effect I have had previously by messing with the sound of my own breathing. 
 

Tags

  1. qualia
  2. LOATrick
  3. CognitiveDissonance
  4. LOA
  5. experiences
  6. insides
  7. TooManyWords
  8. EgoEgoo

Comments


Mark de LA says
Seth 2016-03-21 08:13:06 [item 20619#49893]
happy … yes amazing these qualia … the stuff of human consciousness.  Amazing too how much control we have of them … ← one of my own recent wallabies.   To grok them better ask, “What if there were no qualia?” →   Me thinks, we would be like SciFi robots.  Btw, AI has nary a clue how to artificially create a qualia in a devise … nor do it … but i do it all the time in me smug
?

Seth says
MEiAm 2016-04-01 08:52:23 [item 20619#50672]
I hold qualia as something more like a sense – the sum total of all senses of a moment of focused perceiving ; that which sires emotions & actions via cognition & meaning subsequently applied to what is sensed.
?

Mark de LA says
Now I am looking for the pre-cognition qualia for excitement sans the post qualia interpretations, meanings,  philosophy & ontology that usually accompanies the word on these blogs. I want most fervently to grok what part conscience plays in the processing of the qualia. 
Please don’t waste time with any Nike slogan responses.
pondering
There is also the distinction called incitement – 

When a man considers the question of good and evil at the present day, hesitating as to whether he should or should not do a certain thing, he says that a kind of inner voice speaks, telling him: ‘You ought not to do this. You ought to do that!’ and that this has nothing to do with any outer law. If we listen to this inner voice, we distinguish in it a certain impulse, an incitement to act in a certain way in a given case. We call this inner voice conscience. - See more at: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA/GA0116/19091025p01.html;mark=171,22,32#WN_mark 

incite (v.) Look up incite at Dictionary.com
mid-15c., from Old French inciter, enciter "stir up, excite, instigate" (14c.), from Latin incitare "to put into rapid motion," figuratively "rouse, urge, encourage, stimulate," from in- "into, in, on, upon" (see in- (2)) + citare "move, excite" (see cite). Related: Incited; inciting.

Mark de LA says
Seth 2016-04-01 09:14:55 [item 20619#50678]
whatever story i tell about qualia, it would be a story about what something feels like to me.   there being  no restrictions on what the “something” can be … i can be conscious of anything.   the “to me” part being what makes them singularly important.  sans “to me” in the equation, there would be no qualia. 

just dawned on me that you can take out th “like” in the sentence.   so it becomes →
 
“what something feels to me” smug ← there i put my qualia on this one wink
?

Seth says
whatever story i tell about qualia, it would be a story about what something feels like to me.   there being  no restrictions on what the “something” can be … i can be conscious of anything.   the “to me” part being what makes them singularly important.  sans “to me” in the equation, there would be no qualia. 

just dawned on me that you can take out th “like” in the sentence.   so it becomes →
 
“what something feels to me” smug ← there i put my qualia on this one wink

of course when I think about how that must be said in language.  “what i feel about something” ← works just as well.  surprise ← qualia of just now working that out smug ← smugness because i did it laugh ← because how silly i am. 

Seth says
mark:  “looking for the pre-cognition qualia for excitement”  ←  new

an interesting quest.  surprise

Seth says
Seth 2016-04-01 09:10:04 [item 20619#50675]
whatever story i tell about qualia, it would be a story about what something feels like to me.   there being  no restrictions on what the “something” can be … i can be conscious of anything.   the “to me” part being what makes them singularly important.  sans “to me” in the equation, there would be no qualia. 
MEiAm 2016-04-01 09:14:17 [item 20619#50677]
Yep – you are the one doing the perceiving.yes – the charge you put on it & story about it is post-qualia qualia 
Seth 2016-04-01 09:28:39 [item 20619#50682]
well my qualia always echo echo echo … but i thought that was just me laugh
MEiAm 2016-04-01 09:37:22 [item 20619#50683]
PR noted in one of his mind courses that experience is:  cause → effect → effect -→ effect → effect → effect → effect
laughing
?

Mark de LA says
Seth 2016-04-01 09:55:49 [item 20619#50685]

qualia:   “what i feel about something”

a definition by Bozo Faust

wherein the (perhaps dreaded → ) duality caused by  the “about” relationship between being and metaworld, doth rear its ugly head ← laugh
MEiAm 2016-04-01 10:11:53 [item 20619#50686]
Yep, not much interested in the story or the aboutness of the qualia; more like just a description of the qualia, as best can be summoned, & the context. See also NLP VAK sensory modalities. & submodality lists 
Seth 2016-04-01 10:23:51 [item 20619#50687]
to me that is like saying, you are interested in bunny rabbits, just not their bunny rabitness.  ← grin
MEiAm 2016-04-01 10:29:28 [item 20619#50688]
So you touch a hot frying pan & you can’t specify the submodalities of the experience of touch (kinesthetic) e.g. sharp, hot, very local , auditory sizzle, (etc. google for the list of submodalities) pondering
Seth 2016-04-01 11:34:00 [item 20619#50691]
well absolutely one can specify (or be aware of) the submodalities (specific details) of an experience. yes

but here we are generalizing … not being specific …. asking not about some specific qualities of the objects of consciousness … but rather asking which characteristics all consciousness(es) share.  i identified one such characteristic … they are (all) about something.   or at least they pretend to be. 

but sure, that is just my story of them.  who am i to say that a consciousness must needs be about something … it could have no aboutness whatsoever … it could just be … like a unapprehended mountain ← woopse, if it is unapprehended then one is not consioous about it.   ← but who says we must be logical.  so there exists in an other’s story a qualia that is about nothing.  direct consciousness.   ← not something that I can use or know about, not my business, over there, otherness to me ← not that there is anything wrong with that wink
Yeah … lost interest as the abstraction ballooned into the thinnest of soap bubbles floating in a whirlwind of smoking mirrors reflecting a dream hallucinated by shroedinger’s cat. Ketchup later as I get tuit

Si says

Si says

Seth says

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
munging all qualia of the thought-feeling-will kind into just feeling is an #LOATrick – maybe you-as-an-ego-in-some-universe is just a passing hiccup in some being ← hard to point at a qualia with that word. I suspect that talking about qualia like any of the 5-sense-world dispenses can’t can be divorced from the sensee (the person sensing it) except that the story afterwards makes one too divorced from the sense shortly after it has faded.
Try it on some painful input like your finger in the fire or somewhere else null

Seth says

Seth says
well for “you-as-an-ego-in-some-universe is just a passing hiccup in some being” they already named a quaia for it … it’s called #CognitiveDissonance.   I think #LOA has a way of avoiding it … so i wouldn’t put it as an #LOATrick.

A #qualia is just what a person #experiences subjectively … a thought, a emotion, or a deed,   .. every experience has a subjective view which only the one person experiencing has access.  That is what is inside the person.  That is what makes him have an #insides.  
← my conceptulizations, my city … i am quit sure yours is quite different.

Could you say, “ I suspect that talking about qualia like any of the 5-sense-world dispenses can’t can be divorced from the sensee (the person sensing it) except that the story afterwards makes one too divorced from the sense shortly after it has faded.”  more clearly.  Sounds interesting, but i am having troubles parsing it.

Mark de LA says
#TooManyWords – lost interest on this train. Am on a quest to regain the thingy in the body of this item. It was pointed to the last time I got today’s hex. 




Sea you later! 

Seth says
yeah it is stupid to suppose that qualia is limited to the dimensions of 5 senses.  that would contradict my own qualia.  for example i can subjectively feel my own #EgoEgoo null … it has quite distinct #qualia(s)

Si says
Judging by his comments, mark lives in a state of constantly being lost, lost in piles of words, lost in concepts, lost in munges … just always lost somewhere too much, too many, too different.  

Mark de LA says
Some of my best times were when I was lost – then I did not have to relate to people who gossip & talk of others & parry insults like nathan null – Encountered new people with new thoughts. 

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