I AM!
Early in childhood I was aware that I could speak the words & sentence “I am!” & that doing so only applied to me – then – & nobody else in the room even though others in the room then could speak the same sentence.
The physical boundaries between us were pretty obvious, but the boundary of the speaker of the phrase “I am!” seemed unique & invisible. Today some seem to extend such boundaries outside their own physical bodies & even to organizations, internets & selfies galore. Some isolate themselves & their whole world to that one speaker of the speaking “I am!”.
This is mostly an expository in nature about how one speaker of “I am!” treats another speaker of “I am!”. I am avoiding that other common word for the moment because it obscures & carries a lot of baggage. Some questions follow.
The physical boundaries between us were pretty obvious, but the boundary of the speaker of the phrase “I am!” seemed unique & invisible. Today some seem to extend such boundaries outside their own physical bodies & even to organizations, internets & selfies galore. Some isolate themselves & their whole world to that one speaker of the speaking “I am!”.
This is mostly an expository in nature about how one speaker of “I am!” treats another speaker of “I am!”. I am avoiding that other common word for the moment because it obscures & carries a lot of baggage. Some questions follow.
- What is valid for one speaker of those words to say about the speaking of those words by another?
- Are there some assumptions about my speaker which I can pass as valid for another speaker (… of those words ) ; phrase getting shorter. In particular about the qualia of such speaking or the other speaker’s disposition?
- Are we thus isolated & uncognizant with regard to any other speaker except our own “I am!”?
- Does one “I am” protect itself by construction of a wall to shield itself from the other “I am”’s just in case the veil between might get lifted accidentally?
- Who is listening when I speak “I am” in an empty room or in silence?
One speaker can identify with groups & others in terms of leadership, responsibility, art, etc.. but the peculiarity of the “I am” seems strengthened by the insistence of the “I am not!”.
Tags
- thought 20752
Comments
Mark de LA says
Be careful about your comments as this item will be heavily curated to stay on topic.
Be careful about your comments as this item will be heavily curated to stay on topic.
Si says
I am consistent. 
2016-04-06 10:59:19 [item 20752#50884]
My nice and harmonious comments that I was extremely careful about got deleted. No point in adding more.
2016-04-06 11:07:47 [item 20752#50887]
Nothing you added here on this item got deleted. I did delete an entire argument (thought) of mine elsewhere which was going nowhere, ignored my primary topic & was only generating your usual rwg. You see, (or 
I already had the wallaby & the thought & did not need the already-always contradictions from the peanut gallery on another subject.
I already had the wallaby & the thought & did not need the already-always contradictions from the peanut gallery on another subject. 2016-04-06 11:18:52 [item 20752#50890]
I generate content, not rwg
2016-04-06 11:21:20 [item 20752#50891]
Nice deframe – just your preferred form of rwg-starter. 
One would have to assume that you are always right & always telling the truth 
One would have to assume that you are always right & always telling the truth 2016-04-06 11:26:29 [item 20752#50894]
Yes. That would be a very good base assumption, to assign to me or anyone. If we all worked off that assumption life would be simpler, more interesting and expressive, and more elegant. 
2016-04-06 11:28:39 [item 20752#50896]
Or it could look like the M$M & politics or TV advertising. 
2016-04-06 11:38:22 [item 20752#50898]
I really don’t see this connection at all.
2016-04-06 11:42:32 [item 20752#50900]
Of course you won’t! 
Mark de LA says
Yep, something is happening here … but … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDC0b7rfK5U&nohtml5=False 
2016-04-06 12:09:43 [item 20752#50907]
I believe he spoke his truth and the truth of many Frenchmen … and quite consequentially i might add, the French resistance became strong and robust. I also believe that de Gaulle felt that … it was a direct qualia he shared with his fellow Frenschmen on that day of France’s darkest hour. So yes, we can identify our “I” outside of our skin … or rather we can draw our skin wherever we can feel and believe it to be. Of course people can lie about those feeling … but that doesn’t change how this “I” can work.On June 18, de Gaulle took to the radio airwaves to make an appeal to his fellow French not to accept the armistice being sought by Petain, but to continue fighting under his command. “I am France!” he declared.
2016-04-06 12:15:45 [item 20752#50908]
? Very cool. Not the same thing that is meant when one is said to create their own reality … but a cool aspect of it in any case.
2016-04-06 12:20:14 [item 20752#50911]
well it was a case of Frenschmen creating their reality. ← quite literally, and quite in fact.
2016-04-06 12:23:01 [item 20752#50913]
Sure, but that is unavoidable, it is the only thing that happens.
Seth says
You might be surprised how very little “experience accompanied by sensory qualia” i get when i say “I am” or even “I exist”. I get a more distinct and direct qualia when I “do x”, “feel x” or “think x”. So apparently these things vary even between brothers of the same human family. When i say “i”, i refer to myself, … to all of the experiences i am having, have had, and the deeds I have expressed in the world. But not necessarily to their representations like “selfie pictures” … those are like reflections in a mirror … when i say “I”, i don’t refer to them. I suppose, were i famous, that image would have a life of its own. So yes i dink with the image of me in the world … move it around a bit … even thought it is not me.
The feelings i get by interacting (or not interacting) with other people are me too. They are, after all my feelings, i will not disavow them … they are a part of me. I make them totally myself. I notice those feeling are quite unique to each individual that i know. But then there are the strangers, who know me not, and care even less … i make up feelings about them too … but i like to make those feeling be inspired by my sensual observations of them, and not be about myself or my agenda ← i am not always successful in that regard
Sometimes i do feel myself being up or down in some interaction with others … especially when they are putting me down and themselves up
, or when I am pushing my agenda on them, and they having none of it. When that happens, i like to find a way to avoid it becoming amplified and perpetuated. I don’t think that is my life or theirs either ← but that may be just my opinion.
2016-04-06 12:09:43 [item 20752#50907]
I believe he spoke his truth and the truth of many Frenchmen … and quite consequentially i might add, the French resistance became strong and robust. I also believe that de Gaulle felt that … it was a direct qualia he shared with his fellow Frenschmen on that day of France’s darkest hour. So yes, we can identify our “I” outside of our skin … or rather we can draw our skin wherever we can feel and believe it to be. Of course people can lie about those feeling … but that doesn’t change how this “I” can work.On June 18, de Gaulle took to the radio airwaves to make an appeal to his fellow French not to accept the armistice being sought by Petain, but to continue fighting under his command. “I am France!” he declared.
2016-04-06 12:19:28 [item 20752#50909]
We practiced such things in small with LEC – my motto in the group is somewhat inspired by such. That is something different from what I am saying. When the captain of my first US Navy ship returned to the ship from shore leave they always announce him as “Elkhorn arriving” . Theoretically I suppose he was the heart & soul of the ship – anyway it’s commander. Nobody confused that tradition of his returning to the USS Elkhorn with the actual ship made of iron, paint, electronics, & having a crew of 130+ men. I am talking about your qualia in all senses that holds your awareness when you say “I am!” – nothing else; no beliefs, arguments, mind games ...
2016-04-06 13:23:00 [item 20752#50933]
my point is that de Gaulle and the French Resistance had the qualia. ← perhaps the same one you are talking about … i don’t really know.
I appreciate that you seem to be saying that what you refer to when you say “I” is on an entirely different plane only groked directly by yourself. About that i agree with your (bullet 2), I can honestly, say nothing.
I am just telling you what “I” refers to when i use that word: it is based upon where I believe and feel my skin to be. I use the word in a way that make my sentences ring true with my experience. I would not refer to something which did not have that feeling. It would feel like a lie. For example i can not say that i created the plumb blossoms that i see in my orchard. That I do not feel. That others may feel they totally made their plum blossums, i can honestly say nothing (your bullet 2).
I expect the USS Elkhorn had a tangle feeling shard by all of its sailors even directly related to its cooperating machinery. That its captain traditionally spoke for that, would ring true to my experience were i to have served upon the ship. Personally I don’t think the word “I” refers to more than just those kinds of esprit de corps. And no, i do not presume to characterize or restrain what those spirits can be.
I appreciate that you seem to be saying that what you refer to when you say “I” is on an entirely different plane only groked directly by yourself. About that i agree with your (bullet 2), I can honestly, say nothing.
I am just telling you what “I” refers to when i use that word: it is based upon where I believe and feel my skin to be. I use the word in a way that make my sentences ring true with my experience. I would not refer to something which did not have that feeling. It would feel like a lie. For example i can not say that i created the plumb blossoms that i see in my orchard. That I do not feel. That others may feel they totally made their plum blossums, i can honestly say nothing (your bullet 2).
I expect the USS Elkhorn had a tangle feeling shard by all of its sailors even directly related to its cooperating machinery. That its captain traditionally spoke for that, would ring true to my experience were i to have served upon the ship. Personally I don’t think the word “I” refers to more than just those kinds of esprit de corps. And no, i do not presume to characterize or restrain what those spirits can be.
2016-04-06 13:34:46 [item 20752#50934]
Bullet 2 is a couple of questions. I can say with some reasonable certainty that you have had the direct experience accompanied by the sensory qualia of something you normally label with I when you say “I am!” . Most conscious people have that experience I can say with reasonable certainty just because we all share another property namely that of human. Most everything else you talk about is more the self, selfie or avatar of 1000 names you keep around for relating to others. The internal constant self talk plumps up the avatar or derides it & protects it etc… the subject of lots of pages in BofNK & others. The feelings associated in relationship between others is the rwg & supplies the momentem of the game according to whether the self is up or down during some kind of conversational interaction.
The feelings i get by interacting (or not interacting) with other people are me too. They are, after all my feelings, i will not disavow them … they are a part of me. I make them totally myself. I notice those feeling are quite unique to each individual that i know. But then there are the strangers, who know me not, and care even less … i make up feelings about them too … but i like to make those feeling be inspired by my sensual observations of them, and not be about myself or my agenda ← i am not always successful in that regard
Sometimes i do feel myself being up or down in some interaction with others … especially when they are putting me down and themselves up
, or when I am pushing my agenda on them, and they having none of it. When that happens, i like to find a way to avoid it becoming amplified and perpetuated. I don’t think that is my life or theirs either ← but that may be just my opinion.
Mark de LA says
Yeah, Seth you are somewhere else with that – more in the self ( I sometimes use a pejorative of the word selfie for a label) – the constructed story of your life. The thingy with meaning & wants & quests for meaning. The challenge for someone who wants the experience directly is that it doesn’t mean anything once you grok your “I am!” Like the zen folk say:
Yeah, Seth you are somewhere else with that – more in the self ( I sometimes use a pejorative of the word selfie for a label) – the constructed story of your life. The thingy with meaning & wants & quests for meaning. The challenge for someone who wants the experience directly is that it doesn’t mean anything once you grok your “I am!” Like the zen folk say:
"Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water."
What’s the difference? The tasks are the same. The need is the same. What about the frame of mind? Who is chopping? Who is carrying water?
(***)
Mark de LA says
?
2016-04-07 07:58:49 [item 20752#50951]
Yes mark, i am different. But i do know the qualia of which you speak. I heard about it a long time ago. I even know how to encourage it to happen more and more. I just do not do it.
See Also
- Thought What i mean when i say "I" with 1 viewings related by tag "thought 20752".