My most interesting thoughts about the thinking domains project

There are several things that make thinking domains a poor choice for people to actually commit to use …
  1.  the cursor in the RTE sometimes jumps around unpredictably … i am studying this with the presumption that it has something to do with the spell checker which has a popup that is also irrelivant to a user.  This kind of computer mischief is acceptable to early alpha users like myself,  but others expect and deserve more reliable tools.  
  2. the chat windows pop up distracting from focus on every new browser instance even though there was no chat dialogue instigated by the user. 
  3. there is no practical control provided to the owner of a thinking domain – currently it is up to the whims of an absent developer.  new said differently in this comment: http://www.fastblogit.com/item/20934#52159
  4. there is no cooperation in setting up a structure where other developers can continue to improve  the tool.
  5. the sharing to and from a thinking domain is retarded relative to other tools already available.
  6. comments need to be redesigned … see “Designing better comments” 
    • no need for duplicate action gadgets
    • name and date of posting should be the same for each comments in the thread – ie should always appear directly above the posting
    • the action gadgets actually appear within the posting body – they sholud appear on a separate line – almost certainly at bottom line of the thread isolated
  7. chat boxes that pop up every time a new window is opened.   these are fine in pre-alpha, but now should only pop up when there is a mutual  intent to use them … whether to know what someone else is doing, or to engage in mutual live conversation.
  8. get search engines like google to index only our permalinks

 

Tags

  1. goodstuff
  2. hashtag goodstuff
  3. abouttagging

Comments


Si says
nathan 2016-05-12 12:38:23 [item 20865#51974]
Written as a litany of what is not wanted. All is possible. Needs a rewrite as a story about what is wanted and it will happen.  

 
nathan 2016-05-19 08:48:14 [item 20865#52156]
Found this again finally today. I will read it when it is rewritten in a way that it is actionable in the verses.  Think back on all the times you had a complaint list to work from, and the other times you had a list of exciting things to do. Which happened with ease and flow? Which with effort and struggle? It is possible to build a house with a rock and nails, but using the right tool to drive a nail makes for an easier, more successful, and more enjoyable experience.  
Seth 2016-05-19 08:58:25 [item 20865#52158]
the list of holes is the list of holes … does not need to be rewritten. 

what i will do is start designing solutions starting with “[title comment redesign]”. 
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Mark de LA says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:06:08 [item 20865#52161]
Strange story – when I was building Common Logic Inc. as a company I also took the Communications Course from LEC & had to stand up & articulate what I wanted for the company.  Over & over in that dialog I tried to explain that I wanted something different from the ordinary corporate life of the day (which has gone in worse directions sense then). The point was that I needed to create something new as totally positive rather than just the opposite of something negative existing now. Finally, I articulated it as the means & the ends as well will be true, beautiful & good for all of our endeavors at Common Logic.  I remember bringing that back to the board meeting – some still preferred to haggle. laughing
Seth 2016-05-19 09:32:57 [item 20865#52166]
maybe there is no difference in regards to truth between ends and means laughing
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-19 09:43:10 [item 20865#52168]
& maybe the statement has nothing to do with truth!   
WOW! Wikipedia can come up with an interesting article on

Consequentialism

 just by typing in “the ends justifies the means” yessmugthumbs up

Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission from acting) is one that will produce a good outcome, or consequence. In an extreme form, the idea of consequentialism is commonly encapsulated in the English saying, "the end justifies the means",[1] meaning that if a goal is morally important enough, any method of achieving it is acceptable.[2]

I changed it a bit cool Of course you folks have declared the end to the RWG so this must be moot.
Seth 2016-05-19 10:17:03 [item 20865#52172]
we do have other thoughts specifically about this, so maybe better to move this discussion there.   maybe move the whole thread.  ← a thingey we need to be able to easily do here. 

i think separately judging means & consequences would be like judging the trough of a wave as bad and its crest as good ← me, i judge that would not be a good judgment.
Go ahead – you got the fork!

Mark de LA says
Seth 2016-05-19 10:45:59 [item 20865#52174]
it is fairly easy to move threads even now with copy paste.  That one above and this one  should probably go somewhere in the already existing room ends justifies means … either in a new common thought … or one focused by you … or one focused by me.  but me, i am a peace with judging my swimming in relationship to what happens (both inside and outside me) … i am not so very sure that i am focused on separating the troughs in myself and my environment from the crests, rather i see them over time as the same identical process.  ← since you appear to see it differently, perhaps that thought  would better be focused by you. 

strangely enough this comment belongs as a continuation of the thread that you apparently own but closed above.  ← so please consider it as such.
OK – that’s what it is. smug

Seth says
Seth 2016-05-21 15:31:34 [item 20865#52233]
(2) hmmm … thinking out loud.   well facebook has the ability to do that … and inevitably as this becomes use by more an more people we will need some defense mechanisms that people can deploy on thoughts that they own.   i had to delete a cartoon that mark posted on my “Bozos Discovery” this morning … it was just off topic and if responded to would have totally distracted anyone from the essence of that thought.  other than that his contribution was welcome even though it was provocative.   i said that to say i would not want to totally exclude him from contributing to that thought should he have something for it.   so, outside of the permissions that we already have i cannot think at the moment of any that would be an improvement.  

For example you apparently don't want mark contributing to this particular thought in group fbi to which he is a member.   i suppose we could have a feature that locked a person out of commenting on a partiular thought … but that seems totally chiggy.  your tactick above of just telling him to fuck off might work … but i have tried, time and again, prescribing etiquite to mark and he just revels in doing the opposit. 

so i don't know … people will be this way ... not something that we can change … and the more people we have here the more this will come up.  come up with a brillinat solution if you can smug
nathan 2016-05-21 15:36:17 [item 20865#52234]
#2 is a joke … and designed to get Mark to get his shit in shape. So, NC here.
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Si says
nathan 2016-05-21 14:59:43 [item 20865#52229]
Mark. Stick your head back up your ass and stay off this subject. And if you are considering responding. Fuck off!

Seth. We’ll work on the chat thing. That is good and needs to be right. The rest has nothing to do with us other than slightly related things you may find bits and pieces of below.

Some really needed things.
  1. Ability to tag someone to direct them to a posting. Facebook has this. It is clear this was needed while I visited here every day. Now that I can’t, this space is almost useless without the ability to direct something to a person.
  2. Ability to channel a dissociative entity such as Mark into a gutter and keep him there. Just kidding! (or not).  
  3. Some really well thought out wizard configuration and management tools. But they need really well thinking out.  
  4. Even easier ability to spawn a new site.
  5. The ability for other developers to add plugins is way better developed and even documented than you think. Any true javascript developer will be thrilled by what already exists. But I would love to develop and smooth it further.  

Have fun twisting your brains with this drive by love drop! Love you both and see you again soon! I am excited!  
Seth 2016-05-21 15:15:15 [item 20865#52230]
(1) well yes i can see the ability bring a specific post, or even a specific comment, to a persons attention … put that in their notifications (from person A to person B) is neeed … and sure it probably is best done in the chat app.  yes.    For example there are many things that i have said, in many different thought and comments which i woul have deerly wanted you to notice … but that is not the way this works … people will pay attention to only the things in their chosen context.  other people provoking them in a specific direction should certainly be possible … er, as long as it can be filtered according to the choices of the listener. 
nathan 2016-05-21 15:16:45 [item 20865#52231]
I didn’t mean to put the ability to tag a person in the chat app. The best way is just like FB. To tag someone in the text.  
Seth 2016-05-21 17:04:32 [item 20865#52247]
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Seth 2016-05-23 05:34:12 [item 20865#52270]
yet if you think about it, chat is the only facility here where information flows from specific person A to specific person B in real time.  So that for a person to be notified of such in their chat window seems just the perfect place for it to happen.   Why introduce a new facility to do that which is happening already. 

[notify nathan] ← so because i tagged you something like this,  means that this comment (or a reference directly to this thread) appears in the chat box which is from me to you. 
The FB way is well known and understood and works really smooth. The news should be a drop down feed just like on FB and with personalized notifications sorting to the top. Why need to look more than one place for the things that interest you?

I would be in favor of simply implementing an alternative news feed as a dropdown and leaving the exiting one for those who like that style. Seems like a simple and well contained addition.

Seth says
nathan 2016-05-23 10:25:21 [item 20865#52300]
1. Chat rework fixing remaining issues carried over from original plugin ~ 14 hrs
2. Add @person tagging like FB has ~ 6 hrs
3. Add alternative news dropdown ~ 2 hrs

Now, what else is needed to Monetize TD’s? Clearly things in the area of wizard configuration and TD proliferation, but exactly what?

 
Seth 2016-05-23 10:38:52 [item 20865#52301]
well i think the “monitozation” (survival) of TD’s is mostly a social matter … very little of it is technical.   however the technology needs to be at least as good as that which is already easily available.  above i have listed the places where that is not the case.  #4 however is part technical and part social. 
nathan 2016-05-23 10:43:11 [item 20865#52302]
Well #4 is actually in good shape. Not perhaps for your own javascript skills, but for average javascript developers both the doc I have in place and the ease with which plugins can be added that can do most anything is equal to or exceeds the majority of extensible software out there. I use lots of extensible software, and have in this project, and how they work is similar or worse than what we have.
Seth 2016-05-23 10:50:42 [item 20865#52303]
well i expect that technically it may well be in good shape.   but the fact that development is not being shared proves that this is primarily a social matter.   in fact the only other developer here, exclusive of you yourself, demonstrably has no instructions in how to affect the development … and all inquiries into same have been ignored by you (see “(private thought)” for example)  ← again a social matter. 
nathan 2016-05-24 11:16:37 [item 20865#52342]
Don’t think I have ignored anything I have actually seen. Of course, that is my biggest need here, the ability for you to tag me when something is for me so I don’t have to read through 30 days of backlog to see if my name was mentioned sometime, somewhere.  
well i’m totally with you on notifying people to bring things to their attention.   i started doing it after your mention … search for “[notify” .    another think that is needed is for the new news to actually go back in history as far as one need to go, probably by paging … currently, even thought it says you can go back a year, you can only go back X number of items.  

Seth says
moved here from where it would not be remembered
 
nathan 2016-05-24 10:57:44 [item 20957#52338]
As far as how and where things are organized … that’s not really my area but the owner of the domains area.  I have organized all the API stuff under group graph api. Clearly the other “developer related” stuff you mention should not be in group admin because the administrators of a domain are rarely developers and stuff at that level would confuse them and get them in serious trouble.

There is developer stuff in tiggerandhobbs and in unit tests and in library, some of it only available to high level people or in back rooms. 
well i can see a group just for developer tools as separate from the group for administrators.   but the same cooperation and evolution applies now to two groups.  it should propogate and update and evolve.   thing is we don’t want to fragment this unnecessarily … more groups to propogate and control just gets in our way. 

so let’s say we have the following to propogate … thinking quite out loud ...
  1. administrators
  2. developers
  3. documentation
things in places like  tiggerandhobbs and unit tests wold need to be moved into one of those to get manifested to propagate and evolve.

seems to me that library would be under developers … but it could be a separate group.
 

Seth says
nathan 2016-05-24 10:28:31 [item 20957#52331]
However, that would have to be done in the “approved script”. The argument to plugin cannot be a script on another domain or your right back in the boat of anyone being able to run any code they want anywhere the thought is displayed. There is always that extra stub to keep things safe. No system I know of allows general users to put <script> tags in displayed content. That is always reserved for owners of the larger content base and developers.
Seth 2016-05-24 10:32:32 [item 20957#52334]
ok so that is clear.    But where are these scripts to be put?  And what kind of access is provided to them … for example there might be a scipt that only special people wan put in their thoughts and comments, but others do not have access to address them.
nathan 2016-05-24 10:34:56 [item 20957#52335]
Well, you and I pretty well covered all of that in prior communications. I realize you won’t remember all that, but interestingly the gist of it is out there in thoughts. Just needs to be coalesced into some common doc somehow.  
Seth 2016-05-24 10:50:07 [item 20957#52336]
one time you provided some scripting directories and even some tools for an administrator to access and maintain them.  however when i went to look for that facility, i could not find it.   What happened to it?  Point is we need to build the administrators group so that it does provide the tools necessary for a domain to maintain and configure itself quite independent of itinerant developers … and those tools need to propagated to new TDs with provisions for them to evolve with the system.  The tools and the doc should be tagged so that anybody can find or remember them.   This scripting access is just one of those features.
 
Seth 2016-05-24 10:59:26 [item 20865#52339]
nathan Yes. That is exactly my item 20865#52229 # 3
Seth 2016-05-24 11:00:55 [item 20865#52340]
yessmug

which brings up the almost urgent need to move trains.
nathan 2016-05-24 11:12:23 [item 20865#52341]
Yea, I guess you mean move this conversation to somewhere. That is always the challenge and even more so here in TD’s. I can never figure out where to put stuff. It’s just a big pile file here.  
Seth 2016-05-24 11:39:25 [item 20865#52343]
well specifically i meant the ability to move trains from one thought to another just like we can move thoughts from one group to another.   see the redesign of comments which incidentally you were tagged in. 

different people are going to focus and organize and remember things differently.   i almost never loose or forget stuff that i have represented here and tagged and organized … but  i notice that you do … perhaps because your focus and organization is more internal to yourself rather than being represented in the plane of the thoughts here at  fbi themselves.  Obviously we need to evolve in directions that enhance both ways of thinking here … and not sacrifice one in favor of the other. 
nathan 2016-05-24 11:46:41 [item 20865#52345]
Yes. I can’t effectively use the external tagging system you have here. It does not fit my mental model. I have tried using it many times but at best the tagging detoriates into a useless jumble.

What I would use is tags in text if they had intellisense auto fill. Person tags like @seth and hash tags like #abouttagging and of course, bamtags. If I could put # and start typing and a list of already used tags popped up to chose from that could work … and of course tag rooms for all of those.
hmmm … tagging in text might work that way … that is pretty much the way twitter works, except there you don’t get the suggest list.   A suggest list would be an innovation i think … but it might be problematic in scaling. 

you also need to consider maintenance … revising, editing, deleting … that is not just something that you can depreciate.   sometimes tags need to be maintain even when one does not have access to editing the content of a thought … we have always had the ability to tag other people’s thought.  

you can still have the suggest list and keep all the other features of tagging by keeping them separate from the body of the thought.

Mark de LA says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-05-24 13:09:20 [item 20865#52350]
FYI, Whatever algorithm Google uses for it’s search works best for me.  I can even forget a word & usually within 3 or 4 searches find a word that gets me there.  For example I had forgotten the word dystopia the other day – I knew such a word existed to describe some kinds of post-apocalyptic societies & found the word easily. Our current general search is not useful for me.  Tags work best for me as well. The rules about special characters due to your regex frustrate some of my searches.
I suspect some kind of a google site search might be better than the general one provided now.

Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-05-26 13:53:36 [item 20865#52382]
How many times must we explain why a google site search is not something to do here Mark?

However, I have offered several times to do a google like site search for you if you put some nickel's in the bank.  Once you even fully agreed to that, then renigged … but the offer is still open to honorable requests.  
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 13:56:52 [item 20865#52383]
Did not ever agree to put nickels in any bank.  Google is much better regardless of whether YOU can do it or not. Apparently the Steiner Elib does a great job of both. http://www.rsarchive.org/Search.php smug
nathan 2016-05-26 14:03:54 [item 20865#52385]
Yes, you did Mark. If you are not honorable, then you are not someone to work with. Thanks anyway.

The Steiner Elib is static content site. Go read up on where to use google searches and where not to. Thanks.
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:07:30 [item 20865#52386]
Use your magic search & find exactly where I said I would do that or retain the dishonor for yourself! thumbs down
nathan 2016-05-26 14:18:06 [item 20865#52393]
Honor does not require proof … it comes from the heart.  
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:23:59 [item 20865#52395]
Seth 2016-05-26 14:39:28 [item 20865#52401]
which brings to mind that we need to get google to start indexing thinking domains correctly.  need to find some way to get them only to index permalinks. 
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Si says
Too bad I can’t #goodstuff this.

Mark de LA says
nathan 2016-05-26 13:53:36 [item 20865#52382]
How many times must we explain why a google site search is not something to do here Mark?

However, I have offered several times to do a google like site search for you if you put some nickel's in the bank.  Once you even fully agreed to that, then renigged … but the offer is still open to honorable requests.  
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 13:56:52 [item 20865#52383]
Did not ever agree to put nickels in any bank.  Google is much better regardless of whether YOU can do it or not. Apparently the Steiner Elib does a great job of both. http://www.rsarchive.org/Search.php smug
nathan 2016-05-26 14:03:54 [item 20865#52385]
Yes, you did Mark. If you are not honorable, then you are not someone to work with. Thanks anyway.

The Steiner Elib is static content site. Go read up on where to use google searches and where not to. Thanks.
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:07:30 [item 20865#52386]
Use your magic search & find exactly where I said I would do that or retain the dishonor for yourself! thumbs down
nathan 2016-05-26 14:18:06 [item 20865#52393]
Honor does not require proof … it comes from the heart.  
Mark de LA 2016-05-26 14:23:59 [item 20865#52395]
Seth 2016-05-26 14:39:28 [item 20865#52401]
which brings to mind that we need to get google to start indexing thinking domains correctly.  need to find some way to get them only to index permalinks. 
nathan 2016-05-26 14:42:39 [item 20865#52404]
Good stuff. Of course, I suspect that as with all good stuff in these here parts it will be lost in the pile soon enough.  
Seth 2016-05-26 15:11:54 [item 20865#52407]
i added it to the list above, #8
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