If we replace the distinction ...

between the spiritual and the material …

with a distinction between the subjective and the objective?

will all instances fall on the corresponding same side of the distinction? 

Said differently the Venn diagrams of both will be identical, the only difference being the name of the circles.

About the method of thought in this item …

Let me review extensional logic, which is what is being used here.   Picture a  discrimator machine .. in its hopper we drop examples, there are 4 lights on the machine named :  “spiritual”, “subjective”, “material”, “objective”.  If we drop the example called “logical” in the hopper,  then both the “material” and “objective” lights will go on … the other two will not ← we agree on that.   So that one example supports my thesis … but it certainly does not prove it. 

So try dropping something else in the hopper and see which lights go on?


  1. spiritual vs material
  2. limited vocabulary munge
  3. extensional logic
  4. extensional


Seth says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-04-29 08:15:38 [item 20867#51679]
If you can’t make the distinction that is fine for you. Others have bridged the gap. The spiritual is not a logical realm, but it is a consciousness one. Not all consciousness is subjective. For subjective there needs to be an Ego. 
You have introduced another distinction here when you say,  “the spiritual is not a logical domain” ← with which i agree.   Notice that the subjective is not a logical domain either.   So there is no difference there, we could use either the spiritual/material or the subjective/objective to say the same thing. 

Then you introduce yet another,  consciousness … well obviously consciousness is subjective ← there can be no doubt about that.  So there as well we can use either distinction to separate that which is conscious from that which is not … the conscious ones are subjective. 

… er, except you go on to say, that not all consciousness is subjective.   Can you point out an instance of consciousness that is not subjective? 

What do you really mean by “there needs to be an ego” ?  Asking “what is and is not my ego” seams to me to be the same question as aking “what is and what is not subjective to me” ← is that different with you?

Seth says
Mark de Los Angeles 2016-04-29 09:03:14 [item 20867#51682]
Your first sentence is false.  Two things which are not something else are not necessarily equal.  A turd and a giraffe are not rocks – that does not make them equal.  It gets worse from there.  I go with GW who has lots to say on the subject of consciousness as a fundamental catergory of every ultimate particle (of the cosmos).
Tai Shu commentary P.2625 & P.2693 . Perhaps an Ego (in the RS sense) belongs to the higher animals as a group soul, but is individual in man.  No need to replace words which already have meaning to munge them together so that your other ideas work. 
well it is hard for me to follow that train, for i never used any absurd idea like “things which are not something are necessarily equal” ← where did you get the strange idea that i did?

then too, “that every particle of the cosmos has a subjective side” does not contradict anything that i said.  I know i have a subjective side,  were i a rock i can imagine that i would have one too. 

Replacing distinctions with new ones which are more consistent from a larger kontext is part of real thinking … it is part of changing mind … it is part of consciousness .   i say, “do it if you dare … or don’t do it, to  keep your mind”. 

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