ongoing by Tim Bray

I think the ground is fer­tile. I think the “conventional wisdom” which sus­tains the cur­rent finance-centric ren­tier econ­o­my is thought wise by few­er and few­er. I think the path from here to some­thing san­er will have messy and ug­ly part­s. But I’m in­creas­ing­ly sure that our cur­rent path, as a so­ci­ety and species, is un­sus­tain­able.

I think we need to:

  1. Tax the crap out of the 1% [dis­clo­sure: I’m one],

  2. stamp out most forms of high-leverage fi­nan­cial spec­u­la­tion,

  3. in­tro­duce ruth­less trans­paren­cy such that any as­set whose ben­e­fi­cial own­er­ship can­not be es­tab­lished where legal­ly ap­pro­pri­ate is sub­ject to sum­ma­ry con­fis­ca­tion,

  4. adopt a zero-tolerance pos­ture on busi­ness crime, with jail time reg­u­lar­ly ad­min­is­tered for sig­nif­i­cant fi­nan­cial mis­deed­s, in rough pro­por­tion to the size of the tak­ings, and

  5. roll out a uni­ver­sal ba­sic in­come to deal with the in­evitable de­cline in the pro­por­tion of hu­mans “enjoying” full em­ploy­men­t.


re Simon’s daily “semi-presidential” thread on Facebook.


  1. left extreme
  2. tim bray
  3. simon stlaurent


Seth says
Seth Russell Well it was a no brainier that as our new aged tools of production become more and more powerful, humans will have less and less work to do. The work-force-participation numbers speak of that loudly and clearly and are undeniable. Blame Obama or liberal policies for that if you must ... but clear thinkers will know you are flim flaming us for your own agenda.

I am glad that Tim Bray has propose policies to bring our society  back in balance. Too bad the election will not bring out the edges which are in fact cutting.

Seth says
notice this is not the first time that tim bray has impinged on my thinking. 

Mark de LA says
Worth repeating to the great unwashed Robin Hoodies:thumbs down

Mark de LA says
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 07:22:45 [item 20994#52649]
Pawn Sacrifice somewhere near the end … (couldn’t find the clip so far)

 At one point one of the characters remarks "there's a billion possibilities to consider, more than the stars in the galazy, it's really easy to go off the deep end" at the end the Fischer caraciture tells us "They say there's so many possibilities, but there's always only ever one right move. In the end, there's  nowhere to go."

Watch your RWG churn that one up laughing or watch the movie & grok it.

Seth says
Seth 2016-06-07 06:28:05 [item 20994#52646]
Well this message is usually true no matter who says it.   But when Hitler said it, it was a lie to him … study History and what Hitler actually did and said and his psychology – you will find it was all in his head – he was an extreme egotist although that egotism extended also to germanic stock.  What Hitler did was to sacrafice all of Germany and Europe and most of the world for the sake of the story in his head.    And your mis-association of that message to Hitler and simultaneously to Hillary (as if it was said in the same context) is also just your own flim flamey propoganda  … find it in the original Germainc context of the mid 20th century … it will sound quite different even to you. 

Spock said it better –“The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few” – to me it is just the logic of what happens – “A part is smaller than its whole” ← a story which is true in most contexts.  Hitler’s or Trumps outrageous egotism does not dilute that truth.
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 06:46:46 [item 20994#52647]
Sorry, DUDE – it is all a LIE.  Freedom is the point of the Earth in this part of human evolution.  Communism & socialism will not get us there – EVER!
thumbs down Study history & notice that all socialist & communist countries required FORCE to keep it all together – Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China, Chavez’s Venezuela, Castro’s Cuba, Kim-Johg’s N. Korea, …. Repeat History without it’s lessons & there will be more wars & more government oppression.   
Seth 2016-06-07 06:58:35 [item 20994#52648]
Well it is certainly true , “freedom is the point” !   And is is equally true that, “the whole is more important than its part”.   So what do we do when those truths collide?  Ahhh that is the rubb!   To me it is like the contradiction is the manure pile out of which the rose will emerge rose.  Manifest both ends of the spectrum with a balance between the two.   Choosing one or the other, and fighting about it, is just stupid.
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 07:34:34 [item 20994#52651]
False equivalency – whole is more important than  its part when you are talking about human being , That’s what Mao & Stalin & Obama would say , however …. laughing
huh?   the whole in question is society – not one human being.   where is the false equivalency?   freedom of the individual does somtimes conflict with the needs of the society as a whole.   i am not saying those two needs are equivalent – i am saying that they both exist and sometimes contradict each other.   in each particular context public policy must choose.  always choosing the same value does not work in the long run.

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 08:37:21 [item 20994#52660]
there is no synergy in “society” just a label politicians & sociologists & shrinks exploit. thumbs down
well if there is not synergy in society, then nothing in society has changed since the middle ages.   how can you deny that when people cooperate with each other, society changes?  Watch an ant colony … nothing ever changes … except of course what happens from the outside like for example an ant eater eating the colony.   We have something special going with our human society.  Strange that you claim that you have not noticed.

Mark de LA says
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 07:44:34 [item 20994#52653]
There is no “public policy” indian. Just individuals. 
Seth 2016-06-07 07:53:26 [item 20994#52654]
… but that is demonstrably false.   Wish away society if you actually can … me, i can not … nor do i want to.  But i do understand how a muscle bound ego does tend in that direction.   Did you vote for Trump’s ego?  Would you have been a Natzi?
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 07:58:20 [item 20994#52655]
Lie to yourself & lie to the World if it makes you feel good.  IDK.thumbs down
Seth 2016-06-07 08:03:51 [item 20994#52656]
it is not a lie … i cannot deny society.  that you seem to be able to, is your own affair.  you really should not confuse yourself with me.
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 08:18:26 [item 20994#52657]
Focus dude, there are only people the rest is made up by politicians & dictators to whip the masses & mobs into doing what they want them to do.  RS & even PJ2 had the idea of making things work from the ground-up – sort of a

synergy of individuals” 

Seth 2016-06-07 08:29:58 [item 20994#52658]
yep, making things work from the ground up … a synergy of individuals … is society … it is what is happening.  ← i am glad you noticed. 

thing is policies from the top (the shit that happens in Washington) does effect that which happens on the bottom … the government does seem to have some power …. i would prefer to get that working for us better.
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 08:35:13 [item 20994#52659]
MUNGE on, dude – for some the taste is sweet – for me it makes me puke! thumbs down
Seth 2016-06-07 09:27:22 [item 20994#52662]
well your your personal subjective feelings of nausea are not shared.  there is no common story that you have told which would make me puke about society.   but before you wallow in your puke, you might  ask yourself if you would prefer to be living in a ape colony or perhaps a wolf pack. 
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 10:45:56 [item 20994#52663]
Obviously you like to live in a colony of e. Coli. cells.  thumbs down
Seth 2016-06-07 10:54:50 [item 20994#52666]
NO!  i love to live in a human society.  

why do you presume that you are  contributing  to a conversation when you tell a bold face lie ?
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 11:08:04 [item 20994#52670]
It makes as much sense as your “ape conony” comment – thumbs down
Seth 2016-06-07 11:12:48 [item 20994#52672]
well i do not see the sense of it at all … except of course as just RWG … which does not make any sense in this context, only heat and ranchor. 

if you are in a sensable temprement, i will explain my “ape comment” again and in much more detail and even with examples.  

if you are serious about your “e coli” comment, please explain its sense to me … because honestly i can make no sense of it at all in this context.
I’ll get a tuit Anthropomorphising society as human loses my interest. It is just the label you and dictators like to use to make people & the voters forget they are individual human beings.  A lot of the M$M & politicians try to force individuals into collecting themselves into parties & interest groups.  Such is done with polls & advertizements. The politics of identity groups will do that to you.  Think of those who identify with “blacks” who voted overwhelmingly for Obmas & then consider how their expectations never really worked out.  The silly idea that “black lives matter” but blue lives don’t or maybe it is not PC to mention that “all lives matter” should crisp it up for you, but .. laughing

Seth says

Mark: Anthropomorphising society as human loses my interest.

← here is an example of “anthropomorphising”.   There are plenty more here

it is a representation of something else as if it were human.
That is not what is being done here.   What we are doing here is recognizing that society IS human.   It is seeing the whole instead of focusing on a part.

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-08 06:27:58 [item 20994#52678]
… or making up a whole so you can bull shit about the parts … scoping & scooping 
Seth 2016-06-08 06:44:10 [item 20994#52679]
well your statement that “I made up society” is pretty much the same kind of statement as  Nietzsche’s that “humans made up God” laugh.   Ask yourself which do you know more about … which is happening … which  your particular life is more about. 
substitute “that which we are together”  for my use of “society” here.   Knowing you, you will still  mock the thoughts … but your mocking might start looking more rediculous, even to you. 

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 10:50:05 [item 20994#52664]
Munge on & on & on tuit … the problem is that you just don’t understand anything except your own material … thumbs down
Seth 2016-06-07 10:56:54 [item 20994#52667]
please be specific, or go away.  random unsubstantiated insults just produce rancor and heat … in your self … and in me. 
Mark de LA 2016-06-07 11:06:46 [item 20994#52669]
Read your own writing. I’ve written that individualism is the point & you just declare otherwise. I’ve declared a synergy of individuals is “the way” into a better future & you call that society which harbors criminals as well.  Etc. I think your mind is infected with liberalism. May you get well soon. 
Seth 2016-06-08 07:11:41 [item 20994#52683]
well individualism cannot be the entire point.  you might read what i actually did write about that above, rather than lieing about it and proving how shallow your misunderstanding of what i am saying actually is.
Mark de LA 2016-06-08 08:54:29 [item 20994#52686]
It may be the point for why there are more than two of us – who knows? laughing
Seth 2016-06-08 09:31:40 [item 20994#52689]
well yes, obviously,  it is  true that since there are “more than two of us”,   “individualism” can not be the entire point smugthumbs up.    more than two of us is actually happening. 

Mark de LA 2016-06-08 10:04:24 [item 20994#52693]
Bad reasoning – still munging
perhaps, but now you need to explain specifically why it is bad reasoning.   incidental combining ideas in new possible ways is not to be avoided … certainly not on my blog.

the sentences i wrote continue to ring  true and logical to me … and should even be true to you in most contexts.   in which contexts are they not true to you?  What does your original question actually mean? … to me it is way to vague to be logically interpreted … so i did the best that i could. 

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