How to use or misuse belief ...

 

The more i focus on a belief, the more connections it makes with my other beliefs, and the deeper and deeper i feel its truth.   I have observed this happening many different times and with many different kinds of propositions. 

Is my deep feeling of truth about a belief detectable or shareable by others or effect what happens?   ← I think not. 

seth

Tags

  1. belief
  2. beliefs

Comments


Mark de LA says
Mark de LA 2016-06-27 19:53:54 [item 21074#53581]
It is abstract if you are not talking about objective phenomena. Beliefs are feelings or qualia of certainty about the meaning of something. They are not objective phenomena.
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-27 19:58:55 [item 21074#53582]
I am really not a language expert enough to untangle your thoughts. What I know is that I have beliefs. I can identify them. I can, with the right tools and techniques, change them. When I do so, my reality experience changes. If that makes beliefs objective or not I do not really know.

Most people do not know how an internal combustion engine works. But most people know that they can learn to drive a car and do so. Same with beliefs and the skills you can learn to change them. It works if you do it.
Mark de LA 2016-06-27 22:53:41 [item 21074#53593]
I was speaking to Seth. Sloppy language produces sloppy thinking produces sloppy results or a trance.
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 03:54:37 [item 21074#53598]
How do you know this? Have you tried both and gone into a trance? What is your sound basis for this knowledge?
It is a simple extrapolation of the principles of Ericksonian Hypnosis & NLP. Anyway make up whatever shit you want about it. One could even say that is the basis underneath Esther’s rampages.

Si says
Mark de LA 2016-06-27 18:17:46 [item 21074#53575]
 & does such a “learned abstraction” affect anything  – I think not. Maybe not even Seth. I do know that he has a very strong desire to connect with other people. Is the abstraction helping any?
Seth 2016-06-27 18:37:36 [item 21074#53577]
this is not a “learned abstraction”.   This is a observation from experiences.  It is a gestalt built on actual experiences.   Especially the ones where i write down as clearly and honestly my truths, and then read them back, and watcH how my truth qualia’s about them grow deeper and deeper. 

← Actually i represent this here for its possibility of connecting to some of Nathan’s deep deep truths.  ← this honest representation of my observations may, were i not just a “wet noodle”, help that.   ← which is my best answer to you question. 
Mark de LA 2016-06-27 19:40:45 [item 21074#53580]
It is not about puppy dogs, apples cars chile, wine, a fuck or anything covered by a concrete nouns.  It is abstraction.
cool
Seth 2016-06-28 06:43:22 [item 21074#53605]
when i feel something is true, that feeling is just as very “concrete” to me as a puppy dog, an apple, a car, or a chili dog.   in fact it is even mre “concrete” to me in that it is me directly doing it.   but it is different from a puppy dog in that you (out there) cannot feel that very same true feeling about the same thing.  my feeling is mine, and your feeling is yours.  only that mine/yours thingey is not at all like owning a puppy dog.   no, it is far more direct even in the sense that PR refers to direct experience. 

what i am honestly telling you here is about experiences that i have had.  and sure i have generalized over a lot of experiences saying that they are all alike.  the more i focus on a belief, the more connections it makes in me, and the stronger becomes my feeling of truth about it. 

Have you discovered the same phenomena in your own experiences?  ...or not ?
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 06:52:51 [item 21074#53606]
Oh yes! That is exactly my experience, and an important part to know if you desire to change a belief.

What you say is exactly what Abraham is saying when they say “A truth is a thought you keep thinking until you know it is true”. The reason for it is Law of Attraction. One thought attracts other like thoughts, which generate corresponding like experiences, which attract more like thoughts, which generate even more confirming experiences, until at some point you unconditionally believe it. It is now true for you.  

Anyone can do this with anything, either by default by their random path of experience and those thoughts that end up gaining momentum, or by design, by choosing thoughts and staying focused on the intention until the momentum takes over on it’s own and a new belief is born. 
Seth 2016-06-28 07:17:15 [item 21074#53607]
thing is, that is not the way i change my beliefs.  i change my beliefs according to what happens (mostly externally), especially what i experience that others also experience.  not according to how much i focus internally and my feeling of truth get amplified.

and yes i know you have been telling me loudly and clearly that you do it the other way. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 07:25:05 [item 21074#53609]
Well, when I say:

”One thought attracts other like thoughts, which generate corresponding like experiences, which attract more like thoughts, which generate even more confirming experiences, until at some point you unconditionally believe it. It is now true for you.”

That is all an external process based on experience. At no time is one focusing internally. I don’t focus internally and have something get amplified. I simply have thoughts and those thoughts automatically, by LOA, attract more that are similar. My experience, being always a product of my thoughts, shows me the results of the thoughts … and by that outside experience I notice the similar points which the noticing itself is more thoughts on the same line which attracts more like experiences and so forth. It is all the normal process. You can, if you wish, do another thing that is not traditionally normal. You can deliberatly choose thoughts to get the belief process started and then, barring unintentional focus on the opposite, the belief will get born in you … with no other internal noticing than the thoughts you have … which is a good practice for intentional living anyway.  
Seth 2016-06-28 07:36:06 [item 21074#53611]
well i am different ...

my thoughts do not attract my external experiences like you say, only my external deeds do that.  all my thoughts attract (sans stimulation from others externally) is more internal thoughts, feelings, and internal experiences. 
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 08:08:40 [item 21074#53618]
I treat my thoughts like beings & friends – they only come out into the material world if I do something they like or dislike. Otherwise they can play with me in freedom & without restriction in my own soul. 
coolidea← mehr licht said Goethe on his death bed (or was it open the shutters).
Seth 2016-06-28 08:32:44 [item 21074#53631]
well my comment was in direct focused response to nathan’s … hopefully he will catch that now.

interesting way you have personified your thoughts as beings in their own right.  … “they only come out, if you do something they like”  ← surprise 

maybe i’ll try that
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 08:39:17 [item 21074#53634]
Yes. Treating thoughts as beings is also a Tolle thing. In fact, one form of such thought/being is exactly what Tolle calls a “pain body”, something I have often referred to here as Mark has very active ones. (I guess he pisses them off a lot)  

It is no surprise Goethe understood these things even if he speaks of them more poetically than I do. They are fundamentals of reality and all great realizers have realized them in some form that matches the rest of their life experience and thinking context.
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 09:05:10 [item 21074#53648]
FYI, I have been treating thoughts as beings before you born & Tolle wrote power of NOW. cool .. now a Nowbie discovery 4-me.
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 09:14:26 [item 21074#53652]
As you already showed, Goethe was doing it a few years before you (you were born in 1848 right?)

I referenced Tolle to bridge between something you already know and something you are doing (or allowing to happen as you). The thoughts you keep pissing off (pain bodies). 
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 09:16:55 [item 21074#53653]
Maybe your thoughts are pain bodies, not mine. We can keep going back even unto Aristotle, but why? You rarely tell me something new. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 09:21:31 [item 21074#53655]
The nature of reality is as old as reality itself. I can’t make the nature of things new. What I can do is relate to you new ways you can relate to that nature and thus improve your reality experience in any particular direction you have a desire to do so … but you usually ignore or bash those new things you can actually do … and instead seem to prefer just thinking about old things that don’t work so well and keeping them active in your experience.
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 09:23:03 [item 21074#53657]
Or maybe, just maybe, I have already gone past what is new to you or what you think is new to me. laughing
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 09:25:40 [item 21074#53659]
Okay. Then hand some of that shit down then please, I’ll eat it up!  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 09:36:01 [item 21074#53661]
I got rid of that compulsion along with a lot of beliefs. GW always chose black when he played chess with me. White always moves first & sets some of the direction of the game. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 10:04:58 [item 21074#53670]
Too bad. As both Ouspensky and Thea Alexander indicate, passing stuff down, teaching what you are learning and have learned, is part of the self evolutionary process and when it is missing, it is almost always a sign the person has become relatively stationary in their own journey.
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 10:38:24 [item 21074#53681]
& some like playing guru or knoodle-edge magnet. I grew up with someone who had a lot backed up with a lot of integrity & published & let karma attract it. Methods have changed. Who knows where publishing will take the human race.  An electro-mechanical-chemical existence is not what I am looking forward to from Ahriman nor a totally selfie-Ego solipsism either (Lucifer) – those were the ones offered to Christ when he descended into Hell when they offered him to be king of the World if He would worship them . He told them instead to “kiss my ass!” (Get thee behind me, Satan).  Some will be left behind as the human race evolves. 
 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 10:41:42 [item 21074#53683]
… and some will not. Yea, lets go with that.

(Lego movie quote)  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 10:54:49 [item 21074#53686]
Whatever … the tree of life is open at both ends … depends upon which direction is up for you … gravity or levity have their own pulls … trick is knowing for sure which is which .. or what is down the road in either direction … exciting (excitement & passion) is in both (or many)  directions … 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 11:02:55 [item 21074#53687]
I have a different experience. True excitement, do as thy wilt, the one that is from inner guidance, is very clear to me now. It was not always. There was I time I spent a lot of time being able to tell what was something I thought I wanted, or something that was moving away from pain, or something that I thought should be exciting out of habit or otherwise, and finally, the one that was truly the most exciting in the moment. It is nearly always a single thing. Every once in a while a couple may both seem fairly equally exciting, and then, it doesn’t matter … just two fairly equal paths to the same ending.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 11:37:21 [item 21074#53693]
Yep, the tipping point for action , the tipping point for the next feeling or the next thought is multi-faceted. TR liked lists & anchored good feelings.  Werner Erhard chose the integrity of his word. Most religious systems choose holy texts re-interpreted by living & dead people. Crowley used the Book of the Law & the motto
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law with the corrollary “Love is the Law – Love under Will”. GW & RS said you are only Free if your act out of Love. To act out of one’s true excitement leaves an ambiguity as unclear as other doctrines are about what’s one’s own “true will”.  It is pretty easy to do something & then claim it is one’s own true will since it was in fact done. Rationalization after the act is merely excuse. Crowley used it to lead a drug-filled, sex-filled hedonistic life with occult undercurrents & mystical lure of being a top guru & magician.  Most modern religions break down to follow us & you may get what you want & possibly escape death in some metaphysical way. ← breaks down to a selfie protector with a bit of Zen though.  A fairly rudimentary thread & lure in most of this is “ think some special way & you will get what you want & probably avoid the pain of the opposite”  There are lots of ways & systems more clever at wording to bait the hook & reel people in. Many levels of trance obtain to support the words – some even approaching sparkling bedazzlement of the desires & senses. 
I choose consciousness, unfettered, with the practical power to choose & appreciate the consequences guided by Love & the Golden Rule . 
I’m good with the love and golden rule stuff. I know, by virtue of my own heart, that the things I do when I follow my excitement are also done out of Love. And it makes sense they would because it is my inner being giving the guidance and inner beings are immersed/living in love. What I feel from others when they do as they wilt is the same … it feels initiated by love. There is nothing ambiguous about it when one actually does it … it is clear where the love comes in and you feel it. There is only ambiguity when one only thinks about the idea of acting on excitement, for in that situation, especially toward another, one is only thinking, they are not feeling it.

How one would know in a court of law if someone is really following excitement is not important to me. They can’t, but it also doesn’t matter, for when one truly is following excitement (inner guidance) then one is probably not going to end up in a court of law anyway … unless that is exactly where they need to be to get where their higher being is guiding them. So it doesn’t matter. You could probably even say that most anyone in a court of law is, in one way or another, not aligned with their inner being and is probably guilty, at least of self deception if nothing else.  

I like LOA exactly because it is simple. Not full of complex paths and words. It is a very simple basic idea that easily expands out to allow understanding most any circumstance. And it requires no faith or treatment by others. It is always able to be evaluated by the self, so no deception.

 

Si says
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 12:54:42 [item 21074#53699]
Yeah, I eat complexity for breakfast – not a biggie.  Essentially the question of ambiguity (for others) is unimportant to you. Good for You. It also is not much of a guidance for anyone else. Follow me & ….. etc.
I will also say that the distinctions of the spiritual senses imagination, inspiration & intuition (RS) & consciousness (PR) have no specifics in the external world, but only paths to acquire them here.  Awareness is a really pale sister of consciousness in all of the latter’s splendor.  I liken LOA as a close cousin of NLP with some tools & states, stories and hokus-pokus to go with it. 
yes
 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 13:46:11 [item 21074#53701]
Not follow me. Follow you. It’s YOUR inner guidance. I follow my own.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 14:54:25 [item 21074#53702]
So basically you are spreading “follow your own inner guidance” & that is what you, yourself are doing. Good for you. I do so as well. I suspect Seth also does that. So what? Why come up with so many excess words to say just that?
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:07:15 [item 21074#53703]
Because you are not. Your inner guidance comes to you as what is most exciting to do. According to you, you don’t follow that. The words help you understand why you will get a different result if you do that and exactly what the result will be. It is always your choice to do it. Why not try?   
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:10:11 [item 21074#53704]
Because I am not following you & secondly you haven’t a clue as to my inner guidance. smug
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:14:02 [item 21074#53705]
Silly Dude.  Tells me to follow my inner guidance & I tell him I do &  then tells me “o, but you are not doing it the right way”laughing
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:28:30 [item 21074#53707]
I guess I am silly for having a different definition than you do. I didn’t realize that made people silly.  At least I have explained my definition in great detail so you are not confused even if we use the same label for different things. It is very clear what I use the label for.  

You are welcome to fill in the details of your definition.
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:32:28 [item 21074#53708]
No definition here.
Silly Dude.  Tells me to follow my inner guidance & I tell him I do &  then tells me “o, but you are not doing it the right waylaughing

My inner guidance tells me that , euphemistically speaking, you are full of shit.
coolsmug
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:34:11 [item 21074#53709]
Whatever your inner guidance is, it sounds constipated. frown
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:35:21 [item 21074#53710]
Says he who is full of shit.
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 17:20:14 [item 21074#53711]
Now here is what I just don’t get. Why to you say unspecific and mean things like “full of shit” to my highly detailed and well tested ideas? What is wrong with the information itself? What exactly doesn’t work for you and why?
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 18:02:55 [item 21074#53712]
You might be dense.   I have already answered that.  Basically you have said IOW I should follow my inner guidance, but you are the one who defines that. It is a catch-22 or worse. thumbs down
Well that can be resolved simply by calling it something different. If you already have inner guidance used to mean something else, then let’s just call it “voice of self”. There is no catch. It is a specific thing. It’s yours and no one controls it except a part of you that appears to have more information than our physical minds. There is no harm in it, it’s part of you that sends you excitement for particular things. It’s sure not me! surprise

Seth says
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-27 19:33:08 [item 21074#53579]
Well, both of you, in your own different way, have abstracted away beliefs until they have no power in your verses. Apperently you are born, some unnamed influence determines your experiences, and you die when something decides it is your time.

Alternativly you could choose to believe that beliefs are the structure upon which your experience happens. Then you could be born, pick and choose your beliefs, live that life you design, and die when you are ready to start over fresh with a new story.

Either way works. Either belief proves itself true. It is all life happening.   
Seth 2016-06-28 06:17:46 [item 21074#53603]
well it is false that that i do not believe that beliefs have power in my verses.  … it is really hard to read the rest of your paragraph with that fallacy starting the context.   then, come on, what has that “fallacy” to do with your next sentence. ← don’t answer that question because the connecting there that it sounds like you are making is  total horse pucky.

My beliefs are a structure upon which my experience happens.  (← that does ring true.)  But i am part of something and its design and what happens is not entirely of my choosing … nor can i pick when i will die, unless i kill myself. 
 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 06:34:47 [item 21074#53604]
Yea, the total abstraction of beliefs is mainly Mark’s thing … though you did seem to be flirting with it in your initial thought here a bit.  

So what about people who are in good health who say good by to their families and go up to their bed and never wake up? In my life I have run across two families who have had elder member's do this. I have read many such cases in other media … and in some circles it is called natural ascension. It is the way I would like to leave when I am done with this particular story and though I have not done it yet it seems easy compared to many things I have done now. I know the mental steps required.

I agree that what happens is not entirely of your invention. In fact I would say most of what you experience is based on the invention/design/experience of others. I would say that all of it is of your choosing, either directly or by default as the result of your continuing thoughts.  This is not to say you won’t be surprised. It is not always easy to know the result of complex trains of thought, or even to know that they are complex. Also we sometimes have the desire to be surprised, at a particular time, or in general, and that hides things from our ability to be aware of some things until they happen. Most people don’t even try to be aware of the process of choosing what is experienced by choosing thoughts.
Well i sure am, as you put it, “flerting”, with the nature of belief here … that is true.   Yet I firmly believe in its utility and necessity … belief is, as you put it, quite the very “structure upon which we build our experience”.  It should be practiced in a practical manner, to the best of our abilities.  So i have never signed on to Mark’s mocking and degrading of representation and language itself.  Personal Being,  quite unvanquished by the indirection of the representation of signal and sigh,  is sublime indeed ! … go there if you choose … but that has nothing to do with how we be here together.   Now that is obviously just my chosen belief,  and as such not a useful topic of controversy between us,  for you all are free to live out a different path quite oblivious to what *I* believe.   ← which we might note is one of the primary characteristics of belief itself. 

Another characteristic of belief, which this thought introduces, is that the more a belief  is practiced ,the more it is repeated, the more it is focused upon, the stronger and deeper and truer it becomes relative to the believer.    Now I arrived at that belief not by learning it in a book, or hearing a guru tell me, or arriving at it by logical or abstract deduction.   Rather i arrived it by watching it happen in myself.   The primary examples are  how when i write down my beliefs,  as honestly and clearly as i possibly can, and then reread them, i always see more and more connections with my other beliefs and i  feel my qualia of truth about them increasing.  So i have concluded that  repeating  beliefs makes them stronger.   I think Nathan agrees with that too  … or at least that is my interpretation of what he said about it above. 

Now that repetition amplifies belief is a great thing indeed! … it gives us a lever putting us in control of the very structure of our experience.   But this lever is a double edged sword.   The other edge of which hangs on that other nature of our existence, relativity.   So I conclude, least I abandon logic itself,  that the strength of my belief is relative only to myself.   Which, of course, is not a problem at all … except for the pesky problem of what I am, and what I am  not. 

The problem becomes peaky in that what i am (and am not) is also completely relative to my beliefs.  So i can believe that the manifold of my being is enclosed by the manifold of my dura mater … or perhaps i could choose it to be my epidermis … or i could choose my domain to be my house and all that i control in it … but why stop there,  i have effect in my neighborhood, … is that effect not also me? … and what about my guild and the people i work with,  why should those interactions be excluded from what is me and what is not me.  I think you know where i am going with this … i can arbitral assign the boundary of what i  believe i am anywhere that i can sustain such a belief.  i can easily say,  i control 100% of all that i experience and in those happenings i am God herself.  The way belief works, all that i need do is repeat that belief,  focusing on it with my life and it will certainly become true to me. 

Which, of course, is not even pesky for me, at all.   It might become pesky for you however, should i start defining your beliefs. 

hmmm ...

Mark de LA says
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 12:54:42 [item 21074#53699]
Yeah, I eat complexity for breakfast – not a biggie.  Essentially the question of ambiguity (for others) is unimportant to you. Good for You. It also is not much of a guidance for anyone else. Follow me & ….. etc.
I will also say that the distinctions of the spiritual senses imagination, inspiration & intuition (RS) & consciousness (PR) have no specifics in the external world, but only paths to acquire them here.  Awareness is a really pale sister of consciousness in all of the latter’s splendor.  I liken LOA as a close cousin of NLP with some tools & states, stories and hokus-pokus to go with it. 
yes
 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 13:46:11 [item 21074#53701]
Not follow me. Follow you. It’s YOUR inner guidance. I follow my own.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 14:54:25 [item 21074#53702]
So basically you are spreading “follow your own inner guidance” & that is what you, yourself are doing. Good for you. I do so as well. I suspect Seth also does that. So what? Why come up with so many excess words to say just that?
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:07:15 [item 21074#53703]
Because you are not. Your inner guidance comes to you as what is most exciting to do. According to you, you don’t follow that. The words help you understand why you will get a different result if you do that and exactly what the result will be. It is always your choice to do it. Why not try?   
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:10:11 [item 21074#53704]
Because I am not following you & secondly you haven’t a clue as to my inner guidance. smug
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:14:37 [item 21074#53706]
I know how inner guidance gets to physical beings. I don’t know the content of yours, therefore you would not be following me at all. You would be following your own … absolutely nothing to do with me at all.
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:54:35 [item 21074#53716]
Kewl! You finally got it! thumbs up
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 06:57:11 [item 21074#53717]
Kewl! Let me know how your trying it goes, okay?  
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:59:38 [item 21074#53719]
Wow! I thought you got it. I guess you missed it.  I’m not following you
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:02:51 [item 21074#53720]
yes, and you wouldn’t be if you tried following your voice of self either. So why not try it? It matters not where the information comes from, me, or anyone or anything else. And since this information is about something you can try that is totally under your own control, you are the source, you don’t need to worry about trusting the source of the original information. You are free to try it and evaluate it for yourself.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:12:31 [item 21074#53723]
I’m not using the DNA of your imaginary universe either! smug
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:15:49 [item 21074#53725]
Trying it is using your own universe and evaluating it on your own. Then, you can come to your own conclusions why it works, based on the structure of your beliefs. You don’t have to use anything about me, my outlook or conclusions, or anything. You can try this on the merit of it being something useful to try, and safely because it is only asking for you to do things that coming from you internally, no one else.
Continuous contradiction – needs refreshing.

Seth says
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:20:10 [item 21074#53727]
I guess you could say that beliefs are filters. If you say that WHAT IS is all possibilities happening in that moment, then beliefs are the filters that allow you to see only one possibility happening at a time. Works as good as beliefs are the foundation of your reality experience. Different point of view, same thing.  
that works just as well for me too thumbs up.  

Of course i hasten to add, that the filter becomes stronger and more and more particular (even peculiar) the more it is used.

Mark de LA says
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 12:54:42 [item 21074#53699]
Yeah, I eat complexity for breakfast – not a biggie.  Essentially the question of ambiguity (for others) is unimportant to you. Good for You. It also is not much of a guidance for anyone else. Follow me & ….. etc.
I will also say that the distinctions of the spiritual senses imagination, inspiration & intuition (RS) & consciousness (PR) have no specifics in the external world, but only paths to acquire them here.  Awareness is a really pale sister of consciousness in all of the latter’s splendor.  I liken LOA as a close cousin of NLP with some tools & states, stories and hokus-pokus to go with it. 
yes
 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 13:46:11 [item 21074#53701]
Not follow me. Follow you. It’s YOUR inner guidance. I follow my own.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 14:54:25 [item 21074#53702]
So basically you are spreading “follow your own inner guidance” & that is what you, yourself are doing. Good for you. I do so as well. I suspect Seth also does that. So what? Why come up with so many excess words to say just that?
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:07:15 [item 21074#53703]
Because you are not. Your inner guidance comes to you as what is most exciting to do. According to you, you don’t follow that. The words help you understand why you will get a different result if you do that and exactly what the result will be. It is always your choice to do it. Why not try?   
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 15:10:11 [item 21074#53704]
Because I am not following you & secondly you haven’t a clue as to my inner guidance. smug
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-28 15:14:37 [item 21074#53706]
I know how inner guidance gets to physical beings. I don’t know the content of yours, therefore you would not be following me at all. You would be following your own … absolutely nothing to do with me at all.
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:54:35 [item 21074#53716]
Kewl! You finally got it! thumbs up
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 06:57:11 [item 21074#53717]
Kewl! Let me know how your trying it goes, okay?  
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:59:38 [item 21074#53719]
Wow! I thought you got it. I guess you missed it.  I’m not following you
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:02:51 [item 21074#53720]
yes, and you wouldn’t be if you tried following your voice of self either. So why not try it? It matters not where the information comes from, me, or anyone or anything else. And since this information is about something you can try that is totally under your own control, you are the source, you don’t need to worry about trusting the source of the original information. You are free to try it and evaluate it for yourself.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:12:31 [item 21074#53723]
I’m not using the DNA of your imaginary universe either! smug
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:19:22 [item 21074#53726]
If you follow the Golden Rule you might grok that the continuous lecturing of your ontology needs refreshing

 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:23:09 [item 21074#53731]
If someone had knowledge that could really help me, I would want them to keep offering it even if I were being stubborn about receiving it. I have been in that situation. It can feel really fucked up, and at least not fun, but I would always “choose” to have the information offered. I want to evolve and be the best I can having the most amazing experience I can. Hence, I am doing what I would want done.  
tough love, eh? I say it is your compulsive need to spread ..it around.

Mark de LA says
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:20:10 [item 21074#53727]
I guess you could say that beliefs are filters. If you say that WHAT IS is all possibilities happening in that moment, then beliefs are the filters that allow you to see only one possibility happening at a time. Works as good as beliefs are the foundation of your reality experience. Different point of view, same thing.  
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:22:18 [item 21074#53729]
SSDD Enjoy the taste!smug
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:25:11 [item 21074#53734]
Mark. Your being really obnoxious. It’s not at all funny. It just makes you a bully on the playground!
Your irritating, continuous proselytizing is really obnoxious.  It’s not helpful. It just makes you the real bully on the playground.
angry

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:52:10 [item 21074#53715]
Y’all really deep into believing stuff! thumbs up Hard to let it go, eh? That feeling/qualia of certainty you must surely get when you know.  Enjoy!

UNBELIEVABLE!
 

SAIL ON!
Seth 2016-06-29 06:59:32 [item 21074#53718]
point being it is not,  as you put it, just about me.  were it just me, then i would go with your letting beliefs go like the fish hooks they are.  but it is not jus me.  We are being here together!   If you don’t believe that, as i do, then sure, what i say above would appear as grist for a mock. 

Incidentally i love your picture of Hoover Dam … i’ve never ever seen it pictured that way surprise
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:09:29 [item 21074#53721]
That’s a surreal piece of artwork. Maybe refocus your eyes. I am not sure you know what being is.  I was going to write & yet may do so an item on the confusion of belief with IS! 
For someone who grew up in a household with lots of beliefs to play with & a certain separation from the people outside you must miss having beliefs & probably try real hard to make up some different ones of your own.  Enjoy the glow.enlightened
Not mocking, just saying.
Beliefs are the veil which separates one from experiencing more directly what IS!
However, for some it is the DNA of creating their own imaginary universe. 
Seth 2016-06-29 07:15:03 [item 21074#53724]
i have no idea what you are really saying in response to and in the context of what i said (except perhaps just ignoring it).   Thing is  you say so many things about me that are not even remotely true over here.   maybe try speaking about what your truly know from your own first hand direct experience, instead of what you do not know about me. 
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:24:00 [item 21074#53732]
Yep, probably should ignore what you write since you ignore (or play huh? to yourself) what I write. thumbs up
hmmm … so harming me because you felt i harmed you … is now to be considered to be a application of the Golden Rule?   The old eye for an eye trick, eh?   Do you realize that you have done that about 5 times now already in the last month?  

but me, i can hardly hear what is really going down because of all of your incessant static. 

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 06:52:10 [item 21074#53715]
Y’all really deep into believing stuff! thumbs up Hard to let it go, eh? That feeling/qualia of certainty you must surely get when you know.  Enjoy!

UNBELIEVABLE!
 

SAIL ON!
Seth 2016-06-29 06:59:32 [item 21074#53718]
point being it is not,  as you put it, just about me.  were it just me, then i would go with your letting beliefs go like the fish hooks they are.  but it is not jus me.  We are being here together!   If you don’t believe that, as i do, then sure, what i say above would appear as grist for a mock. 

Incidentally i love your picture of Hoover Dam … i’ve never ever seen it pictured that way surprise
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 07:09:29 [item 21074#53721]
That’s a surreal piece of artwork. Maybe refocus your eyes. I am not sure you know what being is.  I was going to write & yet may do so an item on the confusion of belief with IS! 
For someone who grew up in a household with lots of beliefs to play with & a certain separation from the people outside you must miss having beliefs & probably try real hard to make up some different ones of your own.  Enjoy the glow.enlightened
Not mocking, just saying.
Beliefs are the veil which separates one from experiencing more directly what IS!
However, for some it is the DNA of creating their own imaginary universe. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:12:19 [item 21074#53722]
LOL … what IS is happening on top of your beliefs. Beliefs don’t filter anything. They are the literal building blocks that your reality experience is happening upon. Without beliefs your conscious experience would be awash in a sea of all possibilities happening at once!  
?

Si says
Mark de LA 2016-06-29 08:05:25 [item 21074#53742]
I’m done. Talk amongst yourselves. You are not “listening” anyway. thumbs down
Cool  

Si says
Seth 2016-06-29 07:33:14 [item 21074#53737]
incidentally gentelmen … RWG has now been discontinued in this thought.   Discontinue it voluntarily or i will enforce it myself. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:41:15 [item 21074#53739]
I have seen very little joint RWG here. Mark has several threads of it spinning between his own pain bodies, but it only comes out as obnoxious behavior and not group RWG.

I’ve got some off topic threads going here with Mark. Not sure how to move those in a useful way … it is important they are dealt with where and when they happen or the result will be watered down a lot.

 
Seth 2016-06-29 07:53:16 [item 21074#53740]
okay … call it whatever … maybe it does not look or feel like RWG to you.   but  the fact is  that it is  happening and is  obscuring the focus on this particular thought.   some of the things mark has said about beliefs and their use are very focused on this thought … yet we do not seem to be able to become aware of their connection to this thought  because of the human transactions happening which have not real connection to this though itself.   Let us discontinue that practice … or like you say, move it elsewhere. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 07:57:10 [item 21074#53741]
I don’t yet know how to create a forum where the topic stays in flow. It is something I would love to see!

In the mean time, my using these comments to test out the 3.0 stuff plus helping Mark seem far more important than that any of these conversations be single topic.

I will be happy with you doing whatever you want with the thought. I am quite sure that these important things will move around on their own to whatever thought is active.  
Seth 2016-06-29 08:06:00 [item 21074#53743]
you seem to be coding this as a system problem.  i don’t see it as such.   i rather see it simply as people agreeing to work together.   in this case, believing that we are acting in a way that is consistent with each author’s intention on a thought defining  the focus on that thought.  if we believe that and feel and act accordingly then we don’t need no stinking computer system enforcing it for us.  It will just happen. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 08:09:32 [item 21074#53745]
Well yes, but the thing is, there is more “work” going on here than just a dialog about beliefs. There is the work I am doing on 3.0 and every time I make response I get to work on that. There is the work Mark and I are doing which is a long-standing contract between us and a very important part of our life work together. All of those works in progress are being honored. 
Seth 2016-06-29 08:16:40 [item 21074#53746]
that is fine … and i realized that.   nor am i suggesting that any of that stop … even here.

Yet this thought is important too … or at least to me … it is “work” that is happening between us just as very much as the other “work” you and mark are doing. 

It seems reasonable to me that we agree not to let our work vibrations destroy each other. 
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 08:26:43 [item 21074#53747]
I don’t think anything is destroyed, just a bit cluttered.  

And I do think that an ability like being able to zap comments around, either to other topics, or to side conversations on the same topic, would really fix all this “using programming” and allow all comments to stay fully in context. Why not?
Seth 2016-06-29 08:39:06 [item 21074#53748]
well yes certainly thumbs up  i agree … and i said that myself recently when i said “comments should become just as very motile as thoughts themselves” or some such other wording as happened at that moment.  Even mark said it too.   To be honest with you i don’t know why it has not already happened laugh
Ranger Tigger 2016-06-29 08:40:47 [item 21074#53749]
A stone on that path did just happen! thought 21084
Seth 2016-06-29 08:55:41 [item 21074#53750]
thumbs upheart  … works well … interesting way to test out a new system … kudos!
?

Seth says
Mark de LA 2016-06-28 13:09:20 [comment 21074#53700]
Interesting comment from the cosmic ooze – clipped for brevity thumbs up
hmmm … i agree … that pretty much says the same thing i have been saying all along: that truth is relative to us in that  it is  “the way we approach something” and that has a qualia called “truth” that we “discover in ourselves”. 

Mark de LA says
I like Tertulian’s quote: “I believe it because it is absurd!” etc. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credo_quia_absurdum 
Which I further elaborate as … if you want to have a feeling of certainty (qualia) that something is true which is absurd then of course you must believe it – rationality will not do the job!
null

Seth says

See Also

  1. Thought Where Bashar's single sequene stops working with 339 viewings related by tag "belief".
  2. Thought Outside/Inside VS Belief/Facts with 221 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  3. Thought The Behavior Sequences with 167 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  4. Thought A finely tuned set of beliefs sensing a roll of tape with 158 viewings related by tag "belief".
  5. Thought Belief Types with 138 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  6. Thought Belief preceeding Perception with 117 viewings related by tag "belief".
  7. Thought The Saga ... Beliefs navigate our LOA Swim with 81 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  8. Thought The house of beliefs with 68 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  9. Thought Are you introducing a non-existant term? with 63 viewings related by tag "belief".
  10. Thought About beliefs with 27 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  11. Thought Hmmmmm..... with 26 viewings related by tag "belief".
  12. Thought A Test with 16 viewings related by tag "belief".
  13. Thought Ontologiceously Delicious with 11 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  14. Thought Belief is the Enemy of Knowledge with 5 viewings related by tag "belief".
  15. Thought Questions - an old NAC (NLP) Applet Design with 3 viewings related by tag "beliefs".
  16. Thought edges with 2 viewings related by tag "belief".
  17. Thought Belief with 1 viewings related by tag "belief".
  18. Thought Beliefs with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  19. Thought Godel on Philosophy of Mathematics with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  20. Thought What is out there? with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  21. Thought about: Individual meets collective - comment 58154 with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  22. Thought For those who like to Channel with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  23. Thought Atheism, Religion & Secularity with 0 viewings related by tag "belief".
  24. Thought This insanity has got to STOP! with 0 viewings related by tag "beliefs".