I think that which Nathan calls “his excitement” is that which GW or AC would call “will”.  It is the final spark preceding actual deed.  It seems like a cause. It is that which motivates my being to deed or change whatsoever.  

Nonetheless, most of my day to day deeds are sparked by my habits.  That is just the way the universe has set up my humanity and not something that i will ever be changing in any of my verses.   But i act on my habits themselves, plastic habits, so in a way they are merely an intermediary for my own unique sparking, my “do what thou wilt” . 

this story goes deeper … just key concepts here, not necessarily linear …

excitement spark, motivation, relativity

otherness, insides, outsides, group, supervenience, conscious, unconscious, subconscious

community , food coop, government, biology, ecology and otherness

timing, happening, no happening, otherness, synergy

spark, no spark, motivation, freedom, sovereignty

resentment, shame, jealousy, reluctance, altruism, we, self, rwg, others,

new so, what do i do something for ?

i do not really feel the will of the community (otherness) – nor does it actually motivate me.

hence: rand’s classical virtue of selfishness  and other similar trains of thought ← implies the value is inside me.

yet there is:  a biological urge (a life force bigger than myself) to reproduce the spirit  deep deep inside of just me into the world of happenings which are shared by others ← this does motivate (spark) … hmmm...

← does that story answer:  what do i do something for ?  and does it not establish a relationship between myself and the world.

yet still there is a breathing in and a breathing out … a force from within, and a force from without … which must be balanced into the supervenience.

elaboration by provocation continuation , no rwg allowed …. 


  1. will
  2. excitement
  3. plastic habits
  4. p61
  5. p173


Seth says
TiggerAndPoo 2016-07-03 16:51:28 [item 21106#54012]
I like the way you describe excitement. And I have a different definition of “will”. Will is the force of energy you put into any doing. It is the power supply that runs manifestation. Will is independent of excitement, though when you combine them happenings happen, so you could say that when will follows excitement, desirable happenings happen.

Excitement is just a feeling, pretty much the way everyone thinks about it. The only difference is that most people confuse real excitement with other emotions and processes that are similar, like moving away from pain, and even doing what you think you should be doing, or following a habit that feels good. A mass murderer, for instance, is never following true excitement, even if he says he is excited to kill … it is something else he is giving the label of excitement to … probably moving away from some pain such that killing people feels like relief. Even relief can be mistaken for excitement.
well it is true that at times i have tried to apply force and energy to manifest change or to do a deed.  and our language and culture is rife with stories of doing just that …  many times society has told me to just use my “will power” to do this or that.  a long time ago i kind of gave up on trying to deploy some kind of power to do something that i had a story about doing.  so now i “just do it” or “just don’t do it” according to what happens no force involved.  which is not to say that i just do whatever the wind blows me … no, there is the story that i am telling, the excitements it entices, and what is happening outside myself to which it can connect with.  it is not a simple thing and it is very peculiar to me, i seriously doubt that you do it even remotely the same way.

Si says
Well, there is something that is going on when “you just do it”. Humans can detect it as a kind of sensation in the 3rd chakra region. I agree it is not easy or obvious unless one is very accustomed to doing energy work, like rakie etc. All people can detect this “will” sensation with sufficient practice. Not saying you want to or that you should, only that it is a sensation that is available to those who want to know it when it happens … which is to say when they are creating a happening.  

Seth says
well you seem to have concluded that i am not aware of what is happening the moment i start to do it.   but i don’t believe that is the case … in fact quite the opposite.  you may not have known that GW instructed us to become acutely aware of that moment and i have been watching is ever since.  in that regard i might be the most self aware person you know.  i don’t know if it is “rakie or 3rd chakra region” that i have been using, but i am certainly quite aware of the sensations that happen when i do something.  all i am saying is that, when i do it, i would not describe it as applying force or energy.  using force or energy is more a description of when i am telling contradictory stories and one needs to be forced away before i do something.  in me it is more a process of watching for the excitement to spark the deed, that moment where everything falls into place and the excitement can spark.  of course most day to day deeds just fall automatically into place by force of habit. 

Si says
I wasn’t assuming anything there. You said you could not detect your will power. That sensation IS the detection of your will power. Now you know.  

Seth says
hmmm … i don’t remember saying anything like, “i can not detect the will power”. 

i am saying that in me, when it does happen, “applying power and energy” is not a good description. 

Si says
“many times society has told me to just use my “will power” to do this or that”
”i kind of gave up on trying to deploy some kind of power to do something”

same as “can’t detect will power”.  

Seth says
well you seem to be are assuming that i must apply some force and energy when i do something.   so that when i claim that i gave up on trying to do that, that i am just not being aware of “the force” when i do something. 

but i am telling you that “applying force and egergy” is not a good description of what actually happens when i actually just do something. 

can you see the distinction that i am drawing?

Si says
Well the “sensation” IS the representation in your experience of the deployment of will power. That’s what it is. And yes, you don't have to “try to do it”, you just do it and the sensation represents it to you and the physical experience reflects (manifests) the result of the deployment of will power to the rest of your senses.

Peter Ralston has some good treatments of this if you want more.

Seth says
i don’t know … that description seems to me to be very indirect.   the “sensation” i get when i do something is the sensation of me doing it.  not a sensation of something else happening in some mystical chakra.

Si says
I didn’t say something “happens in a chakra”. I said that humans will have a sensation when they deploy will and the sensation will be felt in the region of the 3rd chakara (so you know where to physically look for the sensation). I have no idea if the chakra has anything to do with the sensation, it might be cause the 3rd is often called the will chakra, but I am not treating that here. Only that you can detect a sensation in that area of your physical representation when you deploy will, if you want to.  

And notice that “sensation of me doing it” is non specific. Where does that sensation occur? That’s what I am talking about. The idea that something happens in the reality mirror is not a sensation of will, it is simply the reflection of what was willed. 

Seth says
well i detect the sensations entailed by doing something and prior to doing it, i detect anticipation of those sensations.  it depends on what i am doing “where” the sensations might be detected … obviously that “place” is different when i start talking or writing rather then when i start moving my legs.

this concept of “will” seems to me to be just an artifact of how we have learned to talk about this stuff.  a fiction of some intermediary mystical nature that does not help me do my deeds.

Si says
It is not fiction. It is a clear and present sensation … even if modern men are not taught how to detect it. Modern language retains valid concepts that were well known a long time ago … but now are only the ideas and the teachings of how to work with all these things are lost … and being recovered.

Much like Steiner lost his higher sight by choosing to drink alcohol then regained it on his own because it then became his own ability … as a culture we “lost” all the skills behind a great part of these ideas in our language so that we could regain them as individuals and thus own them.  

Si says
Seth 2016-07-04 11:37:12 [item 21106#54029]

there is plenty of room in the way i do things to detect awesome amazement between my stories and how they feel and what i do and what happens in me and all around me as i interact with the world … and to learn to interact with those more and more effectively.   that my story has factored out the distinction physical/spiritual which you maintain in your story is kind of irrelevant … to me it seems just different descriptions of the same thing told from the perspective of different histories.  and not something that needs to be reconciled between us.

strangely enough i started this thought and wrote down just its prompt which was an understanding of the change of doing … of “will” as you put it.  it actually was a very long train of thought of which i could only see a vague outline.    and now that outline has faded  from my mind … as it appears i am in a different context … or as you put it “verse”.  it involved things we were discussing just before this thought got started.   unfortunately the news does not go back that far.  could you maybe extend the news ?

Excitement as I define it and will As I define it are  different things. That's all I'm saying and respect to the original Thought. 

I am excited to work on news when I get a chance to do so. It will have lots of more interesting features!

Seth says
okay ... if i am to remember the outline of this thought i will need to use other methods.

Si says
Okay. ?

Seth says
yes   thanks i remembered it

Si says

Seth says
TiggerAndPoo 2016-07-04 10:34:10 [item 21106#54025]
So in any case. You CAN detect the deployment of will as a physical sensation, not just the happening reflection in your experience, but the actual deployment itself. The energy event. Once you are skilled at detecting the will sensation, then you can begin to notice what you do in your being that causes that sensation. This “doing” to deploy will is even more obscure. It can be noticed, but not so easily talked about because it is outside both the physical senses and thus also the words to be easily described. Our language is not very good in this area. But regardless of how easily it can be talked about, it can be witnessed by the steps I state.  

p.s. I am describing what you can do. I am not assuming where you are on the path or what you can detect now. I only know that you described not being able to sense a will deployment so I write from the beginning.
how many times do i have to tell you that i am quite aware of “a will deployment” before you believe me?  are you even listening to what i am saying? … might it be that  you are so caught up in telling your own story, that you cannot hear mine?

Seth says
what you describe as  “a physical sensation, not just the happening reflection in your experience, but the actual deployment itself” and elsewhere as “a sensation in that area of your physical representation when you deploy will” i feel during the actual deed.   i must be actually doing it, or i will not feel that.  

the spark to deed, the trigger,  (that most peopole talk about as “will”),  happens prior to that.  it could be looked at as cause of the deed or its motivator.  i think you my call that your excitement.  i don’t know.  or it is possible that you have not paid any attention to that which proceeds the actual doing … maybe you don’t distinguish that way, i don’t know … but i do … and have been focusing on that in many many exercises for a long long time. 

it was funny this morning … i had an example of me choosing what sparks.   i let denises mouth actually spark my deed like a trigger.  she said “get up and get the bills” and i did. 

most usually on day to day deeds what sparks me is habit … which is not to be confused with good habits and bad habits … but rather with the fact that once i do something and it works in some context, i will tend to do the same thing the next time that context happens.  ← talking about “will” and being oblivious to that would be  like ignoring an elephant sitting on my tummy.

Si says
Well, there is plenty of room for confusion, I agree. For my part, will is an energy event that produces a specific kind of sensation, just like any sensing of energy, reiki, tantra, etc. Excitement is an emotion and is felt like any other emotion, love, disgust, anger, sadness, joy etc.

Will is deployed at the exact moment you begin to rise out of bed. Energy is applied and the happening happens verses just thinking about it in which case the happening still happens but does not get reflected in your own personal reality mirror, but instead in some other version of you’s mirror who does get out of bed. Will is what causes your experience to appear in your reality mirror. It is the energy of the bulb in the projector that shows your story to you through your senses.

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