Bots slowing things down - comment 58917

Navigator says ...
Hey Seth, if you think this is feasible, then show me ANY major interactive dynamic content site that does not require someone to be known to use the interactive features. Maybe I can figure out what they do.

Even most sites (more than 99%) that allow you to comment, require you to be known, in some way, to make a comment. That’s why I rarely comment out on the web even when I have something to say. Not worth signing up, or compromising my FB or G+ accounts, just to randomly comment on something.


  1. bots
  2. RingsTrue
  3. p2pIsDeadOnline
  4. Crusade
  5. experience
  6. guest
  7. factsAreFacts
  8. factsAreWhatYouMakeThemUpToBe
  9. hellYes
  10. memeTag
  11. memeTags
  12. IntelliSense
  13. hashtag
  14. MakeShitUp


Seth says
well, Navigator,  most (if not all) sites require some kind of identification to leave comments.  i have not problem with SiriTD identifying the commenter as much as she can, and ensuring that they are not a bot. 

Browsing is another thing.  If it is a human (sorry @SiriTD) is on the other end of the browser and the URL is public, then the human should be able to see the content with no further harassment.  That is what it means for content to be truly public.

Si says
Then what is your beef with static content? If all you want to do is browse, that’s all you need.

Seth says
not sure what you mean by “static content”.   everyting here is generated out of the db.  and is not in that sense static content.

Si says
But it could be “static content” as long as you don’t need to interact with all the gadgets, if all you want to do is read it.

Seth says

Seth says
well yes … no need for gadgets for guests … except just one, the ability to make a comment … or maybe at least a new thread.

Si says
Well no. That is the big thing. No comments for pure guests. Not only does it require non-static content to make comments, or a very different kind of comment system, but it opens the door for not only robots, but also spam. As you say, any high profile site doesn’t allow anonymous comments, and for good reason. We would simplify our life so much by doing the same.

Seth says
well SiriTD can force a guest making a comment to do a restricted long in …. but just what is  necessary for her to be satisfyd that the agent is not a bot.  she don’t need their email address and she don’t need to require them to make a group and all of that.  just the same kinds of games that are played all over in the blogisphere would be quite sufficient here.

Si says
Well that’s all interesting, and I am not sure what to make of it. What I do know is that right now bots are a significant problem, and real guests are not even ghosts. So I have nearly finished fixing up bots to be an insignificant nuisance, and the rest can be figured out when it is more exciting!  

This thread will still be here when it is, and I’m not doing anything with code that would reduce any options.

Seth says

Si says
Note on current sate.
  1. A great many bots have been banned (except for allowed hole below).
  2. Tag cloud on homepage is now javascript created so it is not seen by bots.
  3. Home page now contains a hidden navigation list of the last 100 public thoughts.
  4. Bots are allowed to follow the last 100 homepage /thought/ links to generic html views containing just the thought title and content, no comments. Author meta-tag is correct.
  5. Hence search engines should now start showing recent thought content in their ranks.
  6. The generic thought pages cause minimal loading on the database.
  7. Search engines are banned from all else including rooms, news, etc.
  8. People following search engine links to thoughts will see the thought as a normal guest does … not as search engines see it.
  9. Non public thoughts, private, draft, back-room, etc., return 403 Forbidden errors to bots.

Seth says
hmmm …

what is the URL for what you call “the home page” ?  Looking at source for or for i dont see any list of 100 recent thoughts.

Seth says
the guest view of comments should not appear on the yellow backgrond … it is obnoxious.  that was one of the features of fab 1.0  … the yellow is only needed if you are acively looking for the news … which guests would not be doing.

Seth says
there should be a protocol for guests to leave a comment … it is an essential feature of any blog.

fbi 1.0 had a separate ability for a guest to enter a comment … i even had a captcha there at one time to eliminate bots.  i took that off because the spam bots seemed to be leaving us alone.  i do not get many comments from infrequent guests, but i do get some, and i cherish each one of them … and i will get none unless that feature is brought back.

making people jump through hoops to communicate with me is not the way i will run my blog.  especially since the reasons they would be jumping thorugh whoops are technical unrelated to the social transaction between me and them … and certainly can be solved with other means. 

Si says
From above -
  1. Home page now contains a → hidden ← navigation list of the last 100 public thoughts.
It is for the bots, not people. It is properly formatted for bots to recognize it as a navigation list (has the <nav> tag and everything). And they will follow it and find “generic formatted” views of all 100 latest thoughts, with author meta-tags and everything, and index them nicely.

You can’t see the list or the generic thoughts. Only bots can.

And as of this post, various bots have been in indexing thoughts 154 times over the night.  
Googlebot only liked thought 2616 however … very interesting!

p.s. you have reached that point where you are no longer reading what I write, but rather are cherry picking words to match the turmoil of conflicting thoughts in your being. Your “rings true” bell is on hiatus.

Si says
I see you are up on your crusade mount, and both SeriTD and I will whoop and holler and cheer you on, and shout your war cry behind you “making people jump through hoops to communicate with me is not the way i will run my blog!” … as you charge off into the dusty night alone to conquer disagreeing foes.  

Si says
I ain’t for or against your crusade. Don’t have a stake it it at all, so don’t fire your arrows my way. While you are out there, you might simply consider ...

Something I notice is that people “step up to perceived value”, weather it is in what they choose to buy, or the words they write. I would personally rather have 10 authentic and well considered comments by people who were writing as who they are and cared about what they were saying enough to put some effort into it, than 10,000 anonymous, flippant, knee-jerk, careless, and spam comments.

I have noticed this even about myself as well. Those comments I don’t make because I would have to be signed in to make them? Would they really have added value? I don’t think so … they were just “reactions”, or “me too”s, or sometimes even snide or negative remarks. When I really feel like I have something to say that I believe will make an actual difference, I do put the effort out to sign up or whatever is needed. Keeps me honest and “ringing true” … authentically being me.


Seth says
well obviously i totally agree with the quoted paragraph.   i too am looking for interaction in depth and not just social chit chat. 

For people to go through the barrier they must percieve value inside greater that the effort to get in.  That is a commitment to sombody else who people who already have deapth and value to exchange don’t need to do.  I have watched that happen in thousands of little transactons on the internet since ‘95 when i started interacting here. 

But the barrier, the extra whoop, is simply not necessary.   Let the social interaction itself be what it be … no need for the system to tax or enforce it.  That is not a fucntion that we want to deligate to the system … that is between us people p2p. 

of course, when as and if we grow to the point where the barrier becomes not just a artificial tax and there is already value that people can see for themselves is worth the effort to matriclate into,  then and only then, does it make sense to make people jump a little whoop to get in.   the point is, at this phase in our grouwth, it works against what could otherwise happen. 
the toothless foodie mixing something up with you

Seth says
Navigator,   #shoveItUpYourAss

Si says
If only it were just between people and people authentically, but it is not. Right now, in the local paper, there are 2 ads for “making money online”. Do you know what they are for even though it doesn’t say it up front? It is to hire people, paid per click through, to go out and leave spam advertising anywhere they can. Where do they go first? Anywhere they can comment anonymously. Where do they go last? Places guarded by social network authenticated logins. And there is millions of dollars world wide being pored into autobots to replace these humans.

Not saying what should be done, I’m not on this crusade, I am only saying that your idea that interaction at a thinking domain will be p2p is long gone and disappearing even faster every day, for other reasons too. Even those little mom and pop wordpress sites you hail to as your crusade holy grail are starting to buckle under the weight of the non-p2p aspect of the general internet. Won’t be long before big brother and Donald Trump play their cards here too … either to stop it in choking ways to everyone, or to capitalize on it. Sometimes, it’s good to be in your own well tended and walled playground, like FB.  #p2pIsDeadOnline

Seth says
i didn’t say anything about commenting anmonously .  i said use the industry standards … blogspot … wordpress … even capcha … whatever works to eliminate spam and pestalence.   but our own signup is simply not necessary. 

if there is not to be any p2p interaction in thinking domains, then i am out of here.  preserving, deepening, and widening interaction it is what is in it for me.   if the opposite is also happening, then we must chart a course through the weeds.

look at the name of this domain,  “fast blog it”,  that was chosen just because it implied that you did not need to jump too many whoops to say what you wanted to say to another.

Si says
Okay then. #Crusade away! Crusades are not good or bad, they just are … another way to have an #experience.  It will be fun to see where that takes you … I have plenty of other things to do.  

… and p.s. I did not intentionally remove guest commenting. Might or might not work in 3.0. I haven’t even done much intentionally with the #guest account yet in 3.0 except to make sure it sort of works enough to log in with. But even FB login is not yet fully working in 3.0.

Seth says
last time i opened a private browsing window, there was no way for a gust to comment, without knowing that they could if they signed on.


Si says
#factsAreWhatYouMakeThemUpToBe #MakeShitUp  

Seth says
of corse if you are on a #Crusade to make a walled garden, then do it in your own TD … make it a domain option.  that would be fun to watcH. 

Si says
As you are still in #crusade mode, you are still thinking any of that has something to do with me.  It doesn’t … it’s only what whips your horse.  

Seth says

Si says
OMG!!! I want meme-tags! I want to put ##MakeShitUp and have that really cool image of a little kid with a dertimined face holding his fist appear here! #hellYes! #memeTag

Seth says
so like #memeTags would be like diy emotocons?

Si says

Si says
Kind of, but able to go big and have your own words on them. Kind of tie it in with a spruced up version of the cartoon maker, a bunch of pre-selectable images, and the ability to drop your own images in for later selection as well as all your existing #memetag’s at your fingertips via #IntelliSense, like name-tags are now.

Si says
p.s. you can un-plurlify a #hashtag with an apostrophe so that #hashtag’s are the same as #hashtag. This pretty much works with all tag/reference types and any punctuation.

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