Abram on the Right Wrong Game

 Good stuff right at the beginning.

Tags

  1. creating stories
  2. loa
  3. hicks
  4. abraham
  5. telling stories
  6. rightOn
  7. kewl
  8. MakeShitUp
  9. hmmm
  10. wishful-thinking
  11. rampage-technology
  12. BetterTruth
  13. OMG
  14. fair-witness
  15. FairWitness
  16. directexperience
  17. direct-experience
  18. abstractia
  19. KeepingItReal
  20. discord
  21. MeThinks
  22. KeepingItSethy
  23. justsaying
  24. Whatever
  25. ThoughtSO
  26. RWG

Comments


Seth says
#rightOn  good stuff null thumbs up.  

but it ignores the fact that you are not the only person telling their story  null null

Seth says

Si says
I don’t understand what you are saying there.

Seth says
well first you have to firmly believe that other people are actually outside of you. 

Si says
I do believe that. I believe that they are not just outside me in a tiny way like another bag of bones and water outside my own in some bigger container called a universe, but completely outside of me, having their own experience in their own created reality.

Seth says

Si says
The only difference is that you are drawing the line between inside and outside at the skin of your bag of bones and water. I am drawing it at the edge of my ability to perceive.

Seth says
#kewl, then how does the story that the other people are telling effect the story that you are telling?

Si says
Not sure of the exact context you are pulling that out of, but in general their story affects your story to the degree you identify with their story … pretty much exactly how Abrham was saying here.

Seth says
what you said of me is not true.   i draw the identity membrane to be just as inclusive as i practically can.  and i do not always draw it the same in every moment of my life.

Si says

Seth says

Si says
There are only two places that make some kind of sense as to where to draw the line for inside and outside … either at your skin, or at the edge of what you perceive. Any other place, as Mark would quite rightly say, would just be a munge of ideas.  

Seth says
so the story that you and the other people end up telling is not just exclusively the one that you personally tell.  
seth

i didn’t listen to the whole podcast, but that part was ignored in the first 1/3 to which i did listen.

Si says
You signed that so I don’t get if you are saying that, or if Abraham said it and you are asking about it?

But either way, all stories are individual, up to the boundary of what each person can perceive. Each person has their own story that is experienced and their own version of what is a common story. There is no actual common story. What you would call the common story is really just a virtual snapshot of what is being shared in common in individual stories at a particular moment.

Seth says
it is hard for me to strongly interact and therefore identify with all the way to the boundary of that which i can perceive.   for example, i know about things happening in the Philippines … i have percievd them … honestly i have … but i can not identify with them, sorry, too far away.  extending my ego out that far is impractical for me to actually do … although i could imagine that i could.

Si says
Yes. I fully agree that the largest part of maintaining one’s reality is outside that persons direct conscious experience, weather it is the beating of your heart and your cells dividing, or a tree falling in the woods in China.

That is also why I say elsewhere that none of that actually needs to exist. All that ever has to exist is what you are directly, right now, through your senses, aware of, and only the impressions, not any actual matter. I don’t go so far as to say this is exactly the model, but it could be and would be just like a holodeck or virtual reality experience. Reality may only be that … a stream of information tickling your senses and all the rest is compiled by your brain, belief’s, and assumptions into the consistent experience, your story, you know so well.

Seth says
i have no problem with that ... it hangs together well indeed … that is how individual stories … and common stories  … work.  

there is however a differences between story and what happens where it comes to common stories or happings that can be shared.  happenings either can seem to be shared … or not shared … and obviously that is relative to who perceives the sharing.   stories are not that way.  each person can #MakeShitUp just as they please … not so with happenings that people share.

incidentally it should have been clear that i said the quote above and that i am saying that i did not hear Abraham say it … maybe he said it later in the podcast … i don’t know … i have not listened to all that man has said.

Si says
It sounds like something Abraham would say … very much so, so that it was not clear if you heard that but didn’t hear it explained up to where you listened, or if it was just something you came up with that sounded like how Abraham speaks.  

Si says
Yes, people make stuff up that is co-created, and make stuff up that is never shared. But there is no real difference in terms of what can be experienced, what can happen. The differences are all entwined in shared beliefs and agreements, even agreements to privacy of what we consciously include of others. Since ultimately we have access to all that is thought by anyone, what we are actually aware of is by agreement and maintained by the beliefs that create the box we have a physical experience within.

Seth says
yep a holodeck/Matrix kind of belief probably could be consistent with an experience  … it is not consistent with mine … i have that belief slider set to 0%. 

Seth says
#hmmm ...

Si says
You can’t say it is not consistent with your experience, you would never know the difference. What you are really saying is that you don’t want to believe that … which is okay, for me that is only a model that well predicts how we can actually modify our experience … our thoughts have effects “as if” that where the way things are. I think that it is probably not how things actually are. I think that our human minds do not have the cognitive ability to hold the concept of how things actually are. The holideck model is just a good one. It allows you to see what you can do with your thoughts to make changes in your reality … and that works very very well once you get the hang of doing the things Abraham said in the above tube.   

Mark de LA says
  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking – #wishful-thinking
  2. combined with Abraham hicks rampage technology – #rampage-technology, imho is talking so fast that rational processes are hard to apply.  Would be interesting to have the text of her rampages to see if any logic exists there at all or whether she is assuming her premises over & over again. See more ‘tubes (*) self identified as such & google the word here google rampage for meaning vis-a-vis rationality. 
  3. good though .. https://youtu.be/0zb1qsVqjwg?t=275 
  4. perception through other media like the M$M in another country like the Philippians is indirect if you are not there.  Same goes for what’s in another’s mind; even if you use fMRI technology to look at the active parts of a brain. 
  5. see point 3 above (repeat) .

Seth says
well okay … that story does emphasize the power of belief to change experience … which consciousness is a joy to behold null null ...

i agree, getting beyond these stories to what actually happens is not something of which we are capable … all we can do is write our stories (common and individual) more and more consistent for a broader and broader context … tag that #BetterTruth and better truth.

… i suspect that at some point holding to the holodeck story will hold us back.

Si says
#3 has no substance. It gives a negative spin without explaining why or how that happens. And if you watch the above video, you will understand how any negative spin simply slows experiece down, like trudging through mud. Please don’t use those structures here. Thanks.   

Rampages are actually designed to not be logical. They are pattern interrupts, if you want to cross them to NLP. They break you out of a thought momentum loop you are in. One thing they are really good for is what the title of this thought says.  

Si says

Si says
I agree, and as I said elsewhere here, even holding to the #LOA story will hold us back. It will likely be superseded in my lifetime I expect, and hope, with something even more useful to experience! … and so on as we cosmically keep evolving.  

Seth says

Mark de LA says
holodeck experience is a theoretical experience about a science fiction TV program StarTrek (or other) media artifact in a movie. That would be indirect about a fictional possibility. Notice where your mind is when you watch a normal movie & what’s reacting to what is on the screen – especially your emotions & what you do with them. Then you can extrapolate to yet another indirect experience about an indirect experience. 

Mark de LA says
I watched the entire movie youtube & the clip ran off the end of the rampage. I watched, rather I listened to it not assuming she was right – wanting it but it .. null .. purvey what you like – in a free world I will comment.

Si says
Show me a direct experience. There is only experience, ultimately it is all you have. Direct, indirect, etc, are just labels we use to categorize our experience as we move it forward. The experience you are having is what is really there and is what it is. Show me anything else?

Si says
 You can put what you wish. If what you put is detracting from the focus I want here then I can easily hide it. If you mix things you want to have heard with things that have unexplained negative spin, in the same comment, then the thing you want heard may get hidden. If you must provide mud to trudge through, you’re better off keeping the muddy comments separate from the ones you care about being here.

Mark de LA says
“Show me a direct experience. “ ← request for an oxymoron rejected. null 
Read PR’s BofNK or contemplate who you are & discard all the bullshit about  who you are until you get one.  
p.s. Abraham can’t tell you who you are. Youtube can’t do it either. GW, RS, etc …. null as a matter of fact #OMG the answer is nowhere on the Internet or in books etc … it is not a theory or an abstraction … not a selfie or an image in a mirror ,,,, null

Si says

Si says
I agree. You are exactly what you tell yourself you are. Never anything else.

Mark de LA says
not even that! null that would be indirect through language .

Si says
Well, I think only that. One may not have a very authentic awareness of what they are actually telling themselves they are … but whatever it actually is, that is what they are … at least so far as a physical entity is concerned.

Mark de LA says
discard language & try again . 

Si says
“telling oneself” being equivalent to thinking. Thinking is what obtains, doesn’t matter if you personally think in words, or pictures, or whatnot.

Seth says

Seth says
thinking is indirect thorugh representation in language (usually) … believeing … well that is more direct … that is something that you do from your gut/heart ← only way i can say that now … maybe later a better term will emerge.

Mark de LA says
My father gave me one doorway when I was ~ 6yrs old – he told me to “imagine you don’t exist” – I couldn’t do it – no matter how hard I tried – no words necessary – words would be indirect to what was so.  Many years later, in Berkeley,  I found the same in a contemplation intensive with PR & a bunch of friends.  Same “result” exchanging words with another in dyads.  I wanted to bop PR upside the head after the grock when I told him I knew.  Such is something you can’t describe – words are indirect & imaginary . null

Mark de LA says
believing is worse that indirect – it is usually something someone else makes up for you or a qualia about a story you make up which may have little to do with what’s so 

Seth says
well like i said … the term “gut/heart” is inadequate.  but we all have a handel of to what “belief” points and it is certainly in that direction.

Si says
Well now mark, I agree with that more than about anything you have said. Beliefs “are” mostly made up for you by others, or borrowed from others. Most people would be very surprised to find out just how many of their beliefs are their own.  

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
Elsewhere I have said I am discarding beliefs more & more these days … nullnull

Seth says
… er, well if a belief does not have the effect of actually creating experience and behavior, it is simply does not represent a slider switch null … necessarily, by definition.

Si says
But it doesn’t change that one’s beliefs, their own or borrowed, are the structures upon which one’s experience is founded. If you didn’t have beliefs, then there would be nothing upon which to generate your experience … you wouldn’t have to imagine not existing, you wouldn’t be.

Mark de LA says
A direct experience does not need a belief or a story .  Thanks for your belief !null I’ll put it on my discard pile as soon as give it it’s due respect. null

Seth says


sure mark … this mountain existed before we named it.

Seth says

Si says
Depends on what you mean by direct experience. If the kind one can only experience in meditation, then yes. If the kind one experiences through their senses, then no … those require beliefs or they have no structure on which to be built. The direct experience of the wind you your face cannot be felt without beliefs about your body, and the wind … even if you are not directly aware of the beliefs, they are there … and that can be proved because using LOA (and even NLP) techniques, and even hypnosis, you can change those beliefs and then the so called direct experience changes. 

Mark de LA says
huh? the picture ? it also didn’t exist before that too. null your point?

Seth says
i’m going to shut up for a while. … woopse sorry … ok now i will shut up.

Mark de LA says
did not say only in meditation – your bug-a-boo?

Seth says
i don’t see how there is any difference in gut/beliefs affecting what is experienced in meditation as opposed to what is experienced in sensing.  both are subject to where i have my gut/beliefs set.  i know that because i used to have my gut/beliefs set quite different than i have them set now and what i experience in meditation is quite different accordingly.

Mark de LA says
suppressing &/or discarding entirely beliefs would certainly be required of any #fair-witness or #FairWitness corps. 

Seth says

Si says
I was asking which kind Mark, because I believe that one can go around beliefs and have actual direct experiences … humans can sometimes do that in meditation or trance states where they first disconnect the information coming in the senses … but it is a rare art form for a human to have those kind of experiences … and mostly they simply become the experience of the oneness of all at the same time … usually called transcendental experiences.

Mark de LA says
… no need to make a distinction about kind of #directexperience or #direct-experience – unless you would be talking about it later to someone who has not had something like it . One can work with the 4th power of the Sphynx to good result. (google it null

Si says
LOL … the idea of #FairWitness is deep into the belief system, not only of human and individual beliefs, but social and value beliefs as well. One in such a place starts with all their own beliefs which make up their own reality, then they add on top of that all the values of the social organism, then they build a super-belief structure on top of that to filter perceptions to that which matches all these agreements. The idea of #FairWitness is one of the deepest belief structrued perception systems possible. 

Mark de LA says
Maybe re-read Heinlein if you believe that! null

Si says
The simplest possible belief system in which to still remain physical is to believe you totally create everything, your entire story, then you can simply experience it with the smallest possible set of beliefs needed to maintain it “as you wish”.

Si says
I read that of Heinlein, and enjoyed it. What I said does not invalidate what Heinlein wrote … but rather gives bones of structure to what it would actually be … even though my interpretation would not be favored by the sect in our times, my interpretation would more exactly match what the sect would be doing, the actual steps going into making a #FairWitness.  

Seth says

Seth says

Mark de LA says
KEWL, you Navigator added your own  #MakeShitUp moment to the discourse.  #FairWitness is what the current news & M$M does not do.  They are the ones with the most bias & need retraining.  But, .. 
(munging away that there is such a thing as the TRUTH notwithstanding null)  ; I stir up the pot with:
null
 

Si says
Mark, your the one including what the M$M says in your story. I don’t do that. I don’t listen to them at all … have no awareness of their stories except the tiny dribble that comes to me here at the FBI from you. If you think they are not being #FairWitness in a way that matters to you, why do you send so much of your thought energy their way? Why do you maintain them?

Mark de LA says
None of that has value to me Navigator – must be a recycling of your beliefs or just publishing more of your #MakeShitUp  propensities. (the theory behind the start of this entire item) .
Someone said: (much more a conundrum) 
P.2536 #43,3 81-5-3-20-12-12-WED (35.32 yrs ago)
" ... Kon P.1753 : each commentary is from viewpoint of its author, whether social, military, occult or whatever, just as with all hieroglyphs, symbols &c & the particular stage in the evolution of the human being - increase in development of self-consciousness comes about but how it is perceived & used by each individual is of course up to that person & improves as his or her own advancement in whatever direction guidance leads her or him.  Happiness with what is to become yields to greater satisfaction in what is to supercede that & so on & so on;  one does not stop counting even with infinity but continues to what exists beyond every category! "

Si says
I would intrepret that as “stay in your own business and pay attention to what matches with you and all will evolve and become better”. (not a munge … I can break it down fully point by point and tie it in with LOA and with common experience)

Seth says
i thought Navigator’s description of #FairWitness was beautiful ... almost perfect … and quite what Heinlein put in his book even though his trained witnessess were in the context of a fictional story and not in a context of what could happen as was Nathan’s.

It is quite clear the reporters and talking heads of the M$M are not fair witnesses. 

I even think Nathan’s description of #FairWitness  is what Mark de LA is looking for.   After listening to what Mark has said about it, I still have no idea why he does not want to align with it.  

Si says
LOL … Mark intuitively recognizes the value in a great many things I say. However, in order to align with me, or what I say, by his belief system, he would have to be “wrong”. He has so much momentum invested in the idea that someone is either right, or wrong, that all the alternatives, and other ways to harmonize, don’t make it into his awareness.  

Seth says
null

Mark de LA says
Who says I want to align with either of you?  You folks miss or munge ~ 80% of my points – N restates things in his always-already belief sysetem LOA .  S while more intellectual munges most back into #abstractia leaving just so very a thin taste of reality for me to savor. 
Now where is that picture of Bozo with his tongue out ? 

Si says
Sounds like the dance of co-creating to me. If you want everyone to get all your points and repeat back to you what you say, set up some mirrors and echo boxes. Or create a religion … L. Ron Hubbard had good success with the later.  

Mark de LA says
Yep – your rwg is becoming putrid Navigator – I post to express myself not align. If someone likes it that is fine. If not – no matter. Seth  & I have been exchanging comments & posts here for years without the negativity you usually express. We’ve had some rwg, but not as underhanded. (Yeah I know you will munge it back into my fault but Image result for finger emoji )


 

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 21532

Seth says
well #KeepingItReal here mark, you and i have had quite just as much #discord and you and nathan … it’s differnt but that is no surprise.

i think nathan is acting  to flip you to your positive side,  and i don’t blame him,  might even be working,  but that is something that i gave up some time ago.   denise just filters you out … a persona non grata … i am sure there are several other people that have too as well.  You may think that shit is all just your own business and doesn’t matter … but #MeThinks it does … we grow as we agree and sync … not as we diasagree and fight … see that working in the world if you dare.

Mark de LA says
#KeepingItSethy is talking about others as if you could mind read or had insight into psychological behavior & were qualified to judge. Both ( seth & nathan ) have a similar but differently flavored afflictions.  I have little problems with others. denise hasn’t had a conversation with me lasting over 2 minutes in toto in her entire life so she started out with some kind of prejudice, perhaps coming from seth null  I suggest keeping it to content rather than personalities & ad hominem,  #RWG ,  #LOA (proselitizing) & preaching your various ontologies & you might have more fun.  OTOH, getting outside yourselves by polishing the thingy as a product & inviting others might shift your point-of-view a bit – who knows? null

Seth says
no you gave here her attitude by some of the tasteless things you said to her that you thought were funny.  i have always tried to paint you in a positive light to her.   but i do not lie … sorry i am honest to a fault #MeThinks.  and yes i do think i have just a bit of knowledge re psychology … from the inside … from the outside … and from the culture.  hard to live a passonate life and not some of it rubb off. 

Seth:  still #KeepingItReal … try to write sentence that are true to you ← #justsaying

Mark de LA says
Your lies are atrocious.  I said nothing to her .  You call anything tastesless that you don’t like – get out your what & when proof about things I said to her or shove it up your ass! You may not like my stand on being human vis-a-vis being a particular race, but that is YOUR prejudice & stupidity. null

Seth says
#Whatever

Mark de LA says
#ThoughtSO
null

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