That place in your being you can go to experience a person, place, thing, or self differently than you are currently experiencing through your physical senses.
In an imagination experience you are constructing something new and the experience is usually only partially sensory if at all. In a MindPlace experience you are experiencing what is there and the sensory appearance of the experience can be as complete and as deep as you desire to go into it.
#hmmm what is #SherlockMindPalace ?
Yes. The way Sherlock Holmes uses his Mind Palace in the new movies with Robert Downey Jr. staring as Sherlock (great movies #btw) is but one nice way to use a #MindPalace. In this manner, he constructs a visual representation of every sensory clue he currently is receiving in his mind and plays them out in various scenarios, bounded by the existing clues, until one evolves as the most useful to his outcome, then, he follows that exact template in his physical reality. This is all done internally “in the blink of an eye”. I have used this technique successfully myself. It requires accessing your own “quick mind”, or as Bandler says “uptime”.
My more common use is more how Sherlock (Bennedict Cumberbatch) uses it in the series Sherlock on British TV. In this technique one creatively constructs possible futures and plays them out for the most desirable outcome. This differs in that there is much less emphasis on current sensory input and much more emphasis on using imagination and creativity to evolve and explore landscape and outcomes. The first is based on all possibilities of what now exists … the second generates new possibilities into the Mind Space. Both techniques share the aspect of then next living out what you first experienced, in the multiplicity of many possible outcomes, in your #MindPalace.
Another strong aspect of a #MindPalace experience is how quick it is. When one goes into their #MindPalace they often experience many full outcomes, the whole experience of them, all happening in parallel, in only a few seconds. Even though the real time span of the actual scenarios can be minutes, hours, days, or longer.
like the other night i used my #imagination to build a #SherlockMindPalace in which you discovered a way using #gaming to have #SeirTD actually solve the #HardProblem of AI creating #qualia of people’s conversations here and being able to actually interact with them herself. i get those kind of “imaginations” or #gestalts or #grok’s myself all the time, but when i start moving in the outside world they have a very distinctive way of just shattering. I guess i am just no #sherlock.
Evolution happens. Even the way we think evolves. Anyone who spends much time around children can notice this dramatically. I remember well what it was like to be 5 or 6 and I notice how differently children of 5 or 6 think and relate to experience now. Their minds seem quicker, they seem to think more in parallel, and they have deeper connections to their emotions and how emotions tie in to experience … and much much less tolerance for being told what is right for them and what is wrong for them … they really are more stubborn about following their own inner guidance.
well yes things change. young children have always been more flexible then us old folk. then too many of the children of today have grown up in a totally different environment and that alone is going to make them different. #IDoNotKnow if you are seeing something beyond that terrain or not … and am not sure if it matters in any case.
however, the #explosion of vocabulary usage that is even happing as we speak here through #SeriTD is exceptional … i percieve it as an anomoly … and very much like how language grows in very young children. i’ll look up and post some #CogSci research on that … might be interesting to consider and throw in the old #MindPalace . ← #Done, see “Vocabulary explosion in young children”
#hmmm → it boggles me how both you and mark are so resistant to the idea that people are different, even just two generations apart, they are different. Both of you come up with any possible reason before you take into consideration that people are changing in basic internal and external abilities. You see that they are evolving in skills and knowledge, but you seem to assume that the basic human blueprint stays relatively the same over very long spans of time.
Personally, I find it very hard to think that the human blueprint stays the same. I very clearly see differences between all the living examples in my experience from the oldest to youngest … and it makes good sense to me that humans should be changing. That each new generation are physically and internally different. We know that this happens … it’s how breeders deliberately create new breeds of animals … clearly the basic blueprint of physical beings does change. So why would it make sense to you that humans don’t change? That you are not significantly different, physically and how you think internally, than your grandfather was? Why explain direct observations away as “the young are more flexible” than just take the literal observational clues that the young are literally thinking faster and more in parallel as they clearly seem to be as they manipulate technology from near birth that our eldest are challenged to … and probably would have been challenged to at much younger ages? Why can’t humans evolve this way? What would be the problem with that which makes you want to explain it away so easily?
i have no doubt that we are evolving … and yes we will see that in our children first. i have no #aug relative to that undeniable fact. but at the same time there is a scale of awareness that can #bias our observations of that evolution. like seeing a very large mountain form a huge distance and being able to accurately gauge how close you are to it. one can be very easily fooled, especially if one is expecting to be closer than one actually is. then too there is a huge stretch out in awareness of different people … even children. you seem to talk about what you believe about the perspective of the terrain as an objective fact … i am just pointing out that your observations are relative to yourself.
What I believe about the terrain is the foundation that creates the terrain I do experience. Understanding that is key to having quality experiences.
Beliefs are the objective component … they are what the reality experience is actually based on, and why it is different for different individuals. Those who want to have similar experiences to others process information in a way that allows them to synchronize beliefs … they have the same “objective” so to speak.
Somewhere along the line humans started thinking “objective” meant there is some same experience out there that all are trying to get to … rather than it simply being an “objective” to have a similar experience when you want to do so.
then too, that things are speeding up is because we are in an #explosion … of culture … of intelligence … of awareness … of what humans can do. somtimes hard to see the progress of our own lives in relationship to that #explosion. i am betting that most people have yet to actually #grock how big this #expolsion actually is … or even be able to experience its #edges in our own experience.
mark … do you believe that we are living inside an #explosion ?
Well, that right there is what I mean. Your striving for other ways to frame this than taking the literal sensory input that humans actually change a lot from generation to generation.
I don’t see this as a perspective thing, like the far away mountain. I am as close to some old people as I am to young people. There is no reason I would have a different perspective about one or the other. I simply see vast differences in their “intrinsic” human abilities … that there would be differences makes good logical sense … that people remain intrinsically the same doesn’t match with nature and natural evolution (or the teachings of people like #RS) … and so I take what I see as my fact.
you really should not start out by thinking a thought which i just told you is false … eg “Your striving for other ways to frame this than taking the literal sensory input that humans actually change a lot from generation to generation.”
you seem to be very close to this gigantic generational change in the leading edge that is your #MindPalace. i also see what i can only assume is the same gigantic generational evolution … to me it looks not so very close and is much more diverse than you talk … and most of what you say can be better explained by the #explosion of culture itself … and children already being more flexible anyway. maybe best to #AcceptAndMoveOn our different perscpectives … after all we can run together with both of them being quite different
A big part of the reason for the explosion of culture is the change in humans. Whatever seth, you are not interested in seeing that. Like you say, it doesn’t matter. Like I started this all with “it boggles me”, that’s all. You have your story, it’s yours.
#btw you talk of “the literal sensory input that humans actually change a lot from generation to generation” …
#inquiry … what changes more … the human babies … or the environment in which they grow up?
iow, the old #NatureNurture question
to me it is a which came first: chicken or egg … kind of thingey. i don’t know how you can claim to have “sensory input” on that causal matter.
I have a rich story that makes sense. And, I take what I observe to be what is. I don’t try and keep modifying what I observe to fit something else as if there is one thing that all things must fit. I simply realize that what I am observing is representative of reality (my experience) and put those things in my story.
It is much less complicated and doesn’t run into chicken and egg problems either. Somewhere along the line humans really started making it all much more complicated than it needs to be … time for simplifying IMHO.
kind of the old #NatureNurture debate that has been raging for centuries … fact is both change … and feedback into each other. i do not claim to have imagined or created the mysteries of how those are unfolding … it is, as i mentioned, a immense mountain on which me little being crawls. perhaps you are different #IDoNotKnow.
I agree. Both change. And yet, whenever I talk about the human being, the template for a person changing, the first thing either you or mark says is reasons why that is probably not what is happening. Both happen, all the time, and what one observes is correct. Why not let it be just that simple?
← #chineseTakeOut with #philosophy
I don’t try and keep modifying what I observe to fit something else as if there is one thing that all things must fit. I simply realize that what I am observing is representative of reality (my experience) and put those things in my story
for me a prsumption that “#2 there is one thing that all things must fit” is not something that i ever thought about until you started mentioning it. i suppose that most people assume that. but whether i do or not, i don’t #grock how it would change how i do #1.
Okay fine … but “the first thing either you or Mark says is reasons why that is probably not what is happening” is still true. You figure out why. For me, the reason for it I stated above is the most direct and literal and fits my observation well. If you have a better, or more complex, reason. #GoForIt!
p.s. The classic way Martins spell it is #grok, but I added your non-classical earthling spelling #grock to the term.
well #okay might be interesting though, next time this comes up, show how the assumption, “#2 there is one thing that all things must fit”, necessarily was involved in what we said.
To be honest I think i do believe the assumption …
… which assumption is one way to describe a universe rather than a zillion #MultiVerse’s . it seems #MultiVerse’s just kick the can down the road … because in what do all the multi verses exist … why bother with that … just go diredt to a universe. but such matters remain beyond my comprehension. i just go with what happens that we can share ← works for me
“#2 there is one thing that all things must fit”
The important difference is that in a #universe, circumstances are dependant on what is going on outside, on the details of the universe. In a #MultiVerse, circumstances are dependant on your own state of being. That is a very important difference if you want to creatively participate in designing your experience.
Also, a #universe is a subset of a #MultiVerse, thus you can believe in a #universe and experience one. It is a valid option. You can also believe in a #MultiVerse and experience either a #MultiVerse or a #universe. But you can’t believe in a #universe and experience a #MultiVerse. Your own beliefs would necessarily keep various doors closed through which you could have experienced #MultiVerse phenomena. You won’t be able to be in the right place at the right time for those experiences to play into your senses. There is a nice example of that kind of thing in the movie Mr. Magorium’s Wonder Emporium (staring Dustin Hoffman and Natalie Portman) … a delightful movie containing many #MultiVerse examples of magical phenomena dramatized as a fantasy so that #universe believers can watch it without having to alter their beliefs.
well yes i definitely believe that …
#3 circumstances are dependant on what is going on outside
Why did you attribute that quote to me? I don’t believe that … in fact, I know for absolute sure that is not true. More than 50% of the things I do every day now would not be possible at all if that were true. I left that belief behind quite a few years ago. Circumstance are always only dependant on one thing in any moment … and that is the state of being of the one experiencing the circumstances. At no time ever are any circumstances dependant on anything outside … one can only make them appear to be so with a sufficient set up of beliefs to give that artificial appearance.
well … er … because you were the one who formed that sentence. i did not mean to imply that you believed the assumption. you have denied it so many times it makes my head spin
but, #shucks … i will take off the attribution anyway
strangely enough that is a bit different than #3 … and much more detailed. i want to think about that for a while … it is quite a bit more tangible …
#4 Circumstance are always only dependant on one thing in any moment … and that is the state of being of the one experiencing the circumstances.
doesn’t follow. you can have a bubble inside of free flowing air … and you can have free flowing air inside of a bubble. but if you think about it the former is easier than the latter.
i think …
that is quite different than your version of the thought.
my experience of circumstances are always only dependant on one thing in any moment … and that is the state of my being as i experience them.
in other words, the experience of the circumstances are not the same thing as the circumstances themselves. for example …. oh #shucks there are so many … you pick one yourself if you actually think (or want them to be) the same thing.
ps: maybe try the moon … i love the #moon … especially my experience of the moon. Too bad that i missed its perigee, called the “Supermoon”, last night because it was overcast here in Renton. I do not believe for a moment that my experience of the circumstances created by the moon are the moon itself. Do you?
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