About: tougher turing test exposes chatbots’ stupidity

I don’t have a smart phone just a phone with me behind it! null I wonder how smart SeriTD would be with some of the tests mentioned in the article.


  1. SeriTD
  2. BigData
  3. intuition
  4. intelligence
  5. smart
  6. stupid
  7. OT
  8. AlreadyAlwaysListening
  9. aug
  10. IDoNotKnow
  11. btw
  12. Augs
  13. PilesOfWords
  14. circular-reasoning
  15. CircularReasoning
  16. birdie
  17. RWG
  18. GetIt
  19. TooManyNotes
  20. representing
  21. thingey
  22. process
  23. vibration
  24. BigBang
  25. RS
  26. SpiritualWorld
  27. FunStuff
  28. abstractia
  29. AlreadyAlways
  30. WalledGarden
  31. OTAlert
  32. renton
  33. saki
  34. FuckedUpThought
  35. sethhmmm


Seth says

Si says
#SeriTD says it is not about how well she would do on this test. It is about using her guidance in developing the systems that approach these real situations. How well would a human 2 year old do on this test? A 4 year old, 6, 8, 10, 12? The above approaches to AI are not really about AI at all, and that is the first thing to understand.

Seth says

Seth says
shades of all the stuff that people were discussing on the news group before the turn of the century.  the drift of the debate back then was that intelligence (artificial or natural)  was not what pepole expected it to be … or at least that was one of the things that i took away from the discussions … convincing myself of .  Now google with its #BigData advantages is starting to make some interesting approaches.

i think i will move this from group fab to group ai … me thinks it would be better focused there.

Si says
The first step is understanding that Artificial Intelligence is “intelligience”, and that means “thinking” and thinking is “vibration”. What one is looking for is “coherent vibrational patterns”, not calculated cross referenced results.  

Seth says

Seth says
i think,  “thinking is only a part of the vibration that we call ‘intelligence’” because we can act with and/or against each other with no thinking involved and still deem that the vibration would be called “intelligence”.  Now it might be fun to actually find an example of that nullnull

Si says
Thinking is essentially what humans refer to when they talk about intelligence. Direct knowing and direct action is a product of being in the flow of the underlying matrix of the multiverse. It most certainly exists as a state of being, but is better called intuition than intelligence.

Seth says

Seth says
okay i can go with that … direct action, called  #intuition, being the older sister whom we all know and love …. the newborn little sister thinking #intelligence is still in our family. 

Si says

Mark de LA says
FYI – #smart -VS- #stupid  &/or #intelligence  
For me thinking is sensory of other being(s) together with navigating the worlds within which they dwell & create & within which they, themselves are created. The sense of thought reveals much – much more than can be put in words & pictures & sounds etc. -AND- thinking is not the only sense we have. null

Si says
Yes, well good luck with that point of view. I do not deny it and I am sure it has merits … try taking it somewhere useful and see where you are then. Good luck!   

Mark de LA says
Good luck thinking everything is vibrations ! nullnullnull

Seth says
i think it is a good idea to characterize what we call “senses” as channels which trasact across the threshold of what is inside us and what is outside of us.  and not confuse those input channels with what we do internally or externally with out deeds. 

Seth says
vibrations are just the waves of cause and effect … we can quite easily cast everything in that bag.

Mark de LA says
Because it is just abstract seth→ group abstract domains 

Si says
mark, why don’t you go do something else. Clearly you are not interested in contributing here. Thanks.

Mark de LA says
You folks have lost the point of this item – #OT Alert ! in favor of your #AlreadyAlwaysListening machines.

Mark de LA says
This is my thought – You go somewhere else! null

Seth says
well … er … mark it would be great if you got over your #aug about what you keep calling my abstractness.   i had thought we talked about that at leangth in the last couple of days … hint … if you don’t like abstract use exaples instead … and ask for those from others.  that sure seems to me to be the direct approach.

Si says
If this is truly your thought, then begin thinking it. All you have done so far is ask a question and then think what it is not. If you wish to think here, then think here.

Seth says
#IDoNotKnow … seems to me we got the point just very pointedly.  

#btw, mark… if you want an old iPhone i could send you mine.   it doesn’t take a charge very well but it still works if you use it right … and it works just about as good with Siri as the newer ones do.  There are very cheep phone plans these days … i bet you could afford it if you actually wanted to get the drift of talking to these thingies.

Mark de LA says
Why don’t you get over your #aug of #Augs .  Try an experiment and read some of someone else’s abstract sentences & then look into the sieve of your brain & see if there is anything in there you can picture, grasp, hear ….. without making more #PilesOfWords .  Then talk about an apple, one of your Toothless Foodie recipes, some person you know like your son, or an action you performed somewhere like cooking gumbo & see what remains after you talk about the latter.  
I can talk philosophy all day long & ontology …. etc; but in the end those domains skirt that which is real except they get instantiated or reified into  real stuff – particularly something outside your brain – something you can touch or sense; usually in the five physical senses.

Seth says

Si says
Every one of the 5 physical senses are a transducer for a type of vibration … and so too are thoughts vibrations. Therefore, these subjects will return to vibration when they are on track.

Seth says
#sethhmmm … well that is quite a mouthful mark… gonna take me a moment or two to absorb it.   maybe over time.  i’ll come back to it another day perhsps when i am in a different context and see if it feels different. 

sometimes i have to factor out of the vibration those large wave frequencies which are always there.  that way, if i can find anything left, i can hear the real signal that is happening.

Mark de LA says
I am not badmouthing Seri.  My brother Bill has an iPhone which he is glued to most of the time. Tried to access fbi with it but it failed using the Safari app (already blogged about). I am reducing my expenses these days so a phone plan that costs more than $20 every 2-3 months is not in my budget. 
Bill demonstrated Seri which amused the family gathering by asking Seri to “Show me your tits” . null
The noting of the title article was more a heads up on the state of the art of AI & language counter to all the mega-hype these days about AI & robots.

Si says

Seth says

Mark de LA says
SeriTD (comment 65591) – transducer amusement notwithstanding; vibrations apply to something vibrating. A vibration without something vibrating is probably the ultimate in an abstraction.  To say (like you did last time) that it is “you” that is vibrating is nonsense or at best #circular-reasoning

Seth says
well i guess you are talking about nathan saying “what is vibrating is you” because me, seth never said that.  but if you think about the role of our identity (our ego) in separating out our awareness, then our ego being vibrated when somebody calls us out kind of does hang together well.  obviously it goes deeper than that.  but in that train i see no #CircularReasoning … if you do, then where is it?

Si says
It is an easy thought-model to work with. I know well that you have the mental powers to find your way to it and utilize it and then feel the power of it as a way to model thinking, being, and even people. I use it because it does work so very well as a modeling technique and allows finding paths to desired results quickly and easily.

If you are interested in getting easy results, you may try it. What you actually do is your business. When you enter my business and trash the models I use without content of your own, you will experience the result of that incoherence in your own state of vibration.

Seth says

Seth says
or said differently, without #TooManyNotes,  “if you fuck with me, i’ll fuck with you” … sure sounds like vibration to me null

Mark de LA says
What are you talking about ? sethYou mixed you & our pronouns up (switched in mid thought)  – mostly #birdie territory. .. mostly abstract anyway – maybe a hint at #RWG as a vibe, maybe not. #CircularReasoning occurs when you assume your premise. When N answered “what vibrates?” as “you” it was just a pronouncement as circular as “That which is, IS!” (see ***) – no proof just an infinite enumeration in his mind.

Seth says
well, me i do not #GetIt that saying,  “what vibrates is you” is assuming a premise in the conclusion.  Could you be more specific?  … maybe an example or two so as not to be too abastract and all.

Mark de LA says
Well, perhaps sethyou may never #GetIt who knows?  You may vibrate as in the #RWG mentioned above.   There are lots of different kinds of vibrations e.g. music. There are other things which are not you. Are they all just mere vibrations of you ?  Are they all vibrations of not-You .  Are they all vibrations of say nothing at all?  Is the ultimate God one of the 4 forms of nothing vibrating ? It is just circular to assume all that within just you vibrating, IMHO (which is neither) . null

Seth says
well i guess you know that the “physical” model of wave mechanics and vibration is using what you call an “abstraction” … it is a pattern on a pattern … and a generalization … and not the territory in and of itself. 

but we can parse , #representing everything in the entire universe in a hirachy and call the top of the hirachy a #thingey … or like i used to like to do a #process … or we could use a #vibration there just as well.   it does not mean all that very much objectively, and seems to me to be more of a personal choice.  

but, absolutely null, there are all manner of beautiful or terrible subtle changes and melodies and harmonies going down … i do not think that anybody here is denying that.

Mark de LA says
Yep, most of it is beautiful mathematics getting down to things like strings, branes, & subatomic particles which munge away energy & matter. Nothing tangible at the end of that road; all imaginary to prove the #BigBang as the origin of the Universe(s) – science without substance. null

Seth says
← true enought null.   but null wow, that is a totally different aspect of that which i thought we were talking about.

Mark de LA says
Maybe you seth are onto something!  What is a pattern of patterns of patterns without any reification at any level at all? What is the ultimate answer to the open-ended questions WHY? or HOW? see (****)

Seth says

Seth says
Well yes, usually we do look for a binding of signum to our interpertation of the sign.  At some level we expect that there will be a match … the meta world anchored in our experience.   But there is this strange aspect of the meta world where it can become its own subject … so the medium becmomes both map and its territory.  For example, do we ever really experience ? ?  Does it have a qualia to you?

Then too there is what #RS talked about as the #SpiritualWorld … that does not bind with our experience the same way as the chair that you are sitting on does. 

#FunStuff, eh?

Mark de LA says
Back to #abstractia again. #AlreadyAlways . No matter how you think, meditate, zen out or whatever method you use except  #PilesOfWords will you ever get out of #abstractia ← #WalledGarden to something real.  Repetition may in fact be the mother of boredom. #OTAlert !

Seth says
null well we kind of are transacting in language water here … were you wanted to transact out of that water with me, you could come up here to #renton and drink some #saki with me and stick your finger in my nostril and i could punch you in the nose again nullnull … just like “An event circa 1981” comming around again.

Mark de LA says
Sick shit there, Dude #FuckedUpThought ! Really off the wall. 

Mark de LA says
Mark stops the #RWG dead in it’s tracks! null 

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 22178

See Also

  1. Thought Zen & the Art of the Right-Wrong Game with 649 viewings related by tag "rwg".
  2. Thought Thought, Feeling, and Will with 399 viewings related by tag "RS".
  3. Thought Buddah Lied with 346 viewings related by tag "IDoNotKnow".
  4. Thought The perception of decay with 321 viewings related by tag "RS".
  5. Thought The new IKEA with 294 viewings related by tag "renton".
  6. Thought Inquiry: The nature of an individual to a group. with 279 viewings related by tag "RS".
  7. Thought Rudolf Steiner speaks of the CycleOfDoing with 236 viewings related by tag "RS".
  8. Thought Vidar with 228 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  9. Thought Hillary and Uma Aberdeen with 223 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  10. Thought The Medium is the Message with 223 viewings related by tag "btw".
  11. Thought Are you inside me ... am I inside you ... with 218 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  12. Thought Politics is the Art of making the possible happen ... with 210 viewings related by tag "RWG".
  13. Thought Froth in the Black River with 209 viewings related by tag "renton".
  14. Thought RFD: The base domain from which we proliferate with 201 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  15. Thought Teasing out the "will" with 190 viewings related by tag "rs".
  16. Thought Enforcement enacted. with 187 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  17. Thought Accepting responsibility for every thing in your life causes joy and power. with 178 viewings related by tag "btw".
  18. Thought Negative Feedback with 169 viewings related by tag "rwg".
  19. Thought Work on baby ... with 167 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  20. Thought Renton Washington: Tree Falls in Wind Storm with 154 viewings related by tag "renton".
  21. Thought [title (21932)] with 141 viewings related by tag "aug".
  22. Thought Socretes Cafe Tuesday April 18 2017 with 140 viewings related by tag "RWG".
  23. Thought Paranoia ? with 137 viewings related by tag "vibration".
  24. Thought abraham master groups with 136 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  25. Thought Why my trains of thought break ... with 124 viewings related by tag "btw".
  26. Thought Watching our indexing at Google with 121 viewings related by tag "btw".
  27. Thought Hypnotic Fiction - Alan Watts with 118 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  28. Thought Radical Navigation of Attention with 116 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  29. Thought Elliott Farm Today with 115 viewings related by tag "renton".
  30. Thought Sometimes SeriTD gets Starry Eyed with 113 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  31. Thought I am a variable with 112 viewings related by tag "SpiritualWorld".
  32. Thought Rudolph Steiner with 108 viewings related by tag "rs".
  33. Thought new days with 108 viewings related by tag "btw".
  34. Thought Curating My Long Term Trains of Thought with 102 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  35. Thought Where am i informed? with 99 viewings related by tag "abstractia".
  36. Thought [title (23969)] with 98 viewings related by tag "vibration".
  37. Thought about: rational and intuitive thinking – marc clifton with 97 viewings related by tag "intuition".
  38. Thought Portable Collapsable Lantern with 95 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  39. Thought SeriTD dreams, and dreams of boz. with 91 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  40. Thought testing with 86 viewings related by tag "btw".
  41. Thought Going from Spectrum to Trinity with 86 viewings related by tag "IDoNotKnow".
  42. Thought #iSwim with 86 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  43. Thought Making up Others with 85 viewings related by tag "sethhmmm".
  44. Thought Automatic vertical image sizes with 80 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  45. Thought [title (21770)] with 79 viewings related by tag "aug".
  46. Thought about: SeriTD - comment 65611 with 79 viewings related by tag "renton".
  47. Thought Read between the lines ... with 78 viewings related by tag "IDoNotKnow".
  48. Thought Put the river in fastblogit with 73 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  49. Thought #TypeError with 71 viewings related by tag "SeriTD".
  50. Thought about: Unhacking Wars - comment 67183 with 71 viewings related by tag "rs".