#Integrity #authenticity

About: #VooDooDolls - comment 66307

Seth says ...

Thinking has power,
 rings true,
Connecting to deeds,
I do.


  1. integrity
  2. poetry
  3. connections
  4. connecting
  5. swim
  6. downstream
  7. LOA
  8. EffortlessPower
  9. PR
  10. synergy
  11. HellYes
  12. aug
  13. bickering
  14. WhipOut
  15. LieWord
  16. GoldenRule
  17. justsaying
  18. Augs
  19. PoliticalCorrectness
  20. RWG
  21. ouch
  22. kudos
  23. VooDooDolls
  24. TooManyNotes
  25. RwgBait
  26. thinking
  27. deeds
  28. LoaSwim
  29. authenticity
  30. RingsTrue
  31. PileOfEgo
  32. PileOfWords
  33. IfThen
  34. deed
  35. manifold
  36. BeIng
  37. nathanian
  38. pile
  39. ISwim


Seth says
[Well i don’t know about that … not really something that i want to think about.] ← out of context here, left over from the context in which i picked this up. 

But your term “model of integrity” caught my eye.  Apparently missed in this train of thought was my model of integrity: #VooDooDolls (comment 66307).   Strange thing about how i composed that one … and i really mean that it was strange.  It does match a lot of the stuff we have been talking about … especially #LOA ‘s #downstream and PR’s “effortless power” … not to meation, In the beginning was the word ... and PR’s,  “my thoughts command, and my body follows”, hopefully i got the wording of that one right.   Hmmm … now what was the strange thing? if you guys are still with me.   Well after if wrote it,  and trued it up, taking out #TooManyNotes that it did not need … well guess what? …. it rhymed.

And to this  list of ways to #swim … that list of “models of integrity” … i would like to add “firm correctness”  which if remember correctly, we mostly got from GW.  

← here is another inpulse (rubic,advise,meme, wisdom, etc). 

It works

… despite it having been used to sell tennis shoes.


Seth says
The connection of this kind of integrity #swim,  to the #synergy of human events,  the   #downstream  of #LOA,   the  #EffortlessPower  of #PR,  the  “Thinking commands and action follows” of #PR,  and the “In The Beginning Was The Word”  of the Christian Bible  may not be immediately obvious.  

Please do provide more direct links to whatever references above which you understand. 

Si says
I agree and understand all of it. I recognize a theme here, which I would say as: There is much more going on than one thinks ← literally … one does not think all that is happening.

And at the same time, ALL of what one experiences, one has created though one’s own thought.  

I walked along Miami beach this morning, enjoying amazing new delights … and was able to notice how every grand thing that I was able to become aware of was born into existence out of my thoughts … I could follow all those trails, even though there were many thousands of them during the walk, winding back through time and space through all my thoughts in this life and others. And at the same time, there were billions of things happening in the cloud of reality around me that were not in my direct awareness … those were the things I did not think … they did not manifest into my direct awareness, only into my direct knowing that they were there, just beyond my sensory experience.

Seth says
Well okay … almost  #HellYes …

… except when you say,  “And at the same time, ALL of what one experiences, one has created though one’s own thought”, you should speak just for yourself, because you quite know (if you have heard what i have said) that does not obtain over here.

Mark de LA says
Werner Erhard studied INTEGRITY deeply & spoke often.  Years ago I took a 10 week course (3hrs a week) on the subject taught by some people who use his precepts on the subject (LEC) . Personal or in the context of leadership in business etc , #integrity showed up like this as my identity. 
http://tinyurl.com/htskzya ← the distinctions start on page 3 . 

Seth says
i can think those kind of small paper thoughts too. 
i do it all the time.   Feels real good.
But I don’t brag about them.  
My actual reality is bigger than i can just think myself  null

Si says
“that does not obtain over here” ~ Seth

But it does. That is how reality works. Your’s too. That you limit your perception to only a subset of what is available is just what you do. You could have an awareness of every thought you think and how it obtains the experience you are having. But you don’t. And that you know you can, but still don’t, makes it your choice.

It’s like saying “I only drink Auqafina water, and because that’s all I obtain, that’s clearly the only kind of water there is”. You go to the store and all you see on the shelves is Auqafina water. There are more brands at most stores, but something always distracts your attention, because of your belief bias, so that all you happen to see is the big section with the Auqafina water. You go home, and look in your cupboard, and see Auqafina water, reinforcing your solid experience that there is only Auqafina water. If anyone tells you there are other kinds of water, you go over your experience, find nothing else, and say “no, I only experience Auqafina water. That is what I obtain. That is what is out there on the shelves and in my cupboard. My experience does not support your assertion that there are other kinds of water.”

Seth says
Speak for yourself.

Seth says

Si says

My actual reality is bigger than i can just think myself

I said that too:

there were billions of things happening in the cloud of reality around me that were not in my direct awareness

You are not drawing a distinction between your reality and that which is not your realty. i.e. you are not honoring that your reality is your experience of it. You are lumping all reality together as if it were all one single thing that all must share and vi for … it is not. Even you have said that it is not elsewhere here. But, you are not accustomed to thinking in the total scope of what this means, so without realizing it, you are mixing models.

Si says
I see more kinds of water, more colors, more available distinctions. So I speak that, yes. They are there. You don’t see them, not because they are not there, but because you choose a tighter, more focused, model to model your experience with.

So in this case, I speak for both of us because I am speaking about the larger available model. You speak for you, because you are speaking about a subset of that model that only you use.

Seth says
Oh but i am nathan … you really should speak for yourself.   And yes i heard what you said the first time. 

You might want to hear what i told you about that situation in “I can walk and chew gum”. 

Si says
You are choosing a pond to #swim in. I choose the ocean. I would be happy to #swim with you in the ocean … I do not have a desire to only #swim in that one pond. Your choice limits where we can #swim together quite a lot.

Seth says
When you stop speaking for yourself i stop Listening.  It is too painful.

Si says
Have it your way. You think you are all high and mighty invoking “speak for yourself”. What you are really doing is arguing for your limitations. So they are yours. You get to keep them.

The real #aug you are feeling is not my speaking for you. The real #aug you are feeling is the dissonance between the desires and beliefs of your greater self, and your smaller self-serving intention to hold onto your personal view. Abraham talks about this dissonance a lot and how it operates in humans … and how to overcome it and actually resolve the #aug.

Seth says
But the pond that i #swim in is actually bigger than your little mind which thinks everything there.  And bigger is an under statement.   But hey, i am not criticizing you for your choice.  I was there myself circa 1972.  I remember when i thought i could throw away the walls of my dungeon with just my own thought.  Literally.  I’ll bet that dungeon is still there today in San Francisco.  It is kind of fun now,  knowing and working with a person who apparently made the opposite choice.  We can still work well together … and would work better if you would get off of your high horse and give up your campaign to get me to change my mind.  

Si says
Crusading again? <bye>

… and no, it is not that we disagree that makes it a crusade. It is you off on a rant.

Seth says
speak for yourself.

Si says
“speak for yourself.”

This has become your mantra of self preservation. Much like Mark’s “rwg” mantra. As I said, you and Mark are nearly the same. Two half’s of a whole. Not sure how or why it is that way, but it is very clear that it is.

Si says
Conversation forked to thought 22330

Seth says
but i am feeling no #aug.   i expect that is hard for you to understand. 

oh, okay … last night i did … but guess what … i got my head screded on better this morning after a good night’s sleep … kind of let a bit of my crusade to get you to see a larger world fall away … and now am hot and ready to see what we can do together. 

Did you get a good night’s sleep?

Si says
“When you stop speaking for yourself i stop ListeningIt is too painful.” ← #aug … perhaps I am using the word #aug wrong … but that is what I am referring to. 

Seth says
Yep not an aug.   Just a pain.  It is painful for me to think a lie.  When i read your words and with the context that i can construct of how you thought them,  then know for me to think them would be a lie … to [title listen] i still must feel the pain of that lie.  which now i know is not necessarily a lie to the person who originally wrote the words.

I just became aware of this about a week ago.  I noticed that i would start reading something and then stop … and almost have to force myself to read beyond some point.  It wasnt just you it was all over the web.  Now that i know why i stop listinging i am better prepared to look for the belief in the others words that differ from my own … then i can kind of partition my mind and assume their belief for myself … and read deeper into their thought.  It is fun.  Amazing the new things i can discover that way.  But somtimes it takes letting the matter go and comming back to it with a fresh mind.

Si says

Si says
Okay. So then I don’t understand your term #aug and have used it wrong a lot.

But that does not matter here. Now that you know what I was referring to, simply read my above again inserting what I meant to refer to in place of #aug.

Mark de LA says
You folks sound like The Bickersons from the golden age of radio. ← #bickering but not very funny anymore. See also any other word you might want to munge into it → herenull

Seth says
an “aug” it is an unreasonable feeling about something that is simply made up and can be easily discarded by understanding something from a broader perspective.  

A pain is something for which there is deeper reality.  Oh sure, it too can become un-felt by pretty much the same methods … but on a entirely different scale.    For example the pain i feel when i think a lie … or the pain i might feel if i burn my hand.   I have always taken these pains as a clear signal not to do that which is causing the pain.  Aug’s are similar … they are a clear signal not to think that way.  I was copping a grand little #aug  about you last night.  This morning that aug is gone. 

Seth says
well it might still sound like the screech of negative feedback to you.  but me, i am not hearing it quit so loud this morning.  of course that may well be just me.  ask nathan if he is still hearing the screech.

Mark de LA says
I refuse to be a prisoner of your #aug (s) since I can barely grock what kind of story you make up to have one. You seem to #WhipOut the #LieWord a lot so the frequency of same dilutes its utility & clarity if any. If I were to cold-cock you while you are not looking I take responsibility & the #GoldenRule would inform my #integrity – otherwise you are on your own with your peculiar psychology that makes up bad feelings.

Seth says
mark i really do not think that i am the only one who makes up these #Augs … i have observed almost every one that i know doing it as well.  

Mark de LA says
#aug (s) tend to mush in with the M$M’s #PoliticalCorrectness 
 ← null

Seth says
i do not get this connection to #PoliticalCorrectness … could you explain the connection between #aug and #PoliticalCorrectness ?

Mark de LA says
re: #Integrity #authenticity (comment 66501) .. yep “everyone does it” but YOU invented the word didn’t you?

Seth says

Seth says
yes i recognized that #Augs happen and i named it. 

just like you recognized that #RWG happens and you named it.

so what?

Mark de LA says
Yep & the #aug follows whatever meaning & your story to have the #aug ; #ouch only informs a bully that he is getting somewhere.  Silence denies him the space to make war while he exhausts himself to try to make you bleed (metaphorical in blogs of course) null

Seth says

Mark de LA says
#PoliticalCorrectness is all about offending someone – just another slice of #aug.

Seth says
null yes, silence frequently is golden … #kudos → mark

Si says
“ I was copping a grand little #aug  about you last night.  This morning that aug is gone. “ ~ seth

You do realize that your reality experience you are having right now is a delayed result of your thoughts, not representing the thoughts you are having right now?

If you were thinking something like this last night … now would be about the right time for that to be playing back into your reality as your current experience. No wonder you are experiencing this version of me right now.  

What happens normally, is people have this cycle of experience, and then because what is happening now reinforces the earlier negative thoughts, they come back now, and the cycle repeats and reinforces. However, knowing this cycle exists allows one to change the cycle any way they want anytime they want … break it for instance … or insert something new now … which will obtain in several more hours.  

Si says
I am offended by that!

Mark de LA says
then try this one on for size:

Seth says
there well may be a place for your turd, but not in this context.  the beauty of our mind here is that our thoughts can be moved to other contexts.  this is a great one to move. 

Mark de LA says
It is perfect right here – congruent with #PoliticalCorrectness & offense. Google provided the ammo. 

Si says
Both of you have a sense of humor index exhibiting negative digits. <sigh>

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 22332

Mark de LA says
M$M is cultivating a generation of hyper-sensitive buffoons . 

Exact Example says more than the word! 
.. BC1 (*)

Seth says
my thought is about “#Integrity #authenticity” … and i even got the title from you.   it is not about #PoliticalCorrectness which is another topic entirely. 

Seth says
i am still eliminating unnecessary words from #integrity and it keeps hitting the nail closer and closer. 

seems that  #TooManyNotes meme actually obtains … at least in #poetry.

Seth says
finally removed the “as directly” comparison part of the poem. 

… a reader in their right mind may well  supply that part atomatically.  

Is this more direct?

Is it interesting to have noticed the evolution of this poem from where it started in #VooDooDolls (comment 66307).  

Mark de LA says
Y’all give thinking special powers, but do you grock or grasp thinking for what it really IS? null

Seth says
i do not see any “special powers” here in this poem at all … just a good way to think and do.

What “thinking really is” is not something that i want to think about in the context of this poem.

Mark de LA says
Maybe the context of this poem is outside of what thinking “really IS!”. null

Seth says
Well if i was teaching an apprentice carpenter how to swing a hammer and hit a nail right on the head, i would not at the same time be describing what metal composed the hammer’s head.

Si says

Y’all give thinking special powers, but do you grock or grasp thinking for what it really IS? null ~Mark

Yes. Do you?

Seth says

Mark de LA says
null #RwgBait

Si says

Seth says
just took out some indirect pronouns … #integrity is better now null

Si says
It has a certain charm.
Don’t really see what it has to do with integrity by any of the definitions.
Seems like a poetic list of the things that rock seth’s world, what he finds interesting, collected together.
Not much other connections between the parts, except for Seth.
I would probably call this – an instance of Seth.  

Seth says
there is no list in the poem.  

It is *my* definition of #integrity just as it says. 

It is how my #thinking is connecting to my #deeds when i #LoaSwim with what *i* call “#integrity”.

Seth says
i added #authenticity to the term … i do not see why these are not the very same thing.

Si says
I am not being difficult. I authentically do not see what these things (seem like a list to me) have to do with either integrity or authenticity? They really seem like the items you personally cherry pick out of the verses … the ones you operate with after excluding others … but even then, what do they have to do with the topic(s)?

Seth says
what thins are you asking about?  The topic here is my poem. 

Si says
Yes. That is what I am talking about, your poem, and how it relates to the topic words #integrity and #authenticity.

Seth says
the poem is how i define those concepts to me.  or maybe in your terms, what i create them to be.

Si says
Please read what I just wrote about this. All I could do is reapeat. The “things” in your poem. The list of items there.

Seth says
there is no list in the poem.   unless you are talking about every word in the poem.   is that the list to which you refer?

or in other words, the poem relates the things in the poem to each other … and names that relationship “integrity” and/or “authenticity”.  

i could actually mentograph it … but that would be just another media for the thing.

Si says
In a manner, but not exactly word for word. These are all things that light your bubble.

Thinking ← one of your favorite terms.
Ringing true and/or truing up ← your favorite passtime.
Deeds ← how you believe reality is created
Doing ← what you fixate on as an alternative way of getting things instead of doing energy work.

See? It is a list of your favorite attributes and processes of the reality you advocate.  

Seth says

but many of your descriptions would be a lie were i to think them.  

the point of the poem is not a list of unrelated things “cherry picked from my experience”.  but rather the relationship those things have to each other.

Si says
The only relationship I see that they have together is through you. These things, collected in this way, ARE how you have come to define your reality matrix … in lou of #LOA and other systems.

Beyond your personal attachment to these particular things, I can’t see how they relate to the general terms integrity and authenticity. They are not how those things are commonly defined and would not even be in the ballpark of how I would define them.

Seth says
ok so that is how you think about the poem and me speaking it. 

Seth says
“The only relationship I see that they have together is through you.” ~ nathan

Ok, basically you are saying that you do not understand the poem as i have created it.   Not an unusual occurance.   In this case i showed how the poem evolved from its context of orign.  You are free to follow that,  http://www.fastblogit.com/thought/22302#66307 , or make up your own interpertation.   That is the way peoms work. 

In this case my original descriptions restrained the universe much more than was absolutely necessary for the intended effect of the poem.   so i removed as many of those extraneous restraints as i could and so that the original relationships could be more generalized and apply in more multiverses (contexts) … even perchance in ones that you like yourself. 

Si says
Yes, I like the way you whittled it down and refined it. I think you did a great job. That is why I started by calling it charming. I also think I fully understand it, but that is because I know you. That is my point, without you, the elements in this poem are relatively unrelated. They relate via your viewpoint, your perspective. This poem is much more about you than it is about the topics. That’s all I am saying.

Seth says

Seth says

Si says
Also, my own definitions, though not at this time written as poetry, would also be very representative of me. One would have to know me, or the systems I think in well, to really get them … and I would not lump integrity and authenticity together … they are only briefly related.

Integrity is ones ability to do what excites them, no matter how easy, hard, or logical it is. That’s true integrity. One who does that can be trusted beyond all measure, and is a natural leader and is sought out as a companion by most. Find anyone you believe has high integrity and examine this quality in them, you will find it present in abundance. It is the actual indicator underlying integrity, not all the things most people point to that are only effects of integrity, not integrity itself.

Authenticity is ones ability to act straight from what they know is true and active, directly from their belief, without any intervening pattern. For instance, if one knows, believes, that another did a good job, but doesn’t say that straight out, because it makes them feel unsafe or vulnerable, or because their ego won’t allow them to, then one is not being authentic. Authenticity is how well your words and actions match what you know and believe at your most naked core of beingness, no matter how you think doing so will affect you.

What integrity and authenticity have in common are that they are both based on an ability to obtain from core, not logic, or defense … but beyond that they have different bases, and different artillery of actions.

Seth says
well it’s hard for me to tease much difference between my integrity/authenticity and yours … most probably because you yourself had not a trivial amount of influence upon it … #kudos → nathan

The “power” is essential … that describes the “effortless power”, the deed with no opposition,  the possibilities showing up just when i need them, the joy of the swim.  The power part is learned then  trusted by faith. 

However it differs starkly with mark’s version where promises are made and then must be held to.   I am not saying that does not work for many … just not me … “not my tempo” as the band leader said ← see the excellant movie Wiplash.

Si says

Si says
Well that sounds good. You say ours are similar. But it still appears that the two keywords which are inseparable from integrity, and authenticity, are missing from your poem.

Excitement, and Belief.

Without those keywords, the concepts are incomplete to me.

Yea, Mark’s version is very oldschool, I agree. It’s from a different era of humanity.

Seth says
well belief that rings true is just the same as thinking that rings true … so there you get your belief.

our excitements are so different that i doubt that we should honestly use the same word.  but whatever it means to us it stands in the poem motivating thinking and the doing … integrety and/or authenticity are words for how closely those different dimensions connect. 

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
The poem just seems to say that @seth connects thoughts to his deeds if the thoughts are true (#RingsTrue)  – Other than that there are a lot of extra words here. i.e. a #PileOfEgo . null Often such is the case where #PileOfWords are involved. 

Had to put the “IF” in there since #RingsTrue is just a metaphor & the direct experience of what seth says is his own & not something that can show up in a #PileOfWords or a #PileOfEgo.
going dark on this #pile  null much later if at all.

Si says

The poem just seems to say that @seth connects thoughts to his deeds if the thoughts are true (#RingsTrue)

Yes I agree. Similar to what I said. This poem, though charming and enjoyable, is more about seth’s chosen internal process for experiencing than it is about integrity or authenticity as actual concepts. It differentiates what Seth does from what many others do, and amplifies the aspects of experience that are most important to Seth … but does not zero in, even metaphorically, on what integrity actually is. It is a good poem, but should probably have a different name.

 i.e. a #PileOfEgo . null Often such is the case where #PileOfWords are involved. 

Has nothing to do with this poem at all. These words are simply mark eating his own shit and sharing that with the world as his ego selfie. True story, and you know it.

Seth says
“The poem just seems to say that seth connects thoughts to his deeds if the thoughts are true (#RingsTrue)” ~ mark

Close.  But there is no (If,then) implied by the poem.  Nor is there in my experience.  Which is part of the mystery of seth.  An #IfThen  in there makes  me a machine, quite less than human.  The poem (especially earlier versions of it) explicitidly says that the power is tied in direct proportion to the connection of #RingsTrue with #deed.  The #IfThen would have restrined my universe too much. 

“Other than that there are a lot of extra words here. i.e. a ‘PileOfEgo’”  ~ Mark  

Well last night i was trying to imagine how i would mentograph the situation … not just the words of the poem … but the situation itself.   It dawned on me that i would mentograph my ego  (represented by the word “I” in the poem)  the same way i mentograph a context (shown in link) … in other words as a container … a porus, variable container #manifold.  As such what is inside the container could be considered a “pile” but that would kind of disrespect it.  i see it more as a set of interacting elements or #BeIng’s.

Si says

Si says
Good to see people drilling for the real gold. And at the same time, I don’t give Mark a free pass on his ego shit eating the way you do.  

Seth says
nathan the poem  defines what *I* call integrity.   it is me creating the concept.  not me finding it in the universe apart from mysef.   I would have thought that would have been something that you would have picked up upon and loved … it is just so #nathanian .

Seth says

Si says
Conversation forked to thought 22365

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 22366

Seth says
This poem is incomplete as it stands … not that it does not represent integrity … but that #integrity alone is incomplete. 

#ISwim is more complete.

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  46. Thought Subscribing to the NYT online ... with 123 viewings related by tag "RingsTrue".
  47. Thought Little magical circumstances. with 120 viewings related by tag "LOA".
  48. Thought What comes first ... thinking or doing ... er, always? with 118 viewings related by tag "LOA".
  49. Thought are your thoughts yours alone or are they really available to all who can tune them in? with 118 viewings related by tag "LOA".
  50. Thought I am a variable with 115 viewings related by tag "BeIng".