A Speaking Diet - comment 66567

Mark de LA says ...
Well then, seth what can you offer: What invitation(s) can you extend; What requests of us do you have; What promises can you make; What is your commitment about any of it; What apologies can you make about previous posts & Do you have a declaration to post now that will make our dialogues even more exciting & communicative & interesting?
nullrose
Nice! Just a few things there need dropping too.
  1. Never make promises. Doing so takes you out of the flow of the creating moment and reduces your overall effectiveness and ability to proactively sync up with and excite others, even if what you promise comes to be, it will be less than otherwise.
  2. Never apologize (~Abraham). It takes you and others back into the darkness of what you, and they, did not want. Imagine, rampage, appreciate, co-create. Do not apologize … it happened, that’s enough.

Tags

  1. HellYes
  2. shucks
  3. NBD
  4. JustNoticing
  5. swim
  6. graffiti
  7. watch
  8. BetterTruth
  9. RingsTrue
  10. LoaSwim
  11. Trump
  12. integrity
  13. Hillary
  14. MeThinks
  15. OhWell
  16. AcceptAndMoveOn
  17. MyVote2016
  18. RingTrue
  19. IDK
  20. MakeShitUp

Comments


Seth says
To completely realize this thought,  first manifest the oringinal list of ways to think and ways not to think.    

Si says
What is that for? null

Seth says
the context of this thought has been removed from access,  so the thought is not complete as it is represented … er without the list. 

but #HellYes the list is gone from my mind here, #shucks  #NBD … my energy for it dissolved. 

I am #JustNoticing that.  I love null to notice things … it is what i do.

Mark de LA says
The original YouTube is here → no rwg, no graffiti – just the youtube – (of the TED Talk) → https://youtu.be/XCxVqNxe6Pw?t=20 

Seth says
okay.

Seth says

Seth says
People tell me that “never” is a big word, and i tend to believe them.   But in general i too avoid making promises pretty much for the reasons that nathan mentioned.

When i have done something wrong i like to correct it … it is similar to my incessant editing of the things i say here. 

Some people, i presume, do every deed perfect the first time.   But i am not like that,  i can almost always see how to do something better once it has been done.  

So i  like that too say (2) differently. 

If i did it, there it is actually being. 
Now that i realize it,
i can do it better. 

seth

but like i said, that may just be me … just the way i uniquely and (pecularly to you) #swim …

Mark de LA says
FYI, seth If you read the recent post on Werner Erhard’s Integrity & Leadership paper you would realize that he accepts that sometimes you will break a promise through no specific fault of your own (say a terrorist act on the freeway prevents you getting to a conference on time) & to maintain integrity you clean it up with the people you made the promise to – often by offering something of more value to them.  There is more in the paper. 

Si says
Someday, I should actually #graffiti some of mark’s stuff … just so he becomes clear on what #graffiti actually is. Also real rwg. He is clueless.

Seth says

Seth says
okay … but still i avoid making promises … making a lot of promises  is a way to #swim that would get me into binds that are not necessary.    However that does not mean that i don’t commit to something happening.  I love null to get things to happen.   People could truthfully describe me as being  obssessed with getting thing to happen.    But i cannot promise they will happen  … that would actualy be me telling a lie … and a unnecessary bind on my future deeds.

Mark de LA says
Well, without repeating the paper the value of your word increases the more you give it & live it.  Perhaps the Trumpsters believed the president-elect. We’ll see. Someone who munges & excuses just ends up making a pile of them.

Si says
Yes seth. My above was only in respect to an apology itself … which should never happen for the traditional reasons people do it. Apologies generate potholes in the road.

Correcting mistakes is another thing and is more case by case dependent on if the correcting process for that thing is more useful to the future than the revisiting what you don’t want … sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t … and probably most of the time it doesn’t matter all that much.

Si says

Integrity


Common definition: Do that which you think is most wanted by others. i.e. get out of your business and into the business of others as much as possible.

mark’s definition: Do that which does not irk me or disagree with what I say.

My definition: Do that which excites you most to do. Always, no matter what, no matter what you think the consequences will be. That is true integrity!  

Mark de LA says
Common definition from the thesaurus sans MiamiVice → https://www.powerthesaurus.org/integrity nullnull

Seth says
i don’t know … acknowledging a  mistaken action against another can certainly improve my relationship with them … that is in my experience set.  I do not get that it creates a “pothole”.  But i guess it depends upon the other person.  So yeah, i guess i need to #watch out for people who might take apologies in peculair ways.  

In writing the mistaken action can be re-written … but somtimes i am not in a media where that is possible.   To me an apology  is the same thing as my incessant editing for a #BetterTruth only it is in the media domain of person to person interaction.  I have been amazed to see how acking my misdeed against another improved the relationship i had with that person.   no pot hole … no pot hole .. no.

Seth says
and my definition …

Thinking has power
as much as it rings true
Connecting to your deeds
as directly as you do.

… but i hasten to mention that i am still dinking with the exact wording … especiall the gerund connecting the stanzas. 

woopse … sorry .. i am #JustNoticing … i can impove its #RingsTrue if i rewrite it in the first person null

Si says
Yes. The ability to smooth things with another is the one good aspect of an apology and probably why it is still such a prevalent part of our culture. Unfortunately the negative aspect “obtained” by both people revisiting something not wanted outweighs the one positive aspect and in general is the cause for a lot of continuance, and future happenings, of the very things that are apologized for, something most well recognize as a common thing with apologies.

Apologies are not overall useful especially since there are other ways to gain rapport and improved feelings without revisiting things not wanted.

Mark de LA says
.. & left out the word integrity entirely ! (good choice) null

The most subtle form it shows up in might be such comments as “While things may not be great, they are as good as they can be.” We convince ourselves that we’re not free—that our actions are determined by our circumstances, our natures, whatever. But freedom isn’t dictated by circumstances. Our actions are only determined by our free, unconstrained choices. In being true to ourselves, being authentic and honoring our word, we tip the scales. Integrity and living a life of power and effectiveness are inseparable. Instead of the already/always condition setting the limits on who we are—our saying becomes the gravitational pull for who we are. When we live our lives consistent with our word, when we experience ourselves as whole and complete, we create the possibility of freedom and power.
- Mark Spirtos


Seth says

Seth says
and easy fix … i can just title the poem “Integrity” … oh #shucks i pretty much already did “#Integrity #authenticity”.

Mark de LA says
null Art – it’s a dish best served for those who have a discriminating taste . null This piece was the work of my dog Shadow & the tomato grower.

Si says

Seth says
well i have found that in practical practice in today’s world that “the negative aspect ‘obtained’ by both people revisiting something not wanted” is by far overshadowed by eliminating a festering resentment.  But okay, in a perfect world full of perfectly #LoaSwim’ing people where resentments never do not fester, i agree. 

Si says
Well, as I said, simply do one of many other things that can patch things back together without focusing attention on the negative. An apology is not the only way to get feeling good and back on track, it is just a cultural habit.

How many times have you heard in our culture things like “He/she apologizes and then turns around and does it again!”? I have heard that, or some form of it, quite often, from the people I know, and as s common script on shows, and in movies. It is a well known phenomenon. It happens because of the refocusing of attention on what is not wanted, which recreates the pattern, or some form of it, again after a period of time has passed (the manifestational delay period) for that issue.

Seth says

Seth says

Perhaps the Trumpsters believed the president-elect.

mark

perhaps.  

but not me, i did not believe anything out of #Trump’s  mouth … it was all just a performance … he said what he said for the effect it would have on select people’s emotions … absolutely devoid of #integrity.  i am sure #Hillary lied for effect as well but on an entirely different scale … not even close.   That Trump won using that stratagey will cause others to do so as well.   #MeThinks an edge has been crossed in American Politics.  I would have prefered to stay on the other side of that edge … hence #MyVote2016.

#OhWell #AcceptAndMoveOn. 

Si says
You are quite deluded to think that Hillary lied less, or on less of a scale than Trump. I am quite sure Hillary lied as big as Trump, just that her lies were much more contrived, much more secretive, and run wide and deep with those she trusts, and even deeper by what she holds over those she doesn’t trust. Trump’s lies were straight up, on the surface, and involving mainly his own mouth … leaving it up to us to judge if we believed him or cared.

I am not saying one is better than the other, but you are so deceived if you don’t see the depth and breadth of Hillary’s deception, which has spanned the last 30 years of American politics.

I have been watching Hillary ever since she was President the first time with Bill her puppet. I know this well.

 

Seth says
visit the fact check sites and then you might be more informed.   maybe listen to each of their speeches and tally up the number.   the scale of #Trump’s deceit is dazzeling.  also you might not want to repeat the lies about hillarys lies which filtered down to you via Trump and her opposition.  Get it from her mouth instead. 

Si says
I haven’t even heard a single one of the lies about her from Trump. As I told you, I ignored politics this time until 2 days before the election.

I have been watching Hillary for years, ever since her and Bill gained office in the 90’s. Anyone who can read anything can see her lies written in her body language, her deeds, and on the faces of those who are close to her for all of those years. I don’t need fact check sites to tell me how she lies … and all of those sites can be controlled and manipulated by anyone at her and Trump’s level anyway. Not reliable sources.

Listen to her words? #LOL Yes, just like Mowgly listened to the words of Kaa in The Jungle Book. Soothing words, so reasonable, so full of what the outcasts of Trump’s lies want to hear, leading those who only listen to words, the mindless clan of the #RingsTrue worshipers, to their doom.

Not really wanting to knock #RingsTrue, but clearly, if you think Hillary’s words #RingTrue, then there is a serious flaw in your practice of it. #RingsTrue must account for more than just the words … which are only 10 to a maximum of 30 percent, of the available communication.

Seth says
okay we have different opinions.   I will keep with my #RingsTrue instead of yours … after all it is based upon my experience. 

Si says
Well, I don’t think it is based on your experience. I think you let your emotional reaction to Trump seriously distort your ability to actually experience Hillary as she truly presented herself. You wanted something different than Trump so badly, you ignored many signs Hillary was emitting. Or perhaps you were relying on the emotional states of others, such as Denise for instance. #IDK … but clearly, there is distortion.

Seth says
well you are welcome to your opinion as always even when you #MakeShitUp about me null

Mark de LA says
Strange #BackAndForth attached to the #SpeakingDiet topic. 

Seth says

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 22353

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