The Analytic/Synthetic Distinction

About: Mystery re Loosing Group Memberships during shifting sands - comment 70283

Seth says ...
Well it is true that we each have our own #concepts … and those can be every so different.  That means that what may appear as #edge #facts to some can not appear so to others.  Which is why me, i always go with what we agree upon and can share … especially the #edge facts.

This kind of factoring of mental beliefs between different communities was actually well studied and discussed in philosophy circles dating back even to the in 19th century.  It went under the banner of the google analytic synthetic distinction.  I think it was finally Willard Van Orman Quine who clarified the matter … er if you can call it a clarification.   This is deep stuff … i worked my way thorough it in the 90s … and would be glad to discuss it philosophically with anyone who wants to be objective about it. 

My take away is that nathan is right … you can think of “facts” anyway your want and refactor some such  that they do not even appear as external facts.   That is one good reason to go with what you can share with others”.   Then it does not matter null.
tag #analytic #synthetic #AnalyticSynthetic #AnalyticTruth #SyntheticTruth 

Tags

  1. edge
  2. concepts
  3. facts
  4. analytic
  5. synthetic
  6. AnalyticSynthetic
  7. AnalyticTruth
  8. SyntheticTruth
  9. share
  10. LOA
  11. group
  12. GroupBehavior
  13. troglodytes
  14. thelemites
  15. RealGroups
  16. p2
  17. RealGroup
  18. secrecy
  19. concensus
  20. TD
  21. insides
  22. AlanWatts
  23. RingsTrue
  24. wow
  25. AlreadyAlwaysArguing
  26. WTF

Comments


Mark de LA says
Nice to get into a little group of people & share your stuff with the other thelemites, eh?

Mark de LA says
Share is one-way or two?

Seth says
yes, sharing requires at least 2 minds.  sharing with yourself is not sharing at all null

Mark de LA says
was focusing on the share part . I can share an idea but you can reject it. I see sharing as a gift of co-ownership. Otherwise I could share the words “Fuck You!” etc. & would still be considered sharing.null

Seth says
well you “sharing an idea with me” and me “rejecting it” is not sharing in the sense that i am using the word at all.

Sharing is a real match point … something that you percieve and that i percieve as well.  It can be from different points of view, but we are both percieving the same #edge or fact or are agreeing on the same concept. 

tag #share

Si says
These groups are not Thelemites mark. These groups are vibrationally based. They are not managed by humans like Thelemite groups would be. They are managed by the state of being of those involved. No one is recruited. No one is kicked out. There is no membership list. Those who want the experience show up and have it. Those who don’t want to do the personal vibrational work to keep up with the others drift away naturally. Because those involved are holding a very high and leading edge vibration … the vibration itself and nothing else moderates the group.

It is not like the humanized groups and societies you are familiar with from your history period. There is no leadership and no goals. There is only one binding and governing element … the desire to do the personal work needed to have and maintain the experience.

Mark de LA says
Yeah, the thelemite thingy was just sarcasm. PJ2 had leaderless unorganized happenings too.  These days flash mobs are the rave & sometimes raves are flash mobs. thumbs up

Seth says
i think the Thelmite/Troglodyte groups were supposed to be formed based upon a hierarchy determining the qualities of a prospective member to be:  loyal, active, worthy, descrete & aspiring.  The “descrete” part was based upon #secrecy as defined in “(private thought) (comment 10250)” … right mark ?  

That is quite different from nathan’s #LOA formed groups.  

Groups in #TD’s are volentary … more similar to a #LOA group … no hierarchy or criteria obtains for membership.  Although somebody who is obstructing the group can be kicked out … but, strangely enough, that has yet to happen.   Most of the  #RealGroups , which i have been involved with in society,  are pretty much the same way.  

Membership in the  #p2 group, which was a #RealGroup, was by #concensus of the membership  in #p2 … and we frequently excluded prospects.

I have no idea how you guys think that relates to “The Analytic/Synthetic Distinction” which is more the horizontal distinction here.   … but i could make something up nullnull by noting that the vertical distinction in “Outside/Inside VS Belief/Facts”  *is*  the group boundary …  if like me,  you say of yourself,  “I am a variablenull.

tag #group #GroupBehavior #troglodytes #thelemites

Si says
Well, I am not a variable. Variables are assigned from without. Variables are given their identity, accept it from others. My identity comes from within, from source. The only thing I have in common with a variable is that I change, am not static or constant. It would be better to say I am that in which variables come into being, exist.

Seth says
Well you rejected those aspects of being variable which you don’t like … i don’t  blame you, so do i null.   A variable is a mathematical concept … but i am not “a mathematical concept” so i also reject that aspect of “being a variable”. 

On the other hand i did not create myself or my variability …  i am “assigned from without” … i must credit nature for that “assigning” … so i do not reject that part of being “a variable”  … my #insides, that which comes from within, did not seem to snake itself into being via my creation … or if *i* snaked it, i have long long long ago forgotten how  null… even thought, now, *i* do identify with being a part of nature … seems i am that part of the whole of nature that is doing me now null

Then too, maybe what you call “source” in a blanket way … i call “nature” also in a blanket way nullnull

see also thought 18028 and thought 22583

#AlanWatts

Si says
You have no idea if you created yourself or your variability. The statement that you did not create yourself is completely false. You don’t have an awareness of having created yourself or of something outside you having created you. All you know is what others have thought about it … and what you desperately want to be true, because you are afraid the apparent alternative, within your current belief structure, will suck, as it did once for you.

This is the truth … and is not made up shit about you. If you are honest with yourself, you will know this is true. If you are not honest with yourself, you will start to feel your panties getting tighter right now (or whatever equivalent you experience as conflict with otherness appearing to intrude on your sovernty of chosen reality).

Seth says
Well, 

[*I*] don’t have an awareness of having created [my]self or of something outside [me] having created [me]

nathan

#RingsTrue and i said as much myself  null … perhaps you missed that in my 2nd paragraph because it was composed out loud and had a kind of a switcheroo inside it which i left because i liked it. 

The rest of that is just shit you made up about me which shows just how very much you don’t know me at all …. and don’t mind showing that ignorance to me null … mostly i wonder why you even said it.

Si says
I said it to test your current state of self awareness. Now I know where you are at, at least in this moment, and probably most of the time.

Seth says

Mark de LA says
#wow – nathan pretends to tell you what is truth for seth – almost like the early days with JC ..
“verily, verily I say unto thee …..” 
null
Interesting conversation by brilliant minds spun off a piece of sarcasm – #LOA & #AlreadyAlwaysArguing

Si says
Yep. Lets see how honest with your self you can be. Test yourself against the troll.  

Mark de LA says
#WTF does that even mean Miami?

Si says
It means exactly what you really thought it meant when you created it.  

Mark de LA says
nullI didn’t create your comment , verily, verily not working for you the AM nathan

Si says
Did you read it? Did you experience it at all? Then you created it. You created, by selection, the version of me that would be able to say exactly that selection of words to you and nothing else, out of all the possible versions of me out there. That effectively makes it your creation. You may not be consciously in touch with the aspects of your own self that are operating upon all those choices and selections, but ignorance of what you create does not mean that it is not your creation.

And most importantly, if you meditate on it, you will discover exactly why you wanted to read that. It will become apparent to you. Everything you experience is your creation and thus all reason for it is available to you to know if you simply ask in the right way. Different people gain access to this higher state of knowledge in different ways. For many it might be meditation. For others, it might be creating authority figures who disseminate the information to them.

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