Socrates Cafe Question: Should presidents tweet?

About: @realDonaldTrump

Interesting question.   I think they should, and here is why.   Talking in pubic is the same as thinking in public … except of course thinking is private, and talking is public,  especially if you have an audience.   Now tweeting is the same as talking … and so the same as thinking.

Now i don’t know about you, but i sure as hell want to know what my president is thinking. 
 
I  get that from noticing that two behaviors which people have traditionally considered to be totally different are actually the same behavior happening in two different contexts.

the only difference  between thinking and talking is that the audience is different.

Bozo Faust ~ 2017


tag #thinking #talking #saying #context 
 
 
 
#Trump #Twitter #tweeting #thinking #saying #SocratesCafe






 
But we discussed:  What is the value of happy?

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Tags

  1. Trump
  2. Twitter
  3. tweeting
  4. thinking
  5. saying
  6. SocratesCafe
  7. talking
  8. context
  9. writing
  10. telling
  11. btw
  12. kudos
  13. RingsTrue
  14. LIE
  15. MakeShitUp
  16. MyVote2016
  17. Putin
  18. lies
  19. edges
  20. RingingTrue
  21. IDoNotKnow
  22. PilesOfWords
  23. Bullshit
  24. PileOfWords
  25. wallaby
  26. juice
  27. ThinkingDomain

Comments


Mark de LA says
Presumably the tweets are unfiltered by M$M .  Knowing what he is thinking is a toss-up null

Si says
Talking IS NOT the same as thinking. I don’t know where you get that from. In all the people I know personally, and all the ones I don’t, and all the books and movies and shows I have seen, one thing stands out very clearly. It is a rarity to find someone who says what they are thinking!

And especially in Trump’s case, I would say that his tweeting has almost nothing to do with what Trump is thinking. I would say his tweeting has to do with what he want’s you to be thinking!  

Seth says
well of course null … but then that is the whole point.

you bring up how this person is talking … how what they are saing is connected to what they are thinking.   But how a person connects what that say with what they think is in fact what i want to know about them.  That is what leads the country.

Si says
Well this rings a dead false to me “Now tweeting is the same as talking … and so the same as thinking.”

Thinking and talking hardly relate to each other and you say in this statement that they are equivalent. Thinking is what you do, talking is what you want others to think you are thinking if you are self focused, and what you want them to think themselves if you are other focused. Neither are directly related to what you think except perhaps in .01% of the population … people with Downs Syndrome for instance.

Si says
Well with Trump, what you actually know is how he connects what he says with what he wants you to think. What Trump actually thinks about anything has always been a complete mystery … even his wife probably doesn’t know.

Seth says
Yes, nathan … some people say something entirely diffenently in one context than they would in another. 

The vernacular for that is “talking out of both sides of your neck” null

There is of course another difference … when we think we don’t usually vibrate our vocal cords.  But i have seen lots of people who do.   But traditionally no, people don’t usually think out loud.

Sorry you got taught the  old way of factoring these behaviors.  Most people before now have gotten indoctrinated in that way of thinking about thinking and saying.  You might try the new way before you knee jerk into the old.  I find it clarifies and factors some very nasty confusions.

#thinking #saying #writing #telling 

Seth says
you say …

It is relatively difficult, not impossible, to hold onto a thought without some words or pictures to anchor it for while out of the cosmic ooze.

mark

… which is just sooo true null

So when we are thinking,  saying words for our thoughts silently is a way of “holding on to them and keeping them from the cosmic ooze”.  Saying them out loud with our vocal chords does that even more.  Writing them down on paper or keyboard and an electric screen holds on to them even better.  Tweeting them is the new way which also collects their audience.   The bigger the audience, the stronger the anchor. 

#thanks → mark for anchoring that thought to mine null


Mark de LA says
Once the thought leaves my soul nobody knows what it turns into – often on the Internet it turns into munge. null

Seth says
← which is your #aug,  not mine null

me, i love how my thoughts get used by others null  it is my favorite thing null

Seth says
#btw mark … it will be best if you continue your dialogue on this subject here and not on Miami’s illegitimate plagarism of this thought.   Your pearls might get lost over there.

Mark de LA says
Well my last comment got lost.  If you are attempting to confuse with clones you have achieved your purposes.

Seth says
well it happened … but obviously was not my intention … or even nathan’s … there is no blame in this whatsoever. 

personally i liked nathan’s dramatic introduction of clones  … #kudos → nathan

it has shown us, me thinks, how to change things to eliminate such confusions. 

i screen snapped your last comment and put it on the clone here → “(clone) Should presidents tweet? (comment 70587)” .    feel free to read that and let it provoke your responses above if you feel the need.

Mark de LA says
I’m done – thnullanks

Seth says

Si says
Mixing apples and oranges … or two different conversations here today.

It is simple. If you think you are going to actually have any idea what Trump is thinking, as you clearly stated above, you are in for a rough ride and a big surprise. Know that. It is true.

Mark de LA says
XOR anyone else for that matter! null

Seth says
Fact is if you say something you are thinking out loud.  Start with that assumption and this may become clear.

Trump is a great example … trouble is he lies out loud. 

Now determining if he has a feeling that what he thinks or says #RingsTrue to him is another matter entirely.  Attach a good lie detector to him when he tweets … that might help.  Or more simply just see if what he says is consistent with other common knowledge of the citizens of America.  Or maybe even understand that he intends to do like you like to do and create his (our) reality by his thoughts.  

Si says

Si says
Yes mark. The whole point “was to confuse”. Clones are by nature confusing things. No better way to get that fact out to you than for you to meet face to face with your own clone, or one of your brother.  

Si says
Boy, you sure make up a lot of shit about Trump, and pass on a lot of Gossip too!

I only say one thing. I say Trump says exactly what he thinks will make you think what he wants you to think. That may, or may not, be an actual #LIE. The definition of a #LIE is very clear.

You seem to think that because he doesn’t parrot your idea of what truth is, he is lieing.

Seth says
yep we all do that … kind of is a common human behavior.   

the thing with trump here is that his thoughts (tweets, execuitive orders, addresses to congress, thoughts, addresses to the American people, political rallies) is  going to be changing the world order

… you know, just like you love to do with your own thoughts … how many times have you told me that … has it slipped your mind?

Si says
Oh, I agree with your premise and your conclusion. It is your reasoning to get between the two that I say rings false.

Trump is actually “with it”, up on the leading edge, being authentic and thus honorable. It is your faulty reasoning borrowed from a different period in human history, with different needs, that is faulty and making it seem like Trump is dishonorable to you.

Trump is quite well centered in the now … up with the latest of knowledge and ability in current times … honorable … as the Antichrist would be of course. Never said I like Trump. Don’t start getting that idea. But I do understand him … and do see how you are misreading him and what is going on.

 

Seth says
null notwistanding that what he says … and really, nathan, this is what he is thinking … is a lie according to the common American political understanding at the moment he says it.  Especially the stuff he #MakeShitUp about others who happen to criticize him.   Perhaps you have not follwed his tweeting and the things he says and thinks as closely as i have. 

If  Trump is being authentic when he thinks  those kind of vindictive thoughts about others, then so be it.   I am glad he actually thought them out loud in his tweets … which vindicates my answer the question raised by this thought … and also vindicates #MyVote2016. 

Mark de LA says
I’ll let my clone come F2F w/ your clone nathan & see what happens from a distance.null

Seth says
here is a example of one of #Trump’s vindictive tweets (thoughts) attacking the messenger rather than dealing with the message …

.@CNN is in a total meltdown with their FAKE NEWS because their ratings are tanking since election and their credibility will soon be gone!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 12, 2017
Now it may well be a fact that some of the things in the dossia were false … but CNN reported what happened accurately and shined the light on something that appears to be happening between #Trump and #Putin.   Like it or not, that was good journalism on the part of CNN as i reported in “The Current Political Drama”.

Seth says

talking is what you want others to think you are thinking    [in some multiverses]
talking is what you want others to think themselves              [in some other multiverses]

nathan
sounds like rationalization for telling #lies null … or thinking them, which really is the same thing null
 

Si says
Your still thinking that Trump thinks what he tweets. I know he doesn’t. You are deluding yourself.

Si says
Thinking lies and telling lies IS NOT THE SAME THING at all. Thinking creates reality. Thinking a lie creates something other than what you want to experience. Telling a lie creates social drama, but does not create reality. The reality one experiences after the telling of a lie is only a reflection, the after affect of the belief … and did not have to be ones experience. What one thinks becomes ones experience.

Neither of those justify anything. I don’t know why you always frame things as “this justifies lieing” or “this other thing justifies treating other thusly”, etc. People should be authentic and that has no justification. The idea that what people do requires justification, or is influenced by justification, is very old school … from back in the days when people looked for authentication of their experience from the outside and from authority.

Si says
Your clone will shit on things. My clone will instruct your clone to stop. What else is there to know?  

Mark de LA says
N’s clone just lies back and #juice ‘s off! null

Si says
Yea, that too. How did you know?

Seth says
well no im not thinking that at all.  

if Trump does not feel his tweets ring true to himself, then he is telling a lie to his audience.   That would certainly explain many of his tweets.  And, yes nathan, i quite know that. 

You cannot hold that thinking and speaking are radically different things (like you doubtlessly do) and understand these #edges as i am describing them.   To understad, you must ASSUME ON FAITH that they ARE the same thing … the only difference being the audience and often the media of representation.   
 

Seth says

… but on the other hand let us suppose that most of #Trump’s tweets and other sayings are #RingingTrue to himself.   I am actually betting than many of them do.

← then #Trump is doing this.  

In either case #Trump’s tweets ARE his thoughts to the audience he has in that particular moment of that thought.   

… and yes, i can presume that many of his thoughts are private and addressed just to himself.

Strangely enough, i am betting that he does not do quite so many of those private thoughts as do you or i.  But #IDoNotKnow … that is just me #MakeShitUp’ing.
 

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 22801

Mark de LA says
I like the idea of instant feedback which doesn’t mean that the feedback has any instant value – perhaps some Ethos if it is POTUS. Nevertheless as with other mere mortals truth is optional XOR yet to be proved.

Si says
Truth is what you think sufficiently to make it so. Nothing more, nothing less.

Mark de LA says
That’s your belief ! Lots of people in nut-houses notwithstanding.nullnull
Free yourself & get rid of beliefs ! Don't be a robot - M.R.

Seth says
well actually there is both.   there are facts … i call them #edges … that we all crawl upon and share.  those are not things that we “make up” just because we “think sufficiently to make them so”. 

then there is the reality that we make up. 

hankering back to “Outside/Inside VS Belief/Facts” …
 
the outside social reality that we share our inside world that we make up
the outside natural reality that we share our inside nature

Mark de LA says
& #PilesOfWords to obscure that we really know when we tell the truth all #Bullshit aside.

Seth says
…  mark,  did  you say that to say you don’t understand it?  

er, maybe that was not an intention of which you were aware …
but that was the effect the knowledge i absorbed from your utterance had on me.

Mark de LA says
Nope! Just to point out that you produced yet another #PileOfWords which said very little beyond it’s easy to tell the truth & yet did not say that at all.
null

Seth says
okay, you said it again … i got the message the first time.

but actually the contexts named by these two orthogonal distinctions keeps giving and giving. 
too bad it is not a #wallaby you care to share with me null

Mark de LA says
What human predicament does it assist, if it does even , with the imprimatur of not lying ? & how?

Seth says
“it” is a representation of my understanding.   i use it myself now and again to assist how i understand what is happening with me and my surroundings.   like “i am ok ... you are not ok” it has predictive value … do this and you get that result … do that and you get this result.

but to see how that might work, first you have to take it on face value and understand what is being represented.  that is not something that will happen as we play #juice games with each other.

Mark de LA says
Naw – just have to quit lying & don’t  #MakeShitUp so much.

Si says
Yep. That’s true. Only spout what Mark has made up. Nothing else. His idea of what is not made up is the one that the universe is made with. null

Mark de LA says
Yep nathan is obsessed with the idea that he can think something into existence but doesn’t seem to be able to test it in public for witnesses to validate. He’s not much of a magician if he can’t do it in public.

Si says
I do it in public all the time, every day. Weather you can observe it or not is up to the story you write. I don’t write you, I mirror you. You write you and what you experience. So, why are you not writing that I do magic in front of you?

Mark de LA says
N lives in his own world in a strange solipsism.

Si says
Well again mark, that well describes you, how you present yourself, and what you do to others. So again, I say, I am doing a splendid job of mirroring you. Thanks for the confirmation.  

Mark de LA says
When you look in the mirror all YOU SEE IS YOU! 

Si says
Yep. I agree. Nice you know that.  

Seth says
#Trump is now tweeting as @potus and as @realDonaldTrump.  Both are his thought channels … input & output.  So if you want to sing his prise or berate him just address one of those channels just address him just as you would in a #ThinkingDomain.

or edited as my tweet … er, “public thought” ...

#Trump tweets as @potus or @realDonaldTrump. Both are his thought channels. Address him on one of those as you would in a #ThinkingDomain

— Seth Russell (@SethRussell) January 24, 2017

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