Rumi on Others


  1. do
  2. a11ysea
  3. listens
  4. WeaselWords
  5. responsibility
  6. ownership
  7. inside
  8. outside
  9. doing
  10. experiences
  11. Egoo
  12. LOA
  13. CoolUrisDontChange
  14. daddy


Si says
I am not ready to say I have “played enough” … yet.

But I have evolved sufficiently to fully comprehend the wisdom.

Have you? 

Mark de LA says
Free yourself & get rid of beliefs ! Don't be a BELIEF robot - M.R.

Si says
This is not a tolit mark. Positive input, memes, counter facts, stories, analogies, virtually anything about what you believe, even if quite different, is greatly appreciated. Calling the ideas of others useless and basically any other manner of shitting upon things is not appreciated. Thanks.

Mark de LA says
It is a platitude though which means little & it is too big a display for so little impact. & you or SeriTD can’t spell toilet .

Seth says
well i don’t know about “charming” others … 
i haven’t done much of that in my life  anyway null,
as many of you can attest null

i hope i never give up on cooperating with others … 
for what i can do together with others
is far grater than what i can do by myself.  

Mark de LA says

Si says
Yes. And what you can do by cooperatively creating others by deliberately choosing out of all the possibilities each other represents far exceeds what you can do by randomly sampling from the pool of otherness too!

Taking responsibility for the possibilities of otherness you individually experience is the highest art of human experience available.  

Seth says
Well cooperatively and deliberately choosing to create possibilities out of those which others represent is certainly better than randomly selecting them.  Building on what works is how new things get done … not randomly building on whatever. 

I take responsibility for choosing and focusing what i experience. 

That is a high art in living indeed null

… but taking responsibility for the possibilities that others create, or even judging them,  is a waste of my time. 

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
I think possibilities exist as such by the configuration of the content of existence.  To manifest any possibility depends upon the person’s abilities; some having relative skills to do so less/greater than another.

Seth says

Seth says
whatever we actually #do in the “content of existence”, will create new possibilities.  Manifesting those is sometimes left for others … sometimes we can do it all ourselves … but cooperatively manifesting with others  will get more of that actually #done .   

We are all disabeled in some regard … we have our blind spots where others can see …

take me for example … i have famously adnutted my disability …

I can’t remember shit.

Seth Russell at #a11ysea

people laughfed  nulland agreed null… they knew it was true ! … many were blind themselves.

Mark de LA says
Well I am talking about the content of existence as that which is – i.e. an amoeba is never going to write an artificial intelligence program hence such is not in the content of existence.null

Seth says
Well what you said in Rumi on Others (comment 72164) rang true over here and what i said was consistent with that. 

When we #do things inthat which is”, we actually create new possibilities in how that which is  is “configured”.   But mere possibilities have not happened … they need to be manifested to happen and exist in that which is

Do you see it differently?

Note i put in quotes those terms that i believe i am using in the same way that you are using them.

Si says
”but taking responsibility for the possibilities that others create, or even judging them” ~ Seth

Well of course. No one has ever said to take responsibility for anything others create, or judge them … it has always been said to take responsibility for one’s own experience, including ones own experience of others. Others must take responsibility for their own experiences. That is where the harmony builds and co-creation happens.

If you are playing in a symphony and you take any responsibility at all for the experience of the cello player next to you, the whole symphony is going to be at risk. Each artist must take full and absolute responsibility for only what they play, and the quality of the sound they are creating, and the whole experience that individual is having, choosing carefully and selectively what to focus on being presented by any other player in the symphony … then the combined experience becomes a grand harmony that boggles the ears of everyone to behold. Get in anyone esle’s business than your own, and the symphony becomes a cacophony. 

Each person must become responsible for their own entire experience … then the combined experience can exceed all expectations and surpass the sum of the all parts.

Seth says

The music i express when i play with you is created by me, not you … and visa versa.   In a symphony of manifesting possibilities, the violin #listens to the obo and times its stokes modulating its timbre in tune with the symphony … and the obo #listens back.  They do  not play alone as if they were sufficient to the symphony by theselves … else there would be no symphony … there would be only cacophony. 

Seth says

Mark de LA says
There’s possibility, probability & then the present reality of certainty . Don’t confuse them with #WeaselWords ; however you can choose whatever mental motivation you like for your actions if you unhack your brains only if they are not damaged.
Free yourself & get rid of beliefs ! Don’t be a BELIEF robot - M.R.

Si says
Yes. Others exist. Yes, we interact with others. Yes, interplay with others enhances the experience of everyone. It would not be a symphony without others. 

“They do  not play alone as if they were sufficient to the symphony by theselves” ~ Seth

Obviously, no one has ever suggested that in any way. Only asking is to take 100% responsibility for the entirety of ones own experience, including each individuals experience of others.

Seth says
request denied!

Si says
Well, you are already doing it. There is no other way possible. It is the nature of experience. You can deny you are responsible for your experience of others though, many do. You could call it denial of othership, or use the more common way of thinking about the idea, which is to allow yourself to believe you are a victim.   

Si says
Well, I prefer to free myself and get rid of beliefs like that. Thanks anyway!  

Seth says
well concepts like #responsibility and #ownership are very peculiar.   notice that they are completely subjective and are only about what goes on #inside the domain of our humanity.  you cannot find these relationships objectively.  they just do not happen #outside.   an alien being could not observe them.  they do not register on instruments.

so when viewed from outside i prefer to use concepts that can be determined and shared … concepts ike cause, effect, control, dependency, etc. 

in Rumi on Others (comment 72244) i found your first 2 paragraphs true … of course i would because they basically quoted me null …. but then you switched to this “responsibility” concept … and request that i should be 100% responsible for my experience.   i think if you stayed with objective concepts, you might see why i would refuse … it contradicts the premises in those two true paragraphs …. we cannot deeply interact without being effected by that with which we interact … it is impossible.    to be honest, i must refuse your request.

null this may be new ground for us nathan … i don’t think we have ever talked about it this way.

Si says
There is no conflict between taking 100% responsibility for our own experience and being effected by interacting with our experience. They are separate things and can be logically arranged in any of the possible paired configurations. I don’t really even see why you would think that they are so intimately connected as you are implying.

Seth says
apparently your beliefs prevent you from seeing the contradiction.  if i believed as you do, then i would not see it either.   i have simulated your logic over here … and yes it fits together quite nicely.  maybe you coould reciprocially assume some of my beliefs so that at least you would see how the contradiction appears out here.

Si says
I don’t get what you are saying. It seems like you are saying that I should take something I can clearly see as a larger set of intermutable possibilities and place limitations on those until I only can see the one possibility you use. That is like taking a larger box (2x2) and making it a smaller box (1x1).

Why, on earth, would I do that? null

Seth says
well for one thing maybe because your assumption that your “larger set of intermutable possibilities” is possibly quite smaller indeed null

Si says
Sorry. That doesn’t make sense. Understanding and welding reality is an expansion, not a reduction. The only time it is a reduction is when a particular person wants to have a very specific experience … but here we (and Rumi) are talking about “the nature of experience”, not specific individual experiences. That was the opening premise and the main premise in all the threads.

Seth says
Well I agree that “understanding and welding reality is an expansion, not a reduction” … it increases possiblities.  Manifesting possibilities (#doing stuff) does in fact collapse possibilities into #experiences … i guess one could see that as a “reduction” … but it is also a expansion of other possibilities.   I think that reduction  can be seen from both  #inside or from #outside … that might need some more consideration … havent thought in those terms yet.

But i don’t see that as having any bearing on what i said in “Rumi on Others (comment 72308)”, which me think is true regardless of the context here.  

null sometimes it hard to see how your own assumptions limit you … it is a relativity thingey … many get trapped in that bind … something to do with something objectively measuring itself.  physical analogies abound.

looked for a meme: “man is the only spirit who thinks it can see himself with himself” … couldnt find it yet.

Seth says
think about it, a closed system will tend to be smaller than an open system.  a system that makes up 100% it’s own reality is closed … whereas a system which actually absorbs input (things that happen which were not created from #inside) from the #outside is open to growth.   the latter is not necessarily larger … but it is not necessarily smaller either.

but isn’t it interesting that i can simulate your thoughts based upon what i know of your beliefs and watch them match up … yet you refuse to do the same for mine … yet you presume that your system is ipso facto larger than mine.   mathematically i find that strange indeed … not a #Egoo’ey thing to fight over … just an interesting mathematical problem to ponder.  

Si says
No one ever said to make up 100% of one’s own reality. That is where you keep making up your own idea about all of this … and not getting it.

Taking 100% responsibility for your own reality IS NOT making up 100% of your reality. Your entire reality is created out of the stuff that is you … your energy, and because of that only you can ever be responsible for it. But you don’t make up everything included there yourself, in fact, as you well know, you make up very little of it. Most of what is in your reality is made up by others via their imagination and experiences and then included by you in your reality. Your own desires and creativity add only a little bit. They can add a lot more if you take responsibility for it, and that’s the point, but in no case would it be even close to 100% your stuff … it could not be.

Si says
It is like group seth. You are 100% responsible for the experience of what is in the thoughts there (not comments of course). You don’t make up 100% of what is in the thoughts there, lots of the pictures, quotes, videos, diagrams, and even basic ideas come from others … but it is entirely your creation and you are 100% totally responsible for the experience being had there … and 0% responsible for the experience being had in group nathan, even though the experiences in each often play off each other.

Seth says
okay we are kind of converging on the same page.   i still don’t like to use the term “responsibility” in this context … see Rumi on Others (comment 72250).   i try to look at this objectively and use objective language … you seem to look at it subjectively and use language which favors that end of what is happening. 

anyway we don’t need to argue about this stuff.  welcome back null, if you are back  … i can’t say that i missed you, i don’t like the all judgements and the preaching against my choices  … i just want to shape this puppy and experience it in the world of what is actually happening on the internet and our human lives.  i want to #do that … and #doing that has nothing to do with arguing about our different philosophical choices of what we value.

Mark de LA says
Unexpected ? null Nah! 

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
Solipsism is a closed system!

Seth says

Si says
Funny that is. I put things out there, like this Rumi quote thought, and nearly always the first comment by you (or Mark) is full of judgment, not re-understanding and expanding like I usually put on your guys posts, actual judgment, like your first comment on this post.

For the most part, the only way I judge either you or Mark is in your ability to expand your experiences outside your box. Beyond that I simply tell you about my experience and my understandings about the subject, without judgment … later, when you judge my presenting, then I fire back at your judgments.

Even when we discuss programming I mainly only make attempts to get you on the fast track where #LOA is actively supporting development instead of the old traditional slow tracks. Even my difference in opinion about #CoolUrisDontChange is presented as “my opinion” about it. You do go on your crusades out of perceived righteous indignation … but that’s another story entirely.

Si says
Yes, I agree mark. You have devised a very closed experience as your reality. That is why I am always harping about your box.

Well, actually I harp about seth’s box because seth is willing to explore the boundaries of the experience he has created, even if not transgress them … you mark mainly just shit off the edge of your box on whatever is outside of it and ignore the very idea that you could even be living in a box of your own design … so I mainly talk about your shittings, not the box you are perching on to shit from.

Seth says
yeah well that is specifically what i do not want to argue about.

if you want to see where i am going to live, watch my twitter feed … not necessarily any specific content there yet … i am just learning the media now … have yet to make the connections that i want.  But  I noticed that i can use twitter and do not need to wait for everybody to flock to thinking domains to start thinking usefully together.   The question is how will domains facilitate that thought rubbing and collaborating and reach into the world.  That is the reality for which i am sharing responsibility.  I think the new new internet is ripe, ready and needs better tools for people to think together.  It is about building a social organism for useful human thought to grow in a new world.  Not being able so far to do that here is telling us that is not the way to do it.   There is plenty of blame to go around … and no need to parse out who owns it null

Seth says
thanks #daddy for you judgments … but not really null

Si says
I agree with most of that.  

Not the paragraph about blame. That paragraph is simply pure judgment. I don’t assign blame (judge experience) … rather, I understand the experience that is there and happening.  

… except where you make left turns … those I have a contract with you to make visible to you.

Si says
Your welcome. When it’s about your box, it is what I am here to make visible.  

However, the parent child thing is your own story, your chosen format, there are many available.

Mark de LA says
Rumi quote is binary – there is more to the “story”. See 17448 – more than just black & white in the rainbow.

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 22974

Si says

Si says
Yes, I see that. Thank you for presenting this idea.  

Seth says

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