Mark de LA says
Good report by Tucker Carlson here → http://video.foxnews.com/v/5329816498001/?#sp=show-clips – rather balanced.  Now maybe some unbiased news reporters may actually look into the situation.  OTOH,
Police force pushed to breaking point by violence amid migrant influx... 

REVEALED: The fakest fake news checkers…

---

XOR why you are looking at this situation – (4674.5 miles) except the MEGAPHONE got you! 

Seth says
i am just after a truth of the situation, mark.  i can walk the streets of a city and experience first hand the texture of criminal behavior.   i’ve done that in South Central La, areas of San Francisco, and Seattle.  I’ve even experienced immigrant areas of Seattle which are populated with Muslims.  I can tell you first hand that this #swedenincident behavior is not happening in Seattle – rather that community is becoming more safe from crime.   I can point that out in more detail if you doubt my claims.  I can’t go to #sweeden to experience this first hand, so i need information that i can trust … information that does not contradict my own experience and intuition.

Is #Trump #MakeShitUp’ing to manipulate people’s minds to support his travel ban to America …
or is this a situation  best avoided by draconian measures?

#thanks → mark for the articles, i’ll read them in time.  this is not the top of my current agenda.  

Mark de LA says
So your real agenda is more #TrumpBashing – truth is just an excuse even if you believed in truth?

Is #Trump #MakeShitUp’ing to manipulate people’s minds to support his travel ban to America … or is this a situation we should avoid with draconian measures?

Mark de LA says
tsk tsk – got it right! since you hide it! 

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 22996

Seth says
Regarding the Tucker Carlson report on Fox news,  upon which #Trump’s comments were based. 

Here is something being reported in the Swedish press …

Two Swedish police officers were interviewed in the film. Anders Göranzon and Jacob Ekström answered questions about how weapons are becoming more accessible. Horowitz also asked the officers about how crime has spread through cities. But the police officers now say that their answers were taken out of context, and are very critical of how their comments were portrayed on Fox News ”Tucker Carlson Tonight”. ”I don’t understand why we are a part of the segment. The interview was about something completely different to what Fox News and Horowitz were talking about”, says Anders Göranzon.

Why were you interviewed?

”It was supposed to be about crime in high risk areas. Areas with high crime rates. There wasn’t any focus on migration or immigration”.

How did you react to the news segment?

”We don’t stand behind it. It shocked us. He has edited the answers. We were answering completely different questions in the interview. This is bad journalism.”

Anders Göranzon continues: ”It feels like hell. The real questions should be shown along with our answers. We don’t own the rights to the film, but the end result is that we don’t want to talk to journalists after this. We can’t trust each other.”

Have you done anything to stop the news segment?

”We just saw it. What can we do? One thing is talking to you. The excerpt they showed doesn’t say anything, we answered a different question. We don’t stand behind what he says. He is a madman.”

via twitter

who are we to believe?

Seth says
read this story to get a feel of how this #swedish  “news” gets faked. 

In the middle of the town of Kumanovo sit the grandiose City Archives, the red and yellow Macedonian flag fluttering above the entrance. I make my way down the side of the building and open a sheet metal gate, finding myself in a courtyard full of junk. There is a broken cement mixer, some homemade ladders, and a car being repaired.

Ivan Stankovic opens the door drowsily, bending down under the boiler stuck to the wall as he invites me to sit on his sofa, which also doubles as his bed.

His grandfather built the house, which nowadays leans in several directions at once and looks as if it is about to collapse under its own weight. His father lives on the top floor, and took out a bank loan to buy his son a computer.

It was from that computer that Ivan posted an article on his home page on the 8th December 2016. The piece was about how Muslims had defecated and masturbated in a church in Sweden.

“It was a real hit”, Ivan says. “The second I read the headline I knew that it was going to run like crazy. It hits people right in the head.”

Ivan waves his arms about, a caricature of an outraged American.

”’How can this shit be!? It’s not possible!’ It has become my job to figure out what people in the US want to read, topics that they want to share with their friends. Donald, Melania… Islam, Muslims. Everybody clicks on stuff like that.”

The headline of Ivan’s article read: Liberal church houses Muslim refugees, horrified by what they find in pews.

The numbers are pretty detailed:

The story reached 12,880 of those following Ivan’s page on Facebook.

The piece was shared 110 times.

Måns Mosesson in Swedish press

The whole article is well worth a detailed read.  

Knowing what is really going on in #sweden is quite a challenge indeed!

But #MakeShitUp’ing and imagining it is as easy as pie.

Mark de LA says
Yep, ~4,675 miles away, internet notwithstanding . 

Seth says
well the trick to learn is how to tell fact from fiction … i do not think that the geographic distance is all that important anymore … although it does add to the challenge.  We would have the same challenges if i was reporting on Seattle. 

Mark de LA says
Find real witnesses & photographs from locals. Anybody can talk on the Internet. You can wander around in Seattle & witness people & ask other people about what’s going on. You can’t even spell Sweden in your title. 

Seth says
maybe some leads to study here … #IDoNotKnow.

Mark de LA says
👍

Mark de LA says
My point is still that people on the Left are still frantically looking for a gotcha to prove & spread that Trump is a liar.  Good Luck with that!

Seth says
yep each side has an axe to grind and a motive for speaking and framing facts and even making them up.  that is the situations in the #world that we face when we set out to determie what is actually happening.  your point is noted, but nothing  has changed or is special about the playing field in that regard in this particular case.

even the source from Macidonia … far away from #sweden … had his own #clickbait motives for #MadeUpShit’ing.   me thinks the trick is to find several sources with no axe to grind and no motive to twist the facts … then see if their stories are consistent and if they are close enought to the ground to be fair witnesses.  that is not an easy task.  emoting against partisan actors on either side just distracts from finding the truth.

Mark de LA says
Gone back to finding “the truth” ? eh bro?

Seth says
yep am trying to find what #RingsTrue to me … and that which rings true,  better and better.  

but i don’t know what you are asking that bears on that pursuit … or how spending time contemplating your  “questions” helps in the inquiry. 

Mark de LA says
You should go back to your years of saying & blogging that  “the truth” does not exist & everything is relative & a story. 

Seth says
of course i never ever said such a thing ever at all.   i have always sought that ringing that i call truth … and yes that ringing is relative to me.  there is no contradiction between my current attitude tward inquiry and what i did years ago. 

you either have not understood anything that i have said on the subject, or you are impling a #LIE

Mark de LA says
”rings true” is just a euphemism – no sound is made nor bell rung when truth shows up except #Egoo squishing when one thinks he has won the #RWG .

Seth says
mark, take your confusion elsewhere.

Mark de LA says
Maybe go back & look where you used to emphasize the the part of the phrase “the truth”.

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 22998

Mark de LA says
memory losses on Bozo’s part notwithstanding.  Hinding that which Bozo does not want to remember is even more evidence.

Seth says
well i changed it to “a truth” … saying one is seeking “the truth” is just a manner of speaking.  not really worth a distracting argument about the philosophy of truth.  that does not help the inquiry itself.

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 22999

Seth says
here is a journalistic view supporting #Trump’s comments on #sweden …
 

Seth says
Here is a summary of what happened …

How a YouTube video about Sweden ignited the latest Trump furor ~ CNN

It hangs together well and is consistent with most of what i have read. 

Some statements by the CNN’s author  Brian Stelter  caught my eye …

Observers are able to choose from two versions of the truth -- a dark view of a crime-ridden Scandinavian country or a brighter view of a society supporting refugees and migrants.
…
The disturbing depiction of Sweden in Horowitz’s short film matches what some right-wing bloggers and commentators say about the country. But it is contradicted by crime statistics and other sources.

by Brian Stelter   @brianstelter

Mark de LA says
This morning: (via foxnews)

• 

  RIOTS IN SWEDEN
  Cars ablaze, rocks thrown after arrest in migrant area

  • SLIDESHOW: Overnight riots in Stockholm suburb
  • ’TUCKER TONIGHT’: Ami Horowitz defends Sweden refugee claims
  • VIDEO: Are the mainstream media missing the point about Sweden? 

Seth says
👍

Seth says
i still want to see unbiased analysis of what is happening from sombody actually in #sweden.

Mark de LA says
I read recently that people tend to read & agree with those who agree with them. Maybe even blogged it here.  But a googling around found this: (first one is confirmation bias)

The 12 cognitive biases that prevent you from being rational

Seth says
👍

Seth says
well #ConfirmationBias certainly happens.   i think it is part of what makes us work #inside and in #groups.  

those matches, … those agreements, …. are what nit together the story that we tell … 
and help us share those stories and their deeds with whom we are creating.

Why do you bring it up in this context?

Mark de LA says
The tendency to search for yet another point of view that agrees with you is prevalent.  In probably fact such produces a closed loop. NLP has matching strategies as a fundamental metaprogram which I have often mentioned. Interesting results (100’s) searching for the word agree in fbi.
XOR 

Si says
There is no mystery to it. It is simple straight forward #LOA. Like attracts like, including like thoughts attract (your tendency to search for as you call it) like thoughts, ideas, what have you.

Seth says
👍

Seth says
… i don’t know about you … but this mystery is  dazzeling #PML 

Mark de LA says
group pellick calls for you nathan & seth 

 

Seth says
i think what is causing the turbulence here is a lack of a deeper understanding of interacting with  #otherness and the #world outside of our selves.

for example, if your adgenda is not to cooperate … if you are otherness to that cooperation … then we are not talking about an attraction …. no #LOA is happening … rather we are talking about a repelling.  

Mark de LA says
Like attracting like was a theme in the Movie – The Secret of Water.
https://www.gaia.com/article/secret-water-movie  
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3952638/?ref_=nv_sr_3 

Mark de LA says
I think that not everyone agrees with seth & contrary views are viewed as turbulence . 
Others have a phobia of contrary views.

Seth says
well when i swim in waters that are disagreeable, i certainly experience turbulence.  

more and more i am learning how to swim in disagreeable and turbulent waters in the #world. 

and, strangely enough, i have no fear of swimming in turbulent waters … 
in a way it is more exciting than placid ones.

Mark de LA says
👍

Mark de LA says
A challenge exists to hold onto one’s anger & not censor others whom you hold as producing turbulence  & perhaps recognize who is producing the commotion.

Si says
Well first, speak for yourself. I know exactly what otherness is and have defined it very specifically many times.

Even in that situation you suggest, only attraction operates. Many have explained how this works from Ouspenski to Abraham and many others. There is only attraction. Repelling is a phenomena yes, but it is one that is based upon the basic elements of attraction. Just like in physics there is only tension. Compression can only exist because of the tension between molecules and atoms. Compression is a complexity of tensional forces … repulsion is a complexity of attracting forces.

Si says
”A challenge exists to hold onto one’s anger ...”

Perhaps that challenge exists for you, #Magor. It does not exist for me, the bouncing tigger.   

Seth says
well repelling and attracting are independent forces in the #world.  (period)

but they are relative to an observer …

so that if you are only measuring relative to yourself, you could consistently believe
(and apparently do)
that repelling was dependent on attracting. 

Mark de LA says
predictable!  – tigger must be an alien non-human.

Mark de LA says
This train is degenerating into #DoubleSpeak & #DoubleTalk – enjoy the goo.

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 23004

Si says
”well repelling and attracting are independent forces in the #world.”

You are simply misinformed seth. Even several treatments in modern science talk about the force of tension being the only actual one. In fact, I don’t really know where to find it, but I remember something from Steiner in that direction, if not exactly that. And Ouspensky explains it all in great detail in his New Mode of the Universe and ties it together with the law of 3.

The idea that they are two different things is oldschool.

Seth says
mark i am not familiar with any rubric suggesting “holding on to one’s anger”.   I must be misunderstanding you.  

What works better for me is just not experiencing anger at all.  in fact, every time i have ever gotten angry, i have noticed afterward that it was something that i was doing myself, and could in no way be blamed (or sourced) in the #world.  Why would i ever want to hold onto anger?
 

Si says
👍

Seth says
… sorry, nathan … it is you who are misinformed.  it is not just tension that keeps things going and evolving.  That is physics 101 … literally … a course incidentally in which i got a A+ at UCLA.  Nor do i remember #RS telling that story of yours.  But if you doubt do some study yourself independent of the stories that are telling you what you arready have an adgenda to know. 


talk to my friend #EricReiter … trust me, he know about tension intimately and  creatively … i have even worked on projects with him on that.  That actually might be an interesting dialogue to have … #shucks if you are willing i could even set it up to happen.

Mark de LA says
I can’t rub rubrics .  Anger has the habit of making more anger in oneself & others to which it aims. The RWG is fair proof & wars & current demonstrations & riots are examples. Study BofNK on the section on anger if you choose.  Anger is not being in the NOW, and is about a hurt in the past says PR

Si says
Yes, I have studied Eric’s stuff online. Very old school and void of leading edge ideas. He is literally afraid of leading edge ideas because his (I think daughter?) died (or so he believes) because she would not take traditional cure paths for cancer and he doesn’t forgive himself for letting her. (He said exactly these things to me, and you, in a thread on Facebook in which he ended by asking you never to bring me up again).

Eric has built a glass house out of old ideas, and it is a fine house indeed, but still made entirely out of old ideas and will break easily when stressed. And whatever you learned about physics 40 years ago has little to do with physics today. Physics, like all things, evolves, and rapidly in these times … and authentic evolution is as much a process of shedding concepts as it is bringing in new ones.

Seth says
nathan your introverted self reflective pedicures are astounding to behold

Si says
Please do not hook me up with Eric. He is solidly stuck in a very small box and I do not have a spiritual contract with him to pound on his box. I would not be good for him and would only irritate him to no end.

Si says
👍

Si says
That is a masterful complement! Thank you!  

Seth says
well whatever … but don’t expect me to buy your #Bullshit that repulsion is dependent on attraction.

Si says
Okay, stay in your box. You like it there. So be it. I will always pound when you turn left.  

Seth says
well you can take it as a complement as that is your want …
but it kind of does explain why some of your #LOA is not working here. 

You run only on your own self reflexive attraction … notwistanding that the #world does not.

Seth says
👍

Seth says
Conversation forked to thought 23005

Seth says
👍

Si says
Ahhh, but the world in fact does, and that is why I see things, and achieve results, that you do not.

One cannot fully engineer all effects possible to be experienced when one does not see clearly how repulsion is a special case of attraction.  

Seth says
Well the world does not work by attraction alone. 



You have certainly produced a real siny jewl in your statement above, “What is happening in Sweden? (comment 72707)”, #fabana
 

---

Out here in the #world to you,  i am must presume it is consistent with all of your beliefs. 
But to me it appears you are running away from a #edge that you wish (or presume) was not there.

Mark de LA says
I suspect anyone who says “the world works ….” or “the world does not work ….”  .. speaking a #birdie for the world.

Seth says
well everything i say is obviously just my opinion.  i am not so very sure that needs to always be emphasized as i talk.   statements that i make with no qualification of source i believe so firmly that i even think that all should believe the same … otherwise they should should tell me why. 

#birdie rejected #PML 

Mark de LA says
Yep, nice clue for me to ignore the rest of the comment though.  thanks!

Seth says
… please do, mark

Mark de LA says
Easier for you to stay in your own bubble, eh? 
Your please do “ignore you” means without anyone like me reading your comments you will remain in your bubble.  
nice rwg going over #nothing 
 XOR 

Seth says
Huh, mark?  what makes it easier for me to stay in my own bubble?  you really got me baffled on that one.

Are you are talking about the bubble of mutual agreement and cooperation?  If so, then yes obviously, it is the agreements inside that bubble that sustain it.  Bubbles, #ego’s and #groups are a great invention by God almighty … they are mini #edges … are they not?

Si says
It is very simple seth. People try and push things away all the time … it never works. One cannot repel something. Even physically pushing something away only energetically energizes it more to you. Argument is exactly that.

This extends fully into the physical properties of the world. We can mathematically represent repulsion, and for most things in math and engineering it works fine. But there are some things that cannot be obtained by modeling repulsion. Anti-gravity is one of those things and why we don’t have it yet as a culture. Gravity is one of the most pure representations of the #LOA in physical form, and anti-gravity cannot be fully understood until it is understood in terms of attraction only, not repulsion as people try and model it. Tesla knew this, and also knew that even electricity is mono-polar and his ideas were striken out of textbooks of the era by Edison and Rockefeller.

You have learned classic duality physics. You have not learned real physics.

Seth says
nathan.   i can see how #inside yourself that pushing things away never works.  That is how the Bashar video started … and yes i can see what that means and even apply it.

But you generalize that to the #world objectively.  That generalization is just a story.  That story is not consistent with my experience … or my knowledge of the world.   I really do think you need to do some research there which is not already biased by your faith in #WABBET’s

You could even look at it this way …
#EricReiter (and other knowledge) has been #manifested in your world …
try to push those away just as hard as you can

seth

Si says
Hey, realize I started there. You seem to forget that I went through Nuclear Power School where I became a master of classic physics and excelled at it. Along the way I noticed anomalies that the teachers seemed to simply ignore. Eventually I found the alternative schools and information teaching a bigger and more comprehensive model for our universe (Ouspensky was my first introduction).

Now, I have used these principles many times to actually do many things (not just theorize about them as you, and even Eric, are doing). Now I know for sure that classic physics is simply a smaller view, a box inside a box, of the real physics of reality. And the more I do apply the bigger physics, the more it works and expands my understanding, in every aspect of my life. Watch and see even more!  

And #BTW, even #GW understood this. Much of my early information came straight out of his library, especially my learnings about Tesla.

Seth says
fine, no problem.   i must presume whatever that is going on over there is what you want .  

me, i am really just concerned with what is happening over here …

which is in the #world to you.  it is not in yourself.

Si says
Well, you can crap and point at it and say it is not your shit all you want. I know it is.  Your shit is yours, mine is mine, the only place they mix is in the reflection we observe.

Mark de LA says
The “over here” vs “over there” thingies are worn out – just saying you both have an Ego & a point of view. Speaking for anything else is still a #birdie .

Seth says
i cant not figure out what your “it” refers to.

but tiz true that my shit is mine … and your shit is yours … if we need to parse out ownership.

re: “the only place they mix is in the reflection we observe”

… er, well they mix in the #world.   That sure seems like the best way for us to talk about our shit together.  I’m sorry, i love you, your way is far too confusing for a simple and direct man like myself.

Mark de LA says
Conversation forked to thought 23006

Si says
Well, now that I can agree with. These newer ideas are actually simpler if it would have been what you learned to start off with. But learning the classic understandings of reality, then unlearning them, and learning a whole different system that worked very different, was difficult even for me … much more difficult than learning the classic stuff to start off with even though that was no cake walk in school. I have spent many years coming to the new understanding.

I am helping teach the new way to children today so that they don’t have to go through all that. The new way is easier and more intuitive for them to learn too, which is easier for both of us … and giving them tools to take reality far beyond where it has gone before.  

Seth says
well, sorry to say, i think this new way has some flaws … maybe not the way itself … maybe just the way it is sometimes used in talking.  

Si says
Or maybe just in the way you are interpreting it without expanding your conceptions out to meet the fullness of it. If one were to try and put 20 gallons of milk in a container that was represented as a 15 gallon container in 2 dimensional space and a 20 gallon container in 3 dimensional space, there would appear to be flaws (i.e. disappearing milk) to anyone looking only in the 2 dimensional container.  

Si says
And incidentally. I think Eric is a cool guy with lots of talent and a great mind. I also think that he has some fears that keep his great mind shackled to a glass box of reality and for the most part, his ideas are very old school and will not be in the textbooks of the future. They are great in the realm of ideas, but they don’t obtain in actual advancing reality. That’s all. I don’t diss Eric … I simply see him as he is and enjoy what is to enjoy, like his musical instrument talent.   

Seth says
all the stuff you say about #EricReiter is shit that you are making up in your head.  
You do not see him as he is … that is a #LIE.  
You see him only in relationship to the shit you are making up about him   … 
most of which is wildly factually demonstrably false.

Pretty much just like you do with me. 

Si says
I may not know him as well as I know you seth. But I did read virtually everything he posted online about physics and have seen his FB offerings representing his life. That is what I have access to in order to draw upon and that’s quite a lot, especially his ideas which he well represented in his articles.

Si says
”most of which is wildly factually demonstrably false” ~ seth

That statement is wildly factually demonstratively false and more like the shitting upon that Mark does than anything else. It’s pure diatribe. I go to great lengths to show you the facts that represent the things I advocate. It is not my fault you do your left turns. The stuff I know works and works well. Much better than the old school stuff you are calling your facts. I can demonstrate what I teach over and over anytime anyone wishes me to.  

For whatever reason, you are simply bitter right now. It’s that simple.

Mark de LA says

Sweden Democrats: Trump was right